[pganapathy]

Originally Posted by Harshal.Bhosale

AFAIK, changes in wheelbase affect car handling/dynamics, and reducing overall length to below 4m in India provides tax benefits.

Clearly, none of these is the case for the Alto 800. Why then has the overall length been reduced? It also has the undesirable effect of endangering the rear hatch in case of a rear collision/bump. Any reasons (from MSIL's point of view)?

The simplest reason I can think of is Maruti is afraid that if they make the alto bigger and additionally throw in things like ABS and airbags, people will see no reason to buy cars like the a*, zen etc. As it is those two are sales failures and they are afraid the waggie and ritz will follow them there

[vikrantj]

Excellent review.
Few things that come to mind after reading this review. MSIL is more intrested in making the cars cheaper rather than safer. No firewalls insulations, either cng or airbags, no rear view mirrors.
Comparing this with a Nano , I find Nano well thought out car , designed and manufactured to give more bang for the buck.While this looks like MSIL RnD team was given a budget and incentives were offered to reduce the costs so they went all guns blazing omitting things.
Disappointed to say the least.

[SDP]

Originally Posted by SankalpDesai

Great review.

Wish I could say that for the car. I don't understand how do I describe this car. Let me take the help of a dictionary.

*Looks up the word Hideous in the dictionary* Aah, here are the right words -

hideous, grisly, grim, repellent, detestable, odious, monstrous, dreadful, appalling, ghastly

And as they say 'a picture is worth a thousand words', i will ask people to look at this car to understand the meaning of these words.

To prove my point, showed these pics of the new Alto 800 to my wife, and she exclaimed, "CHHEEE". Hence Proved.

A simple "The looks did not appeal to me" or "It looks bad" should have sufficed. By going overboard with negative adjectives, what exactly are we trying to prove here?

Freedom of expression is a great power and (even at the risk of sounding cliched,) with great power comes great responsibility.

Cheers!

[Sutripta]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

2. I know where the 45mm went in the rear. They removed the rear bumper overhang.

Any insights as to how/ why it is wider? Just the flared arches?

In the table given, weights would have been nice. And for dimensions/ weights for the M800, for comparison purposes.

I enjoy redlining the old F8. Wonder why this engine is not a joy to rev.

Upsized tyres:- what maximum size will fit in the spare wheel well?

A comparative ranking of the ACs pls.

Originally Posted by swarnava.m

Also, both the old Alto and the K10 have no rear quarter glass. The rear window runs all the way to the back, and this, IMHO, was a much better (though uncommon) design than the more popular one, with a quarter glass.

I assume the rear window rolls down completely.

Regards
Sutripta

[swarnava.m]

Originally Posted by Sutripta

I assume the rear window rolls down completely.

Regards
Sutripta

Probably, but in the old Alto also it rolled down 85-90%. I don't consider that as a major hindrance, but the design matters to me. Each one to his own, I guess.

[SankalpDesai]

Originally Posted by SDP

A simple "The looks did not appeal to me" or "It looks bad" should have sufficed. By going overboard with negative adjectives, what exactly are we trying to prove here?

Freedom of expression is a great power and (even at the risk of sounding cliched,) with great power comes great responsibility.

Cheers!

But are we not allowed to speak our minds? Doesn't Team-BHP stand for calling a spade, a spade. What's wrong in describing this car the way I feel about it? There are numerous pages about people brick-batting Alto's elder sibling the Ritz for its rear; while I absolutely love it. And it's not that I have criticized any person, not even Maruti, let alone any BHPian who owns or is planning to own this car.

P.S. If J.K.Rowling wouldn't have gone overboard with her eloquent way of writing, Harry Potter wouldn't have been a huge success that it is today. So let's just take those words as words and not draw any conclusions out of it.

[Harshal.Bhosale]

Originally Posted by pganapathy

The simplest reason I can think of is Maruti is afraid that if they make the alto bigger and additionally throw in things like ABS and airbags...

