[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by hkollar

Ugh. One month on, my E2O window wiper doesn't do the water spray anymore. The motor seems to work and water tank is full, but water is not sprayed...

The spray nozzle is probably clogged. Quite a common problem on cars, especially if the water used is hard.

Try disconnecting from the nozzle and seeing if it sprays. If it does, then just clean your nozzle with a toothpick and perhaps some solvent/detergent.

EDIT: Also check there's no kink/bend in the tube blocking the water flow.

[kaviprem]

Another stupid problem with E2O nozzle is that the direction in which sprays water. Its always the near by vehicles get the spray than its own windshield !
I need to check on it myself.

Prem.

[hkollar]

Started hearing a strange (but feeble) noise from the back of E2O. It happens only when the car is in motion, i.e. must be either the shocks or some spring action... Irritating...

[goingelectric]

@kaviprem: If you stay towards hosur beyond Bommanahalli the water is pretty hard. I've had my Brio's nozzle get salted and stuck using water from the taps in my apartment. I've since started using bottled mineral water and the problem hasn't surfaced again.

@hkollar: Is it a grinding noise (probably transmission related) or a kat-kat-kat (suspension related) noise? Either which ways, I'd suggest calling the service guys and having a word. Had a friend who owned the old Revai (albeit, 3rd hand) which suffered from both these issues at different times in it's life.

[hkollar]

Originally Posted by goingelectric

@hkollar: Is it a grinding noise (probably transmission related) or a kat-kat-kat (suspension related) noise? Either which ways, I'd suggest calling the service guys and having a word. Had a friend who owned the old Revai (albeit, 3rd hand) which suffered from both these issues at different times in it's life.

I do hear Grinding noise when the AC begins to function, but that disappears after a few minutes.

This is different noise. This is more like a creaky spring noise from rear. Perhaps suspension. I have owned many cars, never had such troubles in any other car within 2 months of purchase. VERY DISAPPOINTED WITH MAHINDRA-REVA.

WARNING FOR NEW BUYERS:

So, Have come to one conclusion - E2O, as with most Indian products, is of rotten quality. The build quality is so poor, I won't advice this car to a friend, as he'll blame me later! Unless one is very keen to have Electric Car right away, one is better off waiting for better manufacturers like Nissan.

And if one must go for Reva, bargain hard for an upfront discount. Now, they are not offering any discount just giving the govt. incentives. But, do not fall for that - The guys will give Minimum 1Lakh discount (as I found to my expense). i.e. Today they are selling the car for 5.2Lakhs in their battery lease scheme (After govt. incentive of 1.23lakhs now). They were having the same car at a price point of 6.14L in Jan-Feb 2015. But, they were offering discounts of 1L. So, after govt. incentive of Rs.1.23Lakhs, one should tell them they won't pay more than 4lakhs for the car under lease program. Or 5.8Lakhs in outright purchase.

They will come around and offer it, if you wait for a 2-3 months. Few folks, I know have got Rs.1.5Lakh discount in Feb itself. Even before Govt. incentives, and govt. incentive is not company discount. They have scope for reducing the price to 4Lakhs after govt. incentive, and one should force them to sell it for that. Don't be fooled like I was.

Having owned this for nearly 3 months now, I can say this - This car quality is not very good. You'll start hearing weird noises, some small things will not work as it should, the entertainment system is a disgrace, some poor chinese knockoff, that doesn't sound good at all. Suspension is bad enough to make for a bumpy ride. Seats are not comfortable.

So this car certainly doesn't deserve a premium electric drive price, because it compromises in all other aspects. So, One should squeeze for all the price discounts one can get if one wants to buy it.

But, having said all that should you buy a electric car? If you are passionate about green environment - then a BIG YES. The only reason you may want to go for it right now, instead of waiting for better Electric drives.

Otherwise, If you just want a small automatic city car, there are other well built small car alternatives - Alto-AMT perhaps or Celerio-AMT.

Am I regretting the decision to buy E2O? YES.

I wanted an electric car - that I am not regretting. But, I regret that there are no better electric options in India, other than this poor quality car. I am not sure how long the battery or electric drive lasts, but I suspect the body itself will develop all forms of rattle within a year or two, and will make me irritated enough to throw out this car.

[samabhi]

Originally Posted by hkollar

This is different noise. This is more like a creaky spring noise from rear. Perhaps suspension. I have owned many cars, never had such troubles in any other car within 2 months of purchase. VERY DISAPPOINTED WITH MAHINDRA-REVA.

WARNING FOR NEW BUYERS:

So, Have come to one conclusion - E2O, as with most Indian products, is of rotten quality. The build quality is so poor, I won't advice this car to a friend, as he'll blame me later! Unless one is very keen to have Electric Car right away, one is better off waiting for better manufacturers like Nissan.


Having owned this for nearly 3 months now, I can say this - This car quality is not very good. You'll start hearing weird noises, some small things will not work as it should, the entertainment system is a disgrace, some poor chinese knockoff, that doesn't sound good at all. Suspension is bad enough to make for a bumpy ride. Seats are not comfortable.

So this car certainly doesn't deserve a premium electric drive price, because it compromises in all other aspects. So, One should squeeze for all the price discounts one can get if one wants to buy it.

But, having said all that should you buy a electric car? If you are passionate about green environment - then a BIG YES. The only reason you may want to go for it right now, instead of waiting for better Electric drives.

Otherwise, If you just want a small automatic city car, there are other well built small car alternatives - Alto-AMT perhaps or Celerio-AMT.

Am I regretting the decision to buy E2O? YES.

I wanted an electric car - that I am not regretting. But, I regret that there are no better electric options in India, other than this poor quality car. I am not sure how long the battery or electric drive lasts, but I suspect the body itself will develop all forms of rattle within a year or two, and will make me irritated enough to throw out this car.

I totally agree with your views that the car is not of good build quality and there are many areas that it lacks basic comfort levels. At times, I ask myself if I made a correct decision buying this car, rather than waiting or looking for alternatives. Jotting down some of the factors that made me to buy the car and how its served me so far.

ELECTRIC Car factor : A big yes.

Automatic Transmission : A big yes.

Comfort Levels : Negative. My dad wont even like to sit in this car.

Price factor : Neutral --> Negative. At the time when I bought this car, my only alternative in this price bracket with automatic transmission is Maruti Celerio and I didnt like this car at all. I paid 6.32Lakhs for the e2o and the Celerio LXI AMT is available at 5.20 Lakhs. Considering the fuel expenses and maintenance charges to be minimal to almost negligible for e2o, I felt the 1 Lakh odd premium I am paying for e2o can be recovered over a period of time. I intend to use this car for a longer period. And of all my biggest fears, whether this car would last so long???

Purpose of buying : A big positive. This car is solely meant to be used by wife for her daily commute to office and weekend city usage with the kids. Considering that, e2o ticks all my major requirements.

Whether I regret my decision in buying an e2o? Yes, sometimes when I drive the car, I feel that way. But when I look at the other positive things, I feel may be its not a bad decision after all.

I still feel that Mahindra Reva could have done a better job with the car at the current price its being offered. I wouldn't mind paying that extra premium if they offered better refinement levels with the overall quality of the car. Blaming entirely on the Government for lack of subsidies is not correct. And yes, as you said with the current FAME discount, they should include the additional discounts and make it more feasible for those interested to buy this car.

[hkollar]

Originally Posted by samabhi

I totally agree with your views that the car is not of good build quality and there are many areas that it lacks basic comfort levels. At times, I ask myself if I made a correct decision buying this car, rather than waiting or looking for alternatives. Jotting down some of the factors that made me to buy the car and how its served me so far.

ELECTRIC Car factor : A big yes.

Automatic Transmission : A big yes.

Comfort Levels : Negative. My dad wont even like to sit in this car.

Price factor : Neutral --> Negative. At the time when I bought this car, my only alternative in this price bracket with automatic transmission is Maruti Celerio and I didnt like this car at all. I paid 6.32Lakhs for the e2o and the Celerio LXI AMT is available at 5.20 Lakhs. Considering the fuel expenses and maintenance charges to be minimal to almost negligible for e2o, I felt the 1 Lakh odd premium I am paying for e2o can be recovered over a period of time. I intend to use this car for a longer period. And of all my biggest fears, whether this car would last so long???

