Mahindra Reva e2o : Official Review

[naveenroy]

Love the report. Though I would love to own one (though electricity isn't clean energy), I just cannot get myself to get over the cost of the vehicle.

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by Jeash.vk

I am looking forward to a day when the EVs in India can do a 200+ KM on single charge and can accommodate 4 adults with a couple of kids.

I've been following the Tesla story for quite a while now, and in the recent few months since the launch of the Tesla S, quite a lot of cool things have happened.

• Charge 1/2 the battery in just 30 minutes with the "Supercharge" stations that are being set up across the USA
• Supercharge stations are free, and are always located near points of interest (eg. Mall, Food stop on the highway, etc)
• TwinCharger (optional add-on) doubles the charging speed of the Tesla S

With infrastructure like this, you effectively cut down the need for a massive battery pack -- which cuts down on weight and cost, and improves performance too.

Originally Posted by cjrao

As an option, wouldn't it be nice to review the option of having a silent power generator running on gasoline attached to this car?

Not sure what the exact reason is for not doing something like this: Cost, noise, space, fumes, lack of full-electric subsidies, or diluting the "pure-EV" image.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

For many people, city commute is about 10-15kms one way. This car makes perfect sense.

The interesting thing is that it would make even more sense if someones 1-way running was 30-35 kms daily. As that would make them recover costs a lot faster due to the extremely low running costs per km, and still keep them in the range-safe zone.

Originally Posted by lavish_n

My question is in the lower 'T0' variant, if we get Audio systems (additional accessories) from after market place, will that have any complications in the warranty?

Probably not. Its just like any other car. As long as you don't cut wires you should be okay. I'd imagine even the T0 variant has a harness that your aftermarket audio system would plug into.

However, that said, I think for the Rs. ~30-36 k price difference, the T2 variant does sound like a good deal for the additional goodies you get (4 JBL speakers, touchscreen, GPS, reverse camera, USB, etc). This is of course assuming that the sound quality is indeed good.

cya
R

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by karan561

What in case of a breakdown (i.e. Zero Battery) when the car is to be towed away.

I'm not sure! Wondered about this myself.

I don't think towing would damage it in any way. It might even re-charge the battery (since it is just like re-generative braking)

Originally Posted by karan561

If it rolls in any gear then wont it keep rolling on if parked & one forgets to pull up the handbrake ?

Yep, as mentioned here :

Originally Posted by Rehaan

• When you park on a hill, you're relying ONLY on your hand brake. Unlike conventional cars, the transmission provides no resistance here. This lack of a double braking mechanism can be scary for people like me, whose permanent parking spot is on an incline.

An interesting thing about standard DC electric motors is that if you short both terminals together, it effectively locks the motor from turning. That would be cool in a case like this -- but the e2o (and every other advanced EV) uses brushless induction motors which don't behave the same way.

cya
R

[Jeash.vk]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

I've been following the Tesla story for quite a while now, and in the recent few months since the launch of the Tesla S, quite a lot of cool things have happened.

• Charge 1/2 the battery in just 30 minutes with the "Supercharge" stations that are being set up across the USA
• Supercharge stations are free, and are always located near points of interest (eg. Mall, Food stop on the highway, etc)
• TwinCharger (optional add-on) doubles the charging speed of the Tesla S

With infrastructure like this, you effectively cut down the need for a massive battery pack -- which cuts down on weight and cost, and improves performance too.

I have been following some of the Tesla stories too on US Tech forums. The car looks great - you wouldnt say it was an EV just by looking at it. I also read an article which talked about a review done by NYT on Tesla S. The estimated range was 265 miles!! Ignoring the fact that the reviewer ended up stranded and that a chain of claims and counter claims ensued between NYT and Tesla - Anything close to that 250 miles (which is 400 KMs) with a car as spacious as the Tesla S would mean serious competition is on.

Yes - the cost would be astronomical, but with time and technology becoming more accessible, it should be well within the reach of Indian public. I wish I was around to see that happening

[MotoNanu]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

With infrastructure like this, you effectively cut down the need for a massive battery pack -- which cuts down on weight and cost, and improves performance too.



Not sure what the exact reason is for not doing something like this: Cost, noise, space, fumes, lack of full-electric subsidies, or diluting the "pure-EV" image.

Tesla story is magical. All credit to Elon Musk for that! He loves his product like his own babies and his vision is genius. There are in fact batteries available for xEVs which can charge up to 80% in 10 minutes! So definitely there is a lot of work going towards this technology and lets hope the same batteries can be fitted down the line after 5 years of ownership.

