[Hayek]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

But you also have to remember that 'Warranty' is not going to help me when I find myself stranded in the middle of the road at 12 am because the gearbox failed. I think this is what people are most worried about.

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Add 40+ degree summer heat, 2 kids, a VERY VERY pissed-off wife

Lets be clear - people who buy the Polo TSi today are better informed than all those who bought DQ 200 equipped cars over the last 4 years. They are aware that a fundamental issue exists, and that while VW has taken some steps towards resolving the same, there is some risk they are taking. Which is why VW should have offered the 10 year warranty formally in India as well. Folks like me bought the Superb knowing that the brand had attitude issues but not knowing about a fundamental design issue with the DQ 200.

What has my experience been? The attitude at the dealership and from Skoda has been as good or better than what I experienced from Honda / Hyundai / Maruti. Yes, I have had 3 breakdowns so far - a battery failure which left me stranded, a coolant warning (not fatal - we could top up water and drive to the service centre) and mechatronics (fortunately in my building parking lot). All were dealt with effectively and without material cost to me.

But would I still consider a Skoda / VW group car? Revealed preference - yes, we bought a Vento Automatic as our second car. Why? Because VW cars offer much better driving pleasure and superior interior quality to anything else you can get for a similar price. As for the risk of getting stranded - happens with all cars. On Indian roads, a much bigger source of risk is that some idiot rams you from behind while you are waiting at a signal (happened twice to me in the last 10 years, once with serious damages and the other time, just a fender bender) or that you get a puncture or damage your car on a "speed breaker" than that the mechatronics failure happens at a very inconvenient time.

So keep your eyes wide open - and go for the Polo TSi unless you are very risk averse.

[thiagust]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

You have a good point.

But you also have to remember that a piece of paper with 'Warranty' written on it is not going to help me when I find myself stranded in the middle of the road at 12 am because the gearbox failed. I think this is what people are most worried about.

This is exactly my point. While I completely appreciate VW bringing such a nice product to our shores, I don't want to find myself in such a scenario.

[asdon]

After reading last few posts, some doubts came in my mind, but all those were related to " if DSG fails", then came a question " what if it works fine" after owning a Maruti, then a Fiat, I know how frustrating A.S.S can be, but I think I am ready to take that risk, I will take one more test drive today, but in mad traffic and see how the car responds, then seal the deal...

For long cross state drives I will ride on the diesel horse, but for smaller trips I don't think TSI will be any issue.

[Guite]

If the auto gearbox is such an issue, why don't VW just install a manual gearbox? I am sure it would satisfy a lot of people for different reasons: cost conscious, performance enthusiasts, risk averse people, etc.

I for one would seriously consider this car if it comes with manual gearbox, for two reasons:- cost and frequent switch between two cars. Our current car is manual, so my wife and myself, especially my wife, may find it confusing when alternately driving both cars. By the way is the turn indicator stalk on the 'wrong' side, ie on LHS?

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Lets be clear - people who buy the Polo TSi today are better informed than all those who bought DQ 200 equipped cars over the last 4 years. They are aware that a fundamental issue exists, and that while VW has taken some steps towards resolving the same, there is some risk they are taking. Which is why VW should have offered the 10 year warranty formally in India as well. Folks like me bought the Superb knowing that the brand had attitude issues but not knowing about a fundamental design issue with the DQ 200.

I'm not entirely sure if everyone knows what they'd be getting into if they'd be buying the Polo GT. Enthusiasts will have a fair idea and we BHPians, even more so, as we've had members posting documented proof of gearbox failures. But the common man looking to buy a petrol AT hatch for city runabouts may have no clue. The reason for this is VAG had conveniently left this issue out of the press and newspapers, and we haven't heard a thing about recalls or the like. Simply because the market these cars were aimed at just wasn't large enough to begin with. In China, the numbers are huge, as it is in some other countries. But here in India, it's almost negligible.

You're right. VW should have offered a better warranty package among other things. But like I'd said earlier, how is it going to help me when I'm stuck in a proverbial pickle?