I see where this goes. So for them, its possibly about segmentation, right? Keeping the car in its intended buyer-segment, to prevent cannibalization of the upper models (Anyway its going to sell like hot-cakes).

But whatever, I sure would've loved to be in the room where the rear bumper was being designed, just to listen to the bloke who came up with this seemingly unreasonable idea!
"Hey, why don't we lop off the rear bumper? Who wants it anyways? And the most brilliant part is, if and when the customer crashes the car's derrière, it will translate into more revenue for our company since the rear hatch will have to be repaired!"
:stupid

[hothatchaway]

Originally Posted by xotiq

Excellent review, great photos as well.
As a second car, we had booked the Alto800 couple of days back. Which would you suggest between the Alto800 and Alto K10, mainly for city drives.

The K10 has a 1 L K Series engine which is Maruti's latest generation of petrol engines (also in the WR, A* and Estillo and the 1.2 l in the Swift and Ritz). The engine is extremely revv happy and given the high power to weight ratio in the K10 (it weighs only about 750 kilos or so), this is one fun to drive car.

However the punch really kicks in in open roads and if you just plan to putter around in the city then the 800 should do the trick which to my knowledge has better low end power making a difference in stop and go traffic. The premium you pay for K10 over the 800 is only for the more advanced engine as the interiors, build quality etc is nothing to write home about.

[informmaha]

Originally Posted by Nutty Nair

Actually, Maruti has given you all the best of the world - A star, Figo, etc although the outcome is debatable. If I want a base car, I'd prefer the old Alto or 800 to this. This car looks confused to me.

Where did figo come in from ? I quite do not agree with the best product quote here. They cannot be called the best and even are not very worst either. If you had tried the first generation zen and the zen estilo, then you would know how best or worst zen estilo is .. few reasons for maruti selling huge numbers is service backup and spareparts cost. Somehow I compare maruti in cars to nokia in the mobile world.. may be till 2008 or 9 nokia were not pushed strongly by any other companies so they were in an undisputed territory until samsung came in and turned things around. Same way maruti will also be challenged by some company in the future.. possibly hyundai since they are very close in terms of service backup and have competitive products as well. I do not know how many wil agree to this but there will be time when crash regulations become mandatory and we will come to know about the best products by then.

[needforspeed88]

What is more worrying for me is Maruti have persisted with the a nearly 2 decade old platform. So the safety aspect needs to be kept in mind. They may have made some minor upgrade on Engine intake manifold and use of light weight pistons with a slight bump in compression but you cannot run away from the fact that the engine also is a old hag. I find it hard to believe when Maruti says it took 4 years and 400 crores on the new Alto. They have strengthened the frame at some places and used all new body new panels but most of the components are carried over from the previous model. I have had my issues with Eon in terms of its pricing and the engine refinement but Eon looks suave and contemporary when compared to the new Alto. If Maruti has this half baked attitude towards their bread and butter model i am lost for words. When the Indian customer has shown so much faith by putting in his/her hard earned money on Maruti, they can at-least come up with something a bit more than old wine in a new bottle.

[pganapathy]

Originally Posted by Harshal.Bhosale

I see where this goes. So for them, its possibly about segmentation, right? Keeping the car in its intended buyer-segment, to prevent cannibalization of the upper models (Anyway its going to sell like hot-cakes).

But whatever, I sure would've loved to be in the room where the rear bumper was being designed, just to listen to the bloke who came up with this seemingly unreasonable idea!
"Hey, why don't we lop off the rear bumper? Who wants it anyways? And the most brilliant part is, if and when the customer crashes the car's derrière, it will translate into more revenue for our company since the rear hatch will have to be repaired!"
:stupid

There was a study done by VAG (iirc) which found that the variable cost differential between producing their small cars and big cars was €10,000, but the sale price difference was €40,000. Therefore margins on bigger cars exceed that of smaller cars. Maruti understands this and is following this logic. If the alto were to be well designed and equipped (abs, airbags, 1 ltr engine with low end torque etc) it might even cannibalize a few swift sales from a no kids couple looking for ease of use in city car.