Purpose of buying : A big positive. This car is solely meant to be used by wife for her daily commute to office and weekend city usage with the kids. Considering that, e2o ticks all my major requirements.

Whether I regret my decision in buying an e2o? Yes, sometimes when I drive the car, I feel that way. But when I look at the other positive things, I feel may be its not a bad decision after all.

I still feel that Mahindra Reva could have done a better job with the car at the current price its being offered. I wouldn't mind paying that extra premium if they offered better refinement levels with the overall quality of the car. Blaming entirely on the Government for lack of subsidies is not correct. And yes, as you said with the current FAME discount, they should include the additional discounts and make it more feasible for those interested to buy this car.

Here is another thing I missed out in the earlier mail - My wife had taken the car to Alliance Francaise where the parking is at deep basement, with a steep incline. While trying to climb back, even in boost mode E2O would give up!After two attempts, she had to reverse all the way back and gain speed and come at high speed on the incline (like a fast bowler). She was telling me she won't feel confident to ever take the car to a place with steep inclines after that experience!

Bottomline is - Reva E2O is the Nano of electric cars. The focus was to make the cheapest car possible - not the most competent car at a 'good value'.

Indian buyers flipped the bird at Tata for thinking of them as Cheapo! They queued up to buy Altos or Eons even at a higher cost instead at slightly higher cost.

Moral of the story: Do not short change your customers. Don't take them for idiots. And do not devalue your own product by putting a cheap show, the offering huge discounts and pulling the wool over customers eye. You'll get bad mouth publicity and no one will touch your product.

Instead try offering a competent & VFM product - even at a higher cost. How much would it have cost Mahindra to put a competent entertainment system? Another 10K. Alternatively, leave out the ICE and let customer put one that suits him!!

How about better seating? A good suspension? Are they too expensive to do?

Similarly, why crimp on fit & finish? How much would it cost to make this car more competent all around? About a lakh more? That money people would gladly pay, instead of your stupid, deceptive discounts. They take customers for maximum they can get away with, like MRP vs street value. Everytime a customer learns they were offered way less discount than what someone else was offered, they know they got cheated in VALUE and sold a low value product at higher price.

Sadly, These lessons seem lost on Indian car companies.

What matters to customer the most? - THE VALUE, REALIABILITY, SERVICE, and after that comes COST.

Hope someone comes up with a good electric product in a year or two, when I may need to dump this and go for another one.

Only time I am glad to have E2O is when it is not moving at all!! i.e. When I halt at traffic - knowing I am not emitting CO2 while using A/C & when I need to park in tight spaces!

E2O is going the nano way - not enough sales. They may try some stunts (like double door) etc. But, to sell either they have to provide VALUE - cut prices heavily (way beyond govt. subsidy) or they need to offer far better car at the same price.

[TheDesertRat]

Originally Posted by hkollar

E2O is going the nano way - not enough sales. They may try some stunts (like double door) etc. But, to sell either they have to provide VALUE - cut prices heavily (way beyond govt. subsidy) or they need to offer far better car at the same price.

It appears M&M paid attention to this. Prices have been slashed by INR 92,000 as reported in the TOI article today.

[hkollar]

Originally Posted by TheDesertRat

It appears M&M paid attention to this. Prices have been slashed by INR 92,000 as reported in the TOI article today.

Sadly, M&M is trying to pull a wool over customer's eye!!

Govt. has provided 1.24Lakh subsidy. Out of which it appears only Rs.92K is being passed on. From what I saw the On road price in delhi is Rs4.79 lakh. Delhi govt. provides additional subsidy to Electric vehicles and also doesn't have as much tax as other places.

In Delhi the fully bought out car will cost Rs. 6.6Lakhs on Road (Adding the battery cost to the above).


How is that much different from their previous pricing? They were selling it for about that much even before after their discounts.


The price of this car should be calculated this way:

1. Cost of Electric drive : Rs.1,00,000, including Motor, inverter and charger circuits.

2. Cost of Battery : Rs. 1,80,000/-

3. Cost of rest of the car itself: Rs.1,00,000.


Thus, their manufacturing cost should be around Rs.3,80,000/-


So, if there are no taxes/excise, and they also receive subsidies on tip, There is no reason why they can't sell this car at around 4.8Lakhs in Delhi fully bought out Battery. Or About Rs.3,00,000/- under battery lease scheme.