IMO, the reason for not fitting in a gasoline powered motor would be the change in overall architecture of the vehicle. It is a lot more complex to handle the system when such components are introduced. Also, since Reva-i was already on the same lines, e2o is evolved from that stage. Makes sense from an product line POV.

[Thilak29]

any indications on the cost of getting vehicle charged at charging stations?

[Rehaan]

Originally Posted by MotoNanu

...lets hope the same batteries can be fitted down the line after 5 years of ownership.

This is an excellent point, and something that hasn't been touched upon in this thread as yet...

Batteries could be swapped out easily. The same way as the Reva also came with both a Ni-Cd version and a Li-Ion version (if i'm not mistaken) - greatly increasing range and reducing weight.

One month from now, if they find an ideal supercapacitor storage, Mahindra should be able to integrate it into the e2o easily and reap all the benefits. Whether they'll extend the offer to existing customers is questionable though!

Originally Posted by MotoNanu

...IMO, the reason for not fitting in a gasoline powered motor would be the change in overall architecture of the vehicle....

Definitely. It's not designed for an internal combustion engine.

The reply of mine you quoted was in regards to having a portable gen-set in the car that could run on fuel and charge the battery when needed.

cya
R

[freakmuzik]

That's one fantastic report! Loved reading it throughout!

And I seriously had my doubts regarding this car prior to its launch but after reading this review, I'm definitely one Reva fan!! Mahindra is taking bold moves and hopefully doing it in a good way too. The interiors look good and functional and are feature laden.

Regarding the range, when I compare it to my Nano according to my daily use, a full charge should last for 2 to 3 days, which ain't bad considering you have a simple option of recharging it at your home! Still, a little better range would have increased the sense of "Peace of mind" for the general public.

I only wish that the government provided subsidies to the components imported and to such cars itself. And with the wide dealership and service network of Mahindra and some strong campaigning, I think people might easily get attracted to this car.

Things I wish for in the near future:
1) A price tag close to 5.5 for the top-end
2) Improved range
3) Cheaper solar panel kit
4) Better campaigning as I still haven't seen anything in the newspapers or Tv

Sad that the govt: is so slow to react such innovative measures by home-grown companies. A lower price tag would have elated the initial mass response itself I feel.
All the very best , Mahindra-Reva!!

[Mpower]

Brilliant work Rehaan & Parrys. Having seen the comical looking Reva I was not too excited about the E20 but I must say this review has tempered my skepticism to a large extent. This car is a lot more practical and livable. 70-80 miles is pretty good range for a typical Indian city.

What remains to be seen is battery life and general reliability of the car.

Reminds me very much of the Think EV which was sold in Europe briefly.

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Why would such a small car cost so much? Well, my best guess would be a mix of un-harnessed economies of scale, expensive imported batteries, heavy taxes and lack of subsidies...all adding up. Delhi offers a 29% subsidy on electric cars. Other states haven't followed suit yet. It's unclear if the Central Government has a subsidy planned, even though talks have been happening for years now.

Battery cost are still high even for a car sold in the US. I can only imagine how it gets multiplied for IDM.

Quite a feat that despite this, the E20 manages to be the cheapest BEV in the world (??)

13" Alloy wheels wrapped with 155/70 R13 low rolling-resistance Hankook Optimo K715 rubber:

Alloys look really familiar (Neo?). Is the LRR tire specially made for the E20 or is it available in the market for all cars?

A comparison to help put the size of the e2o in perspective. Remember that the Nano is very tall for its size:

Great picture and helps puts things into perspective. In fact the E20 is so much bigger than the Reva that is makes a case for both to co-exist. I would envision the Reva can be further stripped to make it a really low cost EV

Styling is intentionally aggressive (big grille, wheel flares) I suppose to help eliminate the Geeky image that the Reva was burdened with

Unlike the monocoque construction of all other hatchbacks (where the body shell is the primary structural element), the e2o is built upon a steel tubular-frame instead.

First Indian hatch with this architecture was the Sipani Dolphin (FRP body)

The e2o has another weight saving trick. It does not use metallic body panels. Each and every one of the car's body panels is made from ABS-plastic. It’s the same stuff that items like suitcases, construction hats and toothbrushes are made of.

IIRC, the Honda Dio which is a popular scooter also uses similar body panels. So there is some knowledge out there when it comes to repair techniques.

When I was alone in the car, the rear wheels would jump off speed breakers with a loud thud, like they were attempting suicide - even at slow speeds.*

Seems like the rear suspension has not been tuned properly. Rear shocks have insufficient rebound travel causing it to top out

Here's where the current 90+ charging stations in Bangalore are located:

I'm curious to see exactly how these stations look and how painless they are to use. Also what are the rates?
Are there any facilities to help you relax for those 5 hours while your car is charging?

