[VIPER_SRT]

Creta --> BRV --> City --> Creta , finally getting City VX CVT tomorrow before the 1.5% taxes are effective from June 1 (dealer says so!). My couple of months research mostly on this forum for a reliable automatic petrol car/SUV ended up with a Honda City CVT. While no car is perfect, everyone finds their comfort zone and so did I! Will post pictures when I land in HYD this weekend. Thanks for all your support.

[avdhesh15]

My Honda City (“V”-Manual Transmission, Petrol) has completed 20,000 km in ~25 months of ownership. The first year was with hardly any running (less than 500km per month) but over last 1 year, I have been doing Mumbai-Pune expressway runs almost weekly so running has increased to approx 1500km per month.

What I’ve liked:

• Engine: sweeeeet and fast petrol – can keep a lot of other (read: expensive) cars in the rear-view mirror
• Equipment: unique climate control, rear air-con, reversing camera
• Extremely spacious cabin: with the front seat in my driving position (I am 177cm), rear passenger can stretch as much as needed
• Unbelievable boot: I remember fitting 4 large suitcases once which left me and my family shocked (the SX4 couldn’t take more than 2 large + 2 medium)
• Loads of sensible touches: healthy sized cup holders, armrest, rear cup holders, etc make it easy to live with
• Decent mileage in the petrol version: not counting Mumbai city mileage (as I believe that’s not a fair barometer for any car), on my expressway runs, including getting out of Mumbai, I get around 14-15 which I believe is great – my SX4 would not give more than 12 in similar situations
• Easy to drive: light controls and easy manoeuvrability for the city making it quite effortless to drive
• Status: It’s a Honda City, i.e. society status unlike a Maruti SX4. So many questions on the SX4 that it wasn’t even funny. No one dare the purchase of a City if you know what I am talking about
• Stereo / Bluetooth: Does the required job well and the stock speakers sound good

What I’ve not:

• Boring alloy wheel design & skinny 175 mm tyres too
• Extremely light build quality. Lacks the sheer solidity of its European rivals and even from cars below a segment (my Dzire feels more solid and SX4 was like rock solid in comparison)
• Interior quality feels cheap and out of place in a million plus rupee car (lots of squeaks and rattles which weren’t there in my SX4 and which aren’t there in my Dzire)
• Poor seat fabric quality easily prone to stains
• Some features missing (proper dead pedal, folding rear seat, height-adjustable seatbelts, boot lid cladding)
• Lack of proper security system (although keyless entry is there)
• Dead pedal fell off, engine underbody cover came off, power windows don’t work for a few seconds upon starting the car
• Pathetic service interval of 10,000km / 6 months: Should be 10,000km / 12 months (as also pointed out in a survey on our forum)

Exteriors: Car looks nice and am quite happy with the looks. It looks nice and sporty and gives the “posh” feeling which you would expect from a Honda. Paint quality seems to be fine and should last the distance. If only the alloys would have been better and the tyres one size bigger. I am not someone who visits a car accessory shop so haven’t made any changes but can live with it. Verdict: no major issues / complaints.

Interiors: Very, very poor quality of plastics used. Lots of rattles and squeaks which I have learnt to live with by increasing the volume by a couple of notches. Seat cushioning is fine but fabric is just cheap and stain-prone. I haven’t put seat covers yet but perhaps will have to now get them put. Car can comfortably seat 5 adults as the back seat is quite spacious. I would have preferred black interiors considering the beige is stain-prone. The car is anyway quite large inside so giving the beige to make it look bigger hasn’t perhaps been the best idea. Verdict: major issues / complaints.

Engine & Driving Experience: As I said before, the petrol engine is just fabulous (my friend has the same car in diesel but he doesn’t share the same experience). The car is fun to drive, sounds awesome (read: music), handles well, and does provide a feeling of secureness on the highways. Having said that, the gearbox is very poor and slotting in gears is an effort (as compared to my SX4 and Dzire). Service center says this is normal so I have given up there. Suspension etc seem to be fine and no issues there. Ground clearance has been great and I don’t think I have ever scraped the underbody despite not being too careful.

Head unit & reversing camera: The HU is a functional one and does the job well. Am I happy – hmm let’s just say 50-50 as I would have liked perhaps the one from the Thai version with touch screen and navigation. The reverse camera does its job well though I have faced numerous issues with it getting dislodged (falling off from its socket!) and of which the service center is also unable to do anything about and so am living with it.