How do we calculate that?

An Alto sells at Rs.3Lakhs without any subsidy, with far better body, interior etc. An electric vehicle only differs in the electric drive, rest of the car (Body, Wheels, seats, steering, Meters, windows etc) exist in both.


So, How much more do you pay for electric drive vis-a-vis a ECI? Perhaps double of what the ECI costs. Considering half the cost of Alto goes towards the Engine & Transmission. The cost of Electric Drive & battery perhaps should be about 3Lakhs in E2O. This bears out from the fact that a 25HP motor and Battery costs along with electronics will be only that much.

So, If they are getting 1.24Lakh subsidy. The entire electric drive (except the Battery) is already paid out by the govt.

The battery is being paid out by the customer under their Energy price (Lease scheme of Rs.3000/month).

So, what are you paying Rs.4,72,000/- ??? Especially in Delhi where there are further subsidies & tax exemptions??

Certainly not for fantastic build quality, interiors and fit & finish. Tesla Model S or Nissan leaf are priced high because they have cabin and build that is better than their class of vehicles.

Tesla Model S can compete with Audi A7 or Mercedes CLS550 and still is priced around the same class!

Nissan Leaf has all the characteristics of a top notch super hatchback, provides better cabin, safety and ride than same sized Hatchbacks, and is yet priced only about 30% more. These are before the US tax credits (which make it as cheap as regular cars).

So, Why should an Alto cost Rs.3lakhs in India, while E2O costs Rs.6.5Lakhs?


I can only think of Profits & inefficiencies. If M&M is serious about this vehicle it should bring down the price by another 1.5Lakh rupees. i.e. About 3Lakhs with battery lease scheme.

[samabhi]

Originally Posted by hkollar

Sadly, M&M is trying to pull a wool over customer's eye!!

Govt. has provided 1.24Lakh subsidy. Out of which it appears only Rs.92K is being passed on. From what I saw the On road price in delhi is Rs4.79 lakh. Delhi govt. provides additional subsidy to Electric vehicles and also doesn't have as much tax as other places.

In Delhi the fully bought out car will cost Rs. 6.6Lakhs on Road (Adding the battery cost to the above).


How is that much different from their previous pricing? They were selling it for about that much even before after their discounts.

After the FAME subsidy, the discount being given on e2o is Rs 1.24L, not 92k.

Onroad price in Bangalore for T2 model is :

- Rs 5,27,789 + Rs 2999 per month with GFHE Scheme
- Rs 7,14,541 Full purchase without any scheme

The discounts being offered before FAME is actually more and the buyer should get more discount.

[kaviprem]

Originally Posted by hkollar

Tesla Model S can compete with Audi A7 or Mercedes CLS550 and still is priced around the same class!

Nissan Leaf has all the characteristics of a top notch super hatchback, provides better cabin, safety and ride than same sized Hatchbacks, and is yet priced only about 30% more. These are before the US tax credits (which make it as cheap as regular cars).

So, Why should an Alto cost Rs.3lakhs in India, while E2O costs Rs.6.5Lakhs?


I can only think of Profits & inefficiencies. If M&M is serious about this vehicle it should bring down the price by another 1.5Lakh rupees. i.e. About 3Lakhs with battery lease scheme.

I can certainly see that you are clearly unsatisfied with your E2O purchase and taking every instance to pick on them.

To me, if someone defined their requirement right and decided on E2O, then there can not be any distress after that unless one gets a lemon.

I would like to wait and see how the NISSAN Leaf and TELSA cars are priced when they actually launch these in India.

Prem.

[samabhi]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

I would like to wait and see how the NISSAN Leaf and TELSA cars are priced when they actually launch these in India.

Prem.

I can guarantee that we will be looking at prices above 15L for the Nissan and 50L for the Tesla.

[hkollar]

Originally Posted by samabhi

After the FAME subsidy, the discount being given on e2o is Rs 1.24L, not 92k.

Onroad price in Bangalore for T2 model is :

- Rs 5,27,789 + Rs 2999 per month with GFHE Scheme
- Rs 7,14,541 Full purchase without any scheme

The discounts being offered before FAME is actually more and the buyer should get more discount.