Lopping off the rear bumper seems to me a looks wise move. They figured it looks better. Practicality took a back seat here.

My one concern with upsizing tyres is a bigger spare is unlikely to fit in the sparewell. I had this issue with my 800 in mozambique. I had 155/80/12 tyres on the car and 145/70/12 spare as the bigger one didn't fit inside. Maruti really need to consider a bigger gap there

[SDP]

Originally Posted by SankalpDesai

But are we not allowed to speak our minds? Doesn't Team-BHP stand for calling a spade, a spade. What's wrong in describing this car the way I feel about it? There are numerous pages about people brick-batting Alto's elder sibling the Ritz for its rear; while I absolutely love it. And it's not that I have criticized any person, not even Maruti, let alone any BHPian who owns or is planning to own this car.

P.S. If J.K.Rowling wouldn't have gone overboard with her eloquent way of writing, Harry Potter wouldn't have been a huge success that it is today. So let's just take those words as words and not draw any conclusions out of it.

Sankalp, you are definitely allowed to have your individual perspective and speak your mind. What I was hinting at was some "moderation" would have helped.

When I read your original post, something didn't quite feel right about it, that's why I quoted and commented. But your response also makes a lot of sense. Then I was wondering what was it that did not feel right in the first place.

Quickly re-visited the TBHP rules thread:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/announ...e-posting.html

Nothing there! Seems to follow all the rules, then what was it?
Then I found another thread about expected-posting-etiquette.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/announ...etiquette.html

Expected Posting Etiquette
....
7) Be polite!
Please avoid making statements or sweeping generalizations that could offend other readers. There is always a polite way to get your point across.
Bad: Enzo owners are ignorant fools if they think they own the world's fastest car.
Good: Enzo owners are clearly misinformed if they think they own the world's fastest car.

And that's what I did not feel right about the original post. Extreme opinions and words would invariably offend someone or the other. So a certain amount of caution and control while expressing such emotions is highly advised.

Disclaimer:- Nothing personal. Nothing against you. Just that one post was perceived as slightly harsh. Again, I could be completely wrong and being oversensitive.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

What you’ll like:

• A much improved Alto at the same price point
• F8D engine has excellent driveability & fuel economy. Neat gearshift too
• Comfortable ride quality. Soft suspension is absorbent
• Convenient city car: Light, agile & easy to drive
• Effective air-conditioner
• Driver-side airbag & factory fitted CNG kit available
• Maruti's excellent after-sales service & fuss free ownership experience

What you won’t:

• Cramped rear bench. Also, the seatback is very short
• Thin, budget seats offer basic levels of support
• CNG kit for base variant costs a hefty Rs. 75,000 (LXi's CNG kit is a realistic Rs. 57,000)
• Mediocre expressway competence. Best driven <100 kph
• Puny 145 mm tyres. An upgrade is highly recommended
• Lacks the design appeal of the Hyundai Eon

Thanks Anshuman and GTO, for the crisp review. I would also expect a face-to-face comparison between the new and old Alto.

[nkrishnap]

Top notch review as always. A well deserved 5 Star rating.

In one of the pictures, there seems to be too much of a gap at the rear hatch (dikki). Was it open or the gap is that much prominent?

ABS again atleast in the top end Lxi atleast

[Harshal.Bhosale]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

In one of the pictures, there seems to be too much of a gap at the rear hatch (dikki). Was it open or the gap is that much prominent?

If you mean the shut line of the boot/rear hatch, it actually is that much. Even I didn't like it, but anyway its a minor detail. The bottom line (along the rear bumper is fine, most cars have a finger-width space anyway, but I feel the hatch should've hugged the tail lamps more closely. But then again, that would be expecting Germanic levels of precision from Japs!