Other points:

• Piano black finish is a fingerprint & dust magnet with too much of empty space – I guess that’s why a bigger HU needs to be installed.
• The 6th gear is what I sorely miss on highways. The rpm is way too high at highway speeds and I believe the 6th gear would help in increasing mileage for someone like me who has highway driving but doesn’t want a diesel.
• I wish Honda had the “V” model with CVT (they still don’t have it). The SV felt like a compromise (as I don’t like accessorizing my car) and the VX-CVT was 250k more expensive and at the time I didn’t want to spend the 6k monthly extra.
• Wish Honda had given projector headlamps to enhance the front end.
• Fuel tank capacity: Very less at 40 liters giving it a range of around 500-600km on highways. Should have been at least 50 liters to avoid filling up every now and then.
• Experience with Honda ASS: Poor to say the least. Staff seems unknowledgeable and only keen on upselling unnecessary items (read: scams). Having said that, my experience with the minor accident I had was very good as a personal contact was established with a senior person.

Cost of ownership: Very reasonable and would put it comparable to Maruti (obviously this is with understanding and not getting “scammed”)

• 1st & 2nd service: Rs 0
• Minor accident (to the rear where boot and bumper was changed): Rs 40724 (zero-dep where I only paid the minimum deductible)
• 3rd service: Rs 1449
• 4th service: Rs 3839
• 5th service: Rs 3000

Overall verdict:
The car does feel built to a cost when it comes down to quality but thankfully there has been no compromise on the petrol engine and reliability. I only feel let down with the interior quality as I have spent over a million bucks but nothing else and other manufacturers have more serious complaints than this (e.g. DSG) so I have learnt to live with it. Reliability has *touch-wood* been rock solid and the car has always been ready to go.

Overall I am on the more satisfied side of the scale and will keep the car for some time to come.

But would I buy one again - perhaps not as my work now demands a "SUV" so probably something more rugged in the next couple of years.

PS: I haven't uploaded any pictures as my car color is the same as the official review, i.e. Carnelian Red.

[CapnCook]

Originally Posted by namitkumar31

Hello Cook

1) I felt that the power delivery is good upto 2500 RPM. If I push the car beyond that in a lower gear sometimes for overtaking, I feel the car making more noise but not providing any major push.
( It could very well might be because of my driving style but I wanted to get more opinions on this ).
2) Do you feel any difference in the pick up with AC ON or OFF
3) I find the iVTEC quite noisy above 2000 RPM - I do love the engine note but does everyone feel that ???
4) Around 2000-25000 RPM I sometimes feel a surge in the power ( I am under the impression that it is the AC condensor switching OFF ). I have known cars to have electronics controlling AC condensor depending on the RPM ( My old Beat did ) - Can anyone comment on that ?

Hey Namit, I think feeling slightly underpowered in a petrol car while AC is on fullblast is quite understandable especially at low RPMs as far as I am concerned. I have noticed something similar in my friend's Civic.

The sudden surge of power or more noise at higher RPMs can also be attributed to the way a VTEC engine works. Although an i-VTEC doesn't exactly work like a classic DOHC VTEC but there are similarities. From what I know about i-VTEC engines, there are two cam shaft profiles , one for the lower RPMs for ensuring a good fuel effieciency and emissions and the other one for higher RPMs designed for performance and power. The switch between the two profiles happens automatically based on various engine parameters like current RPM, throttle position, current speed etc. I think the change in engine note around 3000 RPM happens because of this. Someone more familiar with i-VTECs please correct me if I am wrong. There are also quite a lot of fun videos on youtube titled "VTEC just kicked in YO" .

As far as more noise (I like to call it music ) is concerned, it can also be attributed to the fact that i-VTEC does not have any sound insultation under the bonnet.

Cheers

[pravint]

Originally Posted by namitkumar31

Hello Cook

1) I felt that the power delivery is good upto 2500 RPM. If I push the car beyond that in a lower gear sometimes for overtaking, I feel the car making more noise but not providing any major push.
( It could very well might be because of my driving style but I wanted to get more opinions on this ).
2) Do you feel any difference in the pick up with AC ON or OFF
3) I find the iVTEC quite noisy above 2000 RPM - I do love the engine note but does everyone feel that ???
4) Around 2000-25000 RPM I sometimes feel a surge in the power ( I am under the impression that it is the AC condenser switching OFF ). I have known cars to have electronics controlling AC condenser depending on the RPM ( My old Beat did ) - Can anyone comment on that ?

1. I find power delivery good across entire rpm range. If you change gears at redline while on full throttle you will reach 100kmph in second/third gear (Only managed to do it once it second gear).
2&4. I don't feel any difference in performance with AC on/off. I keep AC on full for first 5-10 minutes and after that on speed of 1 or 2. I am also not aware of or experienced system which shuts down AC in ANHC.
3. at higher RPMs i-vtec uses longer valve travel and as a result we get nice vtec sound.It is common across all vtecs.