I got my car in Feb at a price of Rs.7.52Lakhs (battery bought out) on road (Bangalore).

So, if they are to pass on Govt. subsidy, for a full price (with battery). The price should be about 6.2Lakhs on road.

I know they offered upto 1.5lakh discounts to people I know. In my case the discunt was just Rs.50Lakhs. So, they were selling the car at nearly 1lakh less than the price I got in Feb.

So, if they are to offer true value the car should now be about Rs.5lakhs. And the battery lease scheme should be about 3.2lakhs.

they should do away with this non-transparent discounts... Instead, just price it right.

Originally Posted by kaviprem

I can certainly see that you are clearly unsatisfied with your E2O purchase and taking every instance to pick on them.

To me, if someone defined their requirement right and decided on E2O, then there can not be any distress after that unless one gets a lemon.

I would like to wait and see how the NISSAN Leaf and TELSA cars are priced when they actually launch these in India.

Prem.

Yes Indeed. You are right. I am dissatisfied.

I had misgivings about the car even before purchasing. My misgivings were posted in this forum even before I bought the car. And they remain. But, since there weren't any other electric drives coming in and I was waiting for years now, I got impatient and jumped in.

But, my unhappiness is largely with the fit/finish & quality of the car. It is my experience after the purchase of the car.

I am also dismayed with the terrible practice of Mahindra Reva of overpricing the car, and selling with unclear, non-transparent, negotiated discount model. It is almost like negotiating for a used car - no way of knowing what is the true value of the car. You have to bargain hard, like in fish market to get the right price. You can ofcourse not bargain and overpay, but then you get even worser value.

To protect myself from such devaluation, I had taken a written commitment from Mahindra Reva that they would compensate me if Govt. announces a subsidy effectively before march, that is in excess of the discount they extended to me. Our Finance minister announced a incentive scheme in Feb 28th budget.

However, Mahindra refuses to extend that to me - Their logic seems to be that the subsidy came in to effect in April (New financial year). But, the commitment was to protect against devaluation of car in case of subsidy. It appears they are spoiling for a legal fight now, instead of standing by their commitment in spirit. I have escalated within Mahindra, before resorting to legal notice & action.

In any case, I came to know after my purchase in Feb, that many others were given over 1lakh of discount in the same week as my purchase. All it took was holding out, and bargaining hard. Effectively I overpaid by for the car and wanted to warn others of such disgusting practice by mahindra reva. if a car manufacturer is giving up to 20% discounts on bargaining, something is wrong with the pricing.

I agree the car does some things right - compact size and zippy Boost mode making for easy negotiating of city traffic. Something even Nissan Leaf won't provide. But, I think the new Nano-AMT will provide similar nifty drive, if one is willing to put up with niggles/noise/quality issues.

So - it all comes down to wanting to own a electric drive specifically, (not just small automatic).

So, my posts are largely to warn others who are thinking of buying E2O of potential downsides.

I won't call my car a lemon, but I certainly didn't get a mango..

[Astleviz]

Originally Posted by hkollar

I won't call my car a lemon, but I certainly didn't get a mango..

The problem seems to be more a case of unrealistic expectations on your part than the car itself. You expected mangoes for the price of lemons and are now dissatisfied because the lemons aren't sweet. let me elucidate-

1. First of all, the Nissan Leaf is not priced 30% over similar hatchbacks, the figure is more like 70-80%. In US the Leaf starts at $29,860 (18 lakh INR) before the Federal and state rebates that add up to almost $10,000. If similar rebates were available in India, the e20 would cost almost nothing to own.
http://www.nissanusa.com/buildyourni...ination=colors

2. Calling the Leaf a super hatchback is an exaggeration. It is no more spacious or safer than a Focus or a Golf. A 110 hp motor pulling a 1500kg car hardly qualifies as a super hatch. It is an electric commuter that just about gets the work done.

3. Your point of the e20 not being value for money (or overpriced for what it offers) would have been valid if there was any other car manufacturer in the world that was offering a better product for the same amount of money. I can't think of one. Sure, the e20 is a compromise, so is a Leaf if you look at what similar amount of money gets you in the US.