Heat sink on the underside of what might be the motor and battery control unit:

Its for the PIM (power inverer module) most likely.

[dZired]

Excellent review rehaan. I knew little about the working mechanism of EVs but your thread was quite informative and as a beginner in this sector, I was able to easily understand each and every point you mentioned about the new technology. Thumbs up to you for covering every minute detail and writing it in such a way that it can be understood by beginners like me.

Well Mahindra has surely come a far way ahead from the earlier reva and the e2o indeed looks and feels more mature. The grown dimensions of the car and small points considered by Mahindra to make the e2o similar to the conventional cars (like using a gear shift instead of a rotary switch) will definitely benefit this new product.

I just hope that the government takes some serious steps to encourage such Eco-friendly EVs and other manufacturers too jump in this sector in order to take advantage of the EV market which surely has a great future.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Nice info! Thanks. (Though the link doesn't seem to be working at the moment - will try again later).

Link seems to be working fine - it downloads a 30+MB .pdf file.

Originally Posted by Thilak29

any indications on the cost of getting vehicle charged at charging stations?

Nothing to be paid at present, at any of the charging stations that show up on the GPS. Only issue is, most of these stations (including Mahindra's own sales & service outlets) have only set up 1 charging point each, just for emergencies. They're little weather-proof lockable boxes installed outdoors, and someone will need to be asked for permission to connect - which may be a problem if you run out of charge late in the night.

[rock75]

I think it is a good start to the industry but not very practical at the moment. The cost is too high to be accepted by masses and inherent limitations are there.

Maybe Mahindra could have reduced the gadgets and frills and introduced it at a lower price. What is the weight? I think it is 834 kgs while Tata nano weighs around 600 kg.I hope Tata's pick up the cue and introduce electric Nano at around 3 lacs and lets see how it goes!

[deetjohn]

What an excellent review! Rehaan, Take a bow!

You have touched upon the big picture and the details as well. Appreciate that you kept the review open by pitting the E20 with all the cars available at that price point. Also, appreciate how you found the problems behind the brakes, how it fares during regular usage, the video, charging info, ownership calculation etc. Awesome! And Thank You.

Mahindra have really thought through many a things, haven't they? I really like the car, but in KL, I pay around INR 15 for an unit of electricity beyond 300 units. It doesn't look viable at all. Wish the Govt. gave out incentives like in DL for the car.

Love the silver grey shade of the car. Mahindra could have given it a different alloy wheel though. Love that Euro E20. If the success of the 'quadricycle' G-Wiz is anything to go by, the E20 will find many takers around the globe.

A few questions:
-Why couldn't Mahindra adopt a single wiper for the windscreen. Won't it help save the juice?
-Also, the key. They really should have spent some more money on the quality and design to make it more desirable. That's an object to flaunt in the meetings.
-And why can't our regular hatchbacks use ABS-plastic for doors and fenders? And why can't body colour be infused into the plastic for the bumpers?

PS: Rehaan, I have mentioned this before. You really get to review all the very interesting cars for T-BHP.

[dkaile]

Great Report Rehaan and Team BHP,

Like I said elsewhere, Reva e2o is a great working concept but whose time is yet to come. Two of the inhibitory factors right now in the minds of prospective customers, assuming they are seriously environment conscious and would like to invest in this high cost product, is the prohibitory cost of replacing the the batteries and also limited range of the vehicle.

OK, so nothing much can be done about the range right now, but Mahindra should come out with some formula to assure at least 1 battery change at nominal cost extending the no nonsense working life of the car to 8 years. This scheme could be a partially funded one or an emi based one so that at the end of 4 years the cost of battery change doesn't cause heartache to the buyer. Just a thought...

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Taking a deeper look, 'internal combustion engines' found in conventional cars are extremely wasteful – they run at about 25% efficiency, and less than 20% of the energy makes it to the road. All the other energy gets wasted as heat. Now, car engines have to be designed as portable and light, whereas power stations can be huge and heavy, enabling them to harness energy that otherwise gets wasted. This makes power stations 2-3 times more efficient than car engines.

Power transmission losses (from generation to distribution) in India are 24% ON AN AVERAGE. So you get about 75% of the generated power at your city's distribution point (sub-stations?). How much more is lost until it reaches the end user appliance is anybody's guess.

Then of course you have the conversion of that power into DC on the car's battery, storage losses, et al.

Electric vehicles are not the solution - they simply raise a fresh set of questions.