[namitkumar31]

Originally Posted by CapnCook

Hey Namit, I think feeling slightly underpowered in a petrol car while AC is on fullblast is quite understandable especially at low RPMs as far as I am concerned. I have noticed something similar in my friend's Civic.

The sudden surge of power or more noise at higher RPMs can also be attributed to the way a VTEC engine works. Although an i-VTEC doesn't exactly work like a classic DOHC VTEC but there are similarities. From what I know about i-VTEC engines, there are two cam shaft profiles , one for the lower RPMs for ensuring a good fuel effieciency and emissions and the other one for higher RPMs designed for performance and power. The switch between the two profiles happens automatically based on various engine parameters like current RPM, throttle position, current speed etc. I think the change in engine note around 3000 RPM happens because of this. Someone more familiar with i-VTECs please correct me if I am wrong. There are also quite a lot of fun videos on Youtube titled "VTEC just kicked in YO" .

As far as more noise (I like to call it music ) is concerned, it can also be attributed to the fact that i-VTEC does not have any sound insultation under the bonnet.

Cheers

Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I read up on how the VTEC works and I have seen a lot of videos of the "VTEC kicking in" it is a pleasure to watch. Even I love the engine note but I think my biggest doubt is , when I push the RPM above 3000 the car kinda struggles

Thanks

[CapnCook]

Originally Posted by namitkumar31

Even I love the engine note but I think my biggest doubt is , when I push the RPM above 3000 the car kinda struggles ( check out this video , how easily the car redlines

0-100 in almost under 10 secs, I won't call it struggling. Could have been even better if he had some better tyres may be. I think that's the nature of this particular engine. It's quite rev-happy and the peak power is at the top end.

Also please be safe when you experiment I have noticed that even NICE road is not very smooth these days.

[namitkumar31]

Originally Posted by CapnCook

0-100 in almost under 10 secs, I won't call it struggling. Could have been even better if he had some better tyres may be. I think that's the nature of this particular engine. It's quite rev-happy and the peak power is at the top end.

Also please be safe when you experiment I have noticed that even NICE road is not very smooth these days.

Naah naah.. My car is the one I feel is struggling. This is some video I found on youtube which shows the prowess of City. Looking at this video it seems that the city effortlessly redlines ( honda magic ) However my city does not seem to go past 3000 easily. Again as I said it could be my driving style.

0-100 timing of this video is excellent.

Thanks for the tip. Yeah nice road is not what it used to be. Anyways I just want to see if I can redline in 1st gear with that much ease.

Thanks

[CapnCook]

Originally Posted by namitkumar31

However my city does not seem to go past 3000 easily. Again as I said it could be my driving style.

Hey Namit, may be it's worth having a look at your air filter. The recommended interval by Honda is 20K but given the dusty roads we have, they can get clogged with dust particles much sooner. I hope you know how to reach it under the bonnet. Dust it off gently if you think it is dirty and put it back.

Rest, don't worry too much. I would rather calssify the video you shared under drag racing than normal driving and it has it's tricks and techniques. Since your car is still relatively new, it will only get better with time and the engine breaks in and you become even more familiar confident with it.

Cheers

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by namitkumar31

However my city does not seem to go past 3000 easily. Again as I said it could be my driving style.

Get your car checked up buddy. The City petrol struggling past 3k rpm is shocking. I struggle keeping it below that most times especially after driving my Swift!

On driving style, you gotta slam that A pedal down all the way man and hear the music - aah it's lovely

[namitkumar31]

Originally Posted by CapnCook

Hey Namit, may be it's worth having a look at your air filter. The recommended interval by Honda is 20K but given the dusty roads we have, they can get clogged with dust particles much sooner. I hope you know how to reach it under the bonnet. Dust it off gently if you think it is dirty and put it back.

Rest, don't worry too much. I would rather calssify the video you shared under drag racing than normal driving and it has it's tricks and techniques. Since your car is still relatively new, it will only get better with time and the engine breaks in and you become even more familiar confident with it.

Cheers

Hey ... yeah I am planning to check out the air filter ( Every Sunday, Car Routine : ) ) yeah the video is definitely not safe or normal driving but it got me excited.

Will post the status of the air filter later

Thanks

Originally Posted by avdhesh15

Get your car checked up buddy. The City petrol struggling past 3k rpm is shocking. I struggle keeping it below that most times especially after driving my Swift!

On driving style, you gotta slam that A pedal down all the way man and hear the music - aah it's lovely

I am planning to do some checks myself this Sunday. Anyways Servicing is coming up - so will ask the Whitefield Honda guys to check it up.