Originally Posted by Hayek

So keep your eyes wide open - and go for the Polo TSi unless you are very risk averse

We as Indians are almost trained not to be risk-averse. If I were risk averse, I wouldn't be stepping out into the battlefields we call roads.

The Polo GT is a great car and I may just get one for myself sometime in the future. I personally think it's reasonably priced for what it has to offer. If it had come with a manual tranny, I wouldn't think twice. But the DSG and it propensity to give you sleepless nights is what I'm worried about. Shoddy after-sales and expensive service can be dealt with, but a potentially dodgy gearbox..? Hmmm. Let's see how it goes.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

The reason for this is VAG had conveniently left this issue out of the press and newspapers, and we haven't heard a thing about recalls or the like. Simply because the market these cars were aimed at just wasn't large enough to begin with. In China, the numbers are huge, as it is in some other countries. But here in India, it's almost negligible.

Here you go on yesterday's recall of 91000 VW cars in Japan due to DSG problems.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9480CJ20130509

[ampere]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

You're right. VW should have offered a better warranty package among other things. But like I'd said earlier, how is it going to help me when I'm stuck in a proverbial pickle?

Problems part I agree. But at least if I recollect correctly, Ford on the dual clutch gives a warranty of 2 years/ 1L km.

Ref :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post2578687

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Here you go on yesterday's recall of 91000 VW cars in Japan due to DSG problems.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9480CJ20130509

The new article says that the reason for the DSG failures is due to the hot, humid conditions in some cities along with the pollution and start/stop traffic that prevents effective cooling of the box.

Isn't that describing the exact driving conditions in India??

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

the common man looking to buy a petrol AT hatch for city runabouts may have no clue.

IMO that class won't even be looking at a hatch priced at 8L ex showroom which is going to cost them 9-10L on road. There are some more appealing options available at lesser price for that class of buyers. Or if they want to go with VW, they will go for other versions of Polo or Vento. If they are really willing to spend more then they will find Vento AT a better package over this expensive hatchback considering that sedan also adds into status.

VW should have offered a better warranty package among other things.

The current offer is good enough since it provides 2+2 years coverage for major components including DSG. And VW A.S.S. and warranty processes are not as scary as how those are in case of Skoda. Even there are many fellow Skoda owner BHPians who reported positive with Skoda as well so warranty replacement shouldn't be the issue.

But...

like I'd said earlier, how is it going to help me when I'm stuck in a proverbial pickle?

We as Indians are almost trained not to be risk-averse. If I were risk averse, I wouldn't be stepping out into the battlefields we call roads.

Yes, why to take risk unnecessarily when the chances are known...

Hmmm. Let's see how it goes.

...That is what needed right now - wait and watch.
It would be wise to wait for some user reports of the DSG + 1.2TSI combo.

[agambhandari]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Here you go on yesterday's recall of 91000 VW cars in Japan due to DSG problems.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9480CJ20130509

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The new article says that the reason for the DSG failures is due to the hot, humid conditions in some cities along with the pollution and start/stop traffic that prevents effective cooling of the box.

Isn't that describing the exact driving conditions in India??

Yes, that it pretty much it.

Correct me, if I am wrong, but aren't the manufacturers expected to test their cars and drivetrains extensively before launching it for the customers?
If VW found the fact that hot and humid climate has an adverse effect on the workings of the DQ200, it should not have released it in Asia.
I am better off in a less pleasurable, but more reliable torque converter if VW can't make the DQ200 cope up with Indian climate.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by drpudhi

Most of us just want to know why we can't have an excellent car like Polo GT and have some peace of mind too. Is it too much to ask for ?

Good question, and it seems to be one of those "can't have it all" things, so yes it is too much to ask. Very frustrating though.

Every car that is well built, finished and fun to drive is either not manufactured to high quality standards, or/and has poor after sales. Fiat, VW, Skoda, Ford.
Cars that are more reliable, and have decent service are boring appliances for the most part. Hyundai, Toyota, Maruti, GM.
Honda seems to meet both criteria, except after sales tends to be expensive.
What we would give for a Skoda with Toyota quality and service?!