4. The reason to buy an electric car today is not to save money or to save the planet but to experience electric drives. The e20 provides that experience for very little money as compared to any other alternate in the world. If you want a no compromise electric experience, you have the Tesla which most people can't afford anyway. Now that you are dissatisfied with your e20, let's see what other options you have today to experience an electric car in India. Import a Leaf from UK (where it starts at 21.5L INR before govt. incentives) and pay almost 45-50L INR for a 110 hp hatchback and be on your own when it comes to maintaining the car. Or wait for Nissan to launch it here and still pay close to 40-50L INR since it will come in as a CBU. To me a 6L INR e20 suddenly feels a lot more VFM than a 40L INR Leaf ever will be, at least in India for the next decade or so.

Yes, an e20 is a cheap electric car that shows. Because that's what it was meant to be, the world's cheapest electric car. When Maruti or Nissan or any other car maker offers a better car for similar money, we can all deride an e20 for being overpriced but till then it is the most VFM "electric car" available to us, despite all it's shortcomings and niggles.

[hkollar]

Originally Posted by Astleviz

The problem seems to be more a case of unrealistic expectations on your part than the car itself. You expected mangoes for the price of lemons and are now dissatisfied because the lemons aren't sweet.

The minimum expectation one has from a car is for it not to break down after just 3 days of use (100km on odo), as it happened in my case.

The car wouldn't move, from where I had parked. It had gone to eco mode, while driving, and when I stopped to check what was happening, it stopped moving all together. The SOC would show 0%, while the car-entertainment console was showing 80%. I had only driven about 14km from full charge.

Their 24/7 tech support couldn't reach the system remotely. They asked me to plug it in power source. So, Me and my wife had to push a 3 day old car to get it near to my house (luckily it stopped not too far from my house), and get an extension wire to plug it in.

That didn't solve the problem. They told me they don't have engineers to attend to problem the same day, and would send someone as soon as they can. Next day I escalated the problem to Chetan Maini, who assured the problem would be rectified.

The car stood outside of my house on the pavement for next day and a half.
On 3rd day their engineers came, ripped the circuits apart, took some 3 hours to fix the problem. It did work, but seriously spoiled my appreciation for the product.

Here is an extract of the mail I received from their tech (10th Feb):

"We have studied the problem and it has been traced to a bad contact in the power supply circuit from our wiring harness manufacturer".


Now, It spoiled my faith in the car's reliability, I would've expected all the spares to go through a QC before finding place in a car.

However, I didn't face the same issue again. So, perhaps that is indeed a one off case. But, I have been having smaller issues with the car, and am so dismayed with the lack of reasonable quality.

Is it too much to expect that from a manufacturer?

--

Regarding the pricing of Leaf vs Focus.

Nissan sells at about US$24K at their showroom - This is before the federal tax credits of US$10,000/- which is directly provided to tax payer.

http://www.nissanofbowie.com/new/Nis...bc699d2168.htm

If you shave of 30% from $24,000, it comes to about US$16,800. Which is about what the Ford focus costs. This is before tax-credits of Leaf.

And Leaf is a bit bigger than focus hatch.


Reduce 30% from the showroom price of E2O. The outright street value of E2O was Rs.8,02,000/- in Bangalore. They were offering varying discounts, but more like Rs. 7,02,000 to Rs. 7,52,000 (as in my case). This is before the Govt. FAME subsidy kicked in, which ideally they should pass on to user (they do not). Now reduce 30% from 7Lakhs. That comes to about Rs.5Lakhs.

Now compare if E2O stands up to a 5lakh rupee car, say like Celerio. Either in quality, reliability, fit & finish, comfort & space.

Nissan Leaf compares very well (and exceeds Ford focus), In fact, feels more powerful (I have driven both).

--

You made it sound as if I shouldn't expect a Mango when I pay for a new car.

So, Should I have been expecting a lemon from Mahindra Reva?

I knew I was compromising in my expectations in buying E2O. But, those compromises were about small car, fiber body, cramped interiors. Not about quality. That rankles me. Especially when I was made to overpay than others.
---

The only reason Leaf will cost 40L in India is if they import it and govt. charges the usual 110% on it.

If they manufacture in India, they should be able to offer it at a competent Rs.15Lakhs (for a car with 8year battery guarantee). Especially because Govt. doesn't have any duty on Lithium-ion cells used in EVs.