Thanks

[FuelInjector]

hi HC experts. Coming back with another query and photos. My car did its 30K service. Post that i face a strange problem. AC doesnt work at times. I feel when the engine rpm is >2000 for a continuous period, the AC stops working. we were driving to blr. AC was working fine for the first hour non stop. Then the blower noise only was coming with regular air flow and not refrigerated air. stopped the vehicle and inspected the coolant pipe. It has ice formation all the way form below the engine bay all the way upto its outlet into the driving cabin. The gas level seems to be normal.
We drove in this condition (without AC till blr). the next day, the use in daily traffic was excellent. no AC issues at all. This was the case on our return as well - did not face any issues.
couple of days back, on another long trip the AC stopped working after about an hour into the journey. on reaching destination and using the car after some engine cooling, there seemed no issue. On our return as well we faced the same issue, AC stopped working after an hour into the journey. But on this case, we stopped the AC and blower, rolled down the windows and kept on driving for another hour. Strangely the AC started working again.
in all the cases, only two things were constant when AC stopped working.
1. The car was doing high speeds with engine rpm >2000
2. it was mid afternoon in all the cases (external temperature was high 30 degrees)

any tips/help would be appreciated.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by FuelInjector

Post that i face a strange problem.

I am no expert but can suggest a couple of possible causes.

Air Conditioning refrigerant over filled causing the compressor to trip.

Cabin AC filter is dirty causing insufficient air flow through the evaporator core resulting ice build up. This is highly unlike though considering you just serviced the car.

Faulty thermostat or relay causing the compressor to run continuously resulting in ice build up.

Can you try varying the climate control temperature setting. Keep it at 23-24 degrees and check if the problem repeats.

This problem has no relation to engine speed, vehicle speed or outside temperature.

[pixantz]

Originally Posted by FuelInjector

hi HC experts. Coming back with another query and photos. My car did its 30K service. Post that i face a strange problem. AC doesnt work at times. I feel when the engine rpm is >2000 for a continuous period, the AC stops working.

any tips/help would be appreciated.

Hi Fuelinjector, you have a classic case of Ac thermistor/thermo switch failure. It makes the compressor run continuously and hence ice formation builds up in the suction pipe.

Since Hondas have very highly efficient compressors, this phenomenon is more pronounced and the higher constant rpms help it make ice really fast if not cut off.

If you're sure it wasn't happening before the service then surely the service guys must have made it on purpose as to facilitate costly ac repairs later.

Because one thing is certain. If you continue running the ac in this condition, your comp is sure to conk off prematurely as they are not built to handle ice coming into them from the pipes. That would cause you to replace comp, condenser, evaporator and maybe expansion valve too. Almost the whole ac. That would cost roughly 50k at a good fng with original parts. HASS would charge close to double that. So do the math.

I suggest you take it right back and complain about this stating that it was ok before service. If you're lucky they might rectify it and you can rest peacefully. Otherwise you know what you got to do. All the best.

[FuelInjector]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

Air Conditioning refrigerant over filled causing the compressor to trip.

Cabin AC filter is dirty causing insufficient air flow through the evaporator core resulting ice build up. This is highly unlike though considering you just serviced the car.

Faulty thermostat or relay causing the compressor to run continuously resulting in ice build up.

Can you try varying the climate control temperature setting. Keep it at 23-24 degrees and check if the problem repeats.

This problem has no relation to engine speed, vehicle speed or outside temperature.

unfortunately, this model doesnt have temperature setting.

Originally Posted by pixantz

Hi Fuelinjector, you have a classic case of Ac thermistor/thermo switch failure. It makes the compressor run continuously and hence ice formation builds up in the suction pipe.

Since Hondas have very highly efficient compressors, this phenomenon is more pronounced and the higher constant rpms help it make ice really fast if not cut off.

If you're sure it wasn't happening before the service then surely the service guys must have made it on purpose as to facilitate costly ac repairs later.

Because one thing is certain. If you continue running the ac in this condition, your comp is sure to conk off prematurely as they are not built to handle ice coming into them from the pipes. That would cause you to replace comp, condenser, evaporator and maybe expansion valve too. Almost the whole ac. That would cost roughly 50k at a good fng with original parts. HASS would charge close to double that. So do the math.

I suggest you take it right back and complain about this stating that it was ok before service. If you're lucky they might rectify it and you can rest peacefully. Otherwise you know what you got to do. All the best.

shall stop using the AC for now. have booked an appointment. Lets see what the HASS guys got to say.

[Dr.Naren]

Honda City loses the segment leader title to Maruti Ciaz. 3305 units of City were shipped compared to 5188 units of Ciaz last month. Maruti is able to do this strong come back by clever implementation of SVHS strategy and recent additional price cuts in Delhi for hybrid cars.

Source : Auto Punditz