[shibujp]

Finally VW has done it. I always wished that models like the VW Golf R32 came to India. Practical hatches good for the family run as well as up to a good spirited drive.

The car is just as I like it - a sleeper. No external indications as to it's "special" nature. For the discerning public - the subtle badges.

Regarding the warranty - the easiest thing for VW to do is to provide an unlimited 1L/2L warranty on their DSG to restore confidence. The statistics will still hold but at least they counter perception. Remember the days when you used to get Samsung hard disks with the best warranty in the business. They went on to become leaders.

I do not agree that buying a VW/German can should automatically come with the expectation of occasional glitches. VWs esp in the class of Polos and Golf are known for their reliability elsewhere. I don't see why we should not expect it.

Anyway hats off to a great move by VW. Maruti - a 125bhp Swift Sport?

Drive on,
Shibu.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

IMO that class won't even be looking at a hatch priced at 8L ex showroom which is going to cost them 9-10L on road. There are some more appealing options available at lesser price for that class of buyers. Or if they want to go with VW, they will go for other versions of Polo or Vento. If they are really willing to spend more then they will find Vento AT a better package over this expensive hatchback considering that sedan also adds into status.

Let me give you an example.

My father is at the brink of retirement and as strange as it may seem, he has been considering cars that are a segment lower. Cars that are easy to drive and easy to park. ATs have caught his fancy. But he does not want to compromise on little luxuries and general quality by and large.

When he saw the Polo GT advert in the paper, he was excited. But he doesn't have a clue about the DSG issue. Heck, he doesn't even know what DSG tech is! He is well aware of the hassles of owning a VW / Skoda though.

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

And VW A.S.S. and warranty processes are not as scary as how those are in case of Skoda. Even there are many fellow Skoda owner BHPians who reported positive with Skoda as well so warranty replacement shouldn't be the issue..

I'm not entirely sure about this. VW has an equally notorious reputation as well. But it's good to see that there are more than a few satisfied customers as well.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

The new article says that the reason for the DSG failures is due to the hot, humid conditions in some cities along with the pollution and start/stop traffic that prevents effective cooling of the box.

Isn't that describing the exact driving conditions in India??

It is indeed very much like the driving conditions in India. But I fail to understand why this can be a reason for Japan. Its hardly hot and humid there

This actually is not a new finding. We had a recall here in Singapore and this (hot & humid conditions) was suggested as one of the reasons for failure.
The first recall here for DSG/Mechatronics related problem was in 2010, and this was attributed to inferior quality fittings, and the second one in April 2012 was for software update.

And the recent one which started early this week is to fix the fault identified in the gearbox which can lead to loss of power.
_____________

As I mentioned earlier, a voluntary recall is always good because the manufacturer does that only when they have identified the problem, and have a solution for it. Majority of the VW group small cars sold across the world comes with this transmission. I don’t think VAG will knowingly put its reputation at stake as some of their bread n’ butter models are running with this technology (MK7 Golf, New Octavia etc.).

I believe they are now investing in a new manufacturing setup for DSG gearboxes in China, and also developing a new 10-speed DSG as well.

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by shibujp

Regarding the warranty - the easiest thing for VW to do is to provide an unlimited 1L/2L warranty on their DSG to restore confidence.

I think the person who can afford petrol for unlimited kms can also afford the cost of DSG replacement.

I do not agree that buying a VW/German can should automatically come with the expectation of occasional glitches. VWs esp in the class of Polos and Golf are known for their reliability elsewhere. I don't see why we should not expect it.

I agree with you and the Polo based cars have proved themselves in India as well. We don't find any worrisome failure numbers of these cars. And I think the VW won't be liking to damage the reputation they have built with Polo/Vento/Rapid. They must have tested the DSG+1.2TSI combo expensively before launching it here.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

I'm not entirely sure about this. VW has an equally notorious reputation as well. But it's good to see that there are more than a few satisfied customers as well.

Yeah, but according to TBhp reports and VW Facebook page, most of their notorious stories come from few major cities like Mumbai, Bangalore and Chennai. Situation seems fine in rest of India.