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-   -   4th-gen Honda City : Official Review (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/official-new-car-reviews/145656-4th-gen-honda-city-official-review-77.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarScream (Post 3386959)
Only time will tell whether abandoning the reliability of a Honda for German technical wizardry is a good decision.

There are many things in life, where we make blind decisions, compare to those, this would have much better probability of keeping you happy.

I can't comment of Hond/Vento petrol cars, but on Diesel here is my take.

On my VW vento TDI HL, after nearly 3 months and 4K+ KMs, I am happy about my decision. I did take TD of Honda city yesterday and I am happy I made the correct decision based on my till now experience with Vento (call it as honeymoon period).

The driveability of Vento TDi is for better than Honda, the breaking of Vento I rate over Honda, the build quality is certainly better in Vento and interior of Vento certainly feels upscale, whereas Honda feels too jazzy ( my personal opinion) specially the three air vents at three different levels..not of my like.

Where as Honda scores on features and backseat comfort. I also like Honda steering wheel, better than Vento, and by others in FE. My vento is around 16KMPL in Bangalore with full AC and around 19-20kmpl on Highways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neel911 (Post 3386792)
Thanks Rajeevraj. I was going over the updated report and very detailed indeed.

The Vento TSI indeed is a very peppy car in terms of driving. Seating 3 passengers in rear and bigger boot space requirements are few things that may prevent me for going for Vento TSI incase I cancel my SV CVT booking. I'm not sure why they did not add cruise control in Vento TSI.

Overall, considering the extra features that Vento TSI is giving, pricing wise, it turns out better than SV CVT.

Also, I got a notification that during March, Volkwagen is offering 0% EMI for 36 months on Vento. I see their website also updated with the info. I'll be calling in Palace cross Volkwagen SA to get more details.

Did you find the boot space of the Vento not sufficient? Although the boot space of the Vento at 460 liters is less than my earlier SX4 (505 liters), I find that I can fit more things in the Vento. I guess the usable space is pretty high at least when compared to the SX4. Have not seen the City boot, but I don't think the extra boot space City has (510 liters) will make a significant difference.

Agree on the Cruise Control. Wish the Vento TSI had it.

I'll be very surprised if the 0% offer mentioned is available on the TSI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambadan (Post 3387013)
What is the waiting period for TSI? in bangalore, they say 3-4 months

Are you are talking to VW Palace Cross?, If not, try checking with them. I had heard that they get higher number of cars allocated to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarScream (Post 3387105)
To bring this back to topic. Anybody considering the CVT VX should take a look at the Vento TSI. I guess they cost about the same.

No. Vento TSI is about a lac cheaper than city VX CVT :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj (Post 3387130)
Did you find the boot space of the Vento not sufficient? Although the boot space of the Vento at 460 liters is less than my earlier SX4 (505 liters), I find that I can fit more things in the Vento. I guess the usable space is pretty high at least when compared to the SX4. Have not seen the City boot, but I don't think the extra boot space City has (510 liters) will make a significant difference.

Are you are talking to VW Palace Cross?, If not, try checking with them. I had heard that they get higher number of cars allocated to them.

Honda says 510 liters including below cargo floor area. I am not sure others are also considering the same.

Yes, I am talking to palace cross only. After booking they told me that they will try to get it in 1-3 months.

:OT
Just returning from the movie "Shaadi Ke Side Effects". Yesterday I got a call from Dakshin Honda and they provided me free couple tickets to the screening of the movie at J P Nagar Bangalore Central (Inox). That's a good gesture and totally unexpected one coming from Dakshin :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj (Post 3387130)
I'll be very surprised if the 0% offer mentioned is available on the TSI.

You're right - no offer on the TSI. All I got was mud flaps, mats and car cover. From the looks of it, they sell all that they are making and they go pretty fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ambadan (Post 3387132)
No. Vento TSI is about a lac cheaper than city VX CVT :)

Really!?! It must be a Bangalore over/under 10 lacs thing. And if that is true, the decision is a no-brainer. If I remember correctly, the VX CVT is about 11.5l in UP and the TSI is 11.24l.

I was seriously considering the SV CVT. Now, this has made me real confused. The Vento TSI on road costs 11.6 lakhs and SV CVT costs 10.6. Difference of 1 lakh almost.

Guys, please help me which is the best one? I'm looking for a Automatic Car with good back seat comfort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adarsh76 (Post 3387175)
I was seriously considering the SV CVT. Now, this has made me real confused. The Vento TSI on road costs 11.6 lakhs and SV CVT costs 10.6. Difference of 1 lakh almost.

Guys, please help me which is the best one? I'm looking for a Automatic Car with good back seat comfort.

Honda City has the segment best rear seat (space, back rest angle, can accommodate 3 etc.) Most VW cars tend to have a rear seat that is too upright and cushions on the firmer side and uncomfortable for the third passenger. The difference is pretty significant if rear seat is important esp on long drives.

TSI+DSG and German build and road manners make the Vento TSI an awesome car to drive. Honda, admittedly the best among non-EU options, pales in comparison. It has a decent vtec that can be fun to rev but the car feel light, has relatively lesser NVH, steering is not weighted properly, weak horn, needs to be reved high to get some kick, so-so CVT, less sharp brakes, etc. (all relative to Vento)

Get Vento if fun to drive factor is important. It is a special car at that price. Get Honda if rear seat and longevity+solid-reliability are important. It is an all-rounder family car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by i_m_anaconda (Post 3386202)
When I looked at the SV CVT today morning, I happened to notice that gearshifts had "L" mode in addition to "S" mode. I don't remember seeing a "L" mode in any of the pictures I had seen earlier.

I wonder if something changed between initial test drive vehicles and vehicles being delivered to customers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neel911 (Post 3386265)
That is interesting. I am somehow still not able to digest the fact that Honda chose to keep customers in dark for this. Can you post a picture of gearbox if possible? In my opinion, having a manual mode really helps when you want to steer your car through steep hilly areas or through roads filled with water so you can downshift and drive and maintain certain rpm.

I did some more research online and found following for 'L' mode. I'm not sure if this is true but most probably yes. I still am waiting to hear back from SA and Honda customer support (one of the worst I would say where the support rep has no clue about what he/she is saying. They just want to take Name,number and city from where you are calling and forward request to concerned dealer. They didn't know what paddle shifters are in first place and when I said it's for Automatic CVT variants, they asked me if it was for Petrol or Diesel :Frustrati). No paddle shifters and so having an added 'L' mode in SV variant falls in place then.

Snippet from reference links below:
- L (Low) Mode: Use Low to get more power when climbing, and for maximum engine braking when going down steep hills
- L mode acts in exactly the same way as that in a conventional automatic, maintaining low gearing/high engine speeds for progress at slow road speeds

Reference links:
1) http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/p...303O00140A.pdf
2) http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=20071

That takes care of certain concerns with not having paddle shifters. The main benefit of having more control with paddle shifters will be missed nevertheless. Test drive will be extremely important here.

The only other option I have in AT is to go for Vento TSI but after looking at the Honda City, my family is not that inclined towards going for Vento (New looks, spacious interiors and Honda badging playing role here). Worst case, I might have to just delay upgrading my car then :(. For me it'll be more of city driving and occasional highway(once in 3 months) driving so getting Automatic when I upgrade is something that is fixed considering the horrible Bangalore traffic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarScream (Post 3387166)
You're right - no offer on the TSI. All I got was mud flaps, mats and car cover. From the looks of it, they sell all that they are making and they go pretty fast.



Really!?! It must be a Bangalore over/under 10 lacs thing. And if that is true, the decision is a no-brainer. If I remember correctly, the VX CVT is about 11.5l in UP and the TSI is 11.24l.

11.5 for the VX CVT seems too low, considering that the Ex-Showrooom itself is in the 10.8-10.9L Range. The Vento TSI in Bangalore is somewhere around the 12.6-12.7 OTR (assuming the price rice and the excise cut balanced each other out) and the City VX CVT is ~13.9L OTR as per a Bangalore Dealer website. Based on this the VX CVT in UP should be ~12.5L range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adarsh76 (Post 3387175)
I was seriously considering the SV CVT. Now, this has made me real confused. The Vento TSI on road costs 11.6 lakhs and SV CVT costs 10.6. Difference of 1 lakh almost.

Guys, please help me which is the best one? I'm looking for a Automatic Car with good back seat comfort.

If you expect to do a lot of highway driving on Kerala Roads (as your profile indicates you are from Trivandrum), from performance perspective the Vento will be a better car, because it is a strong performer and the presence of sports and manual mode make it a wonderful car to drive on crowded highways.

Having said that, you need to look at what all other parameters are important for you. Look at the brochures and compare features. The Vento TSI has a lot more features than the City SV variant. For example from technical standpoint the SV does not have paddle shifts (which is what triggered the last 2-3 pages discussion), Hill Hold, ESP but at the same time the TSI does not have Cruise Control which the SV has.

So, do that comparison and see if it helps you eliminate one of the cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neel911 (Post 3387398)
I did some more research online and found following for 'L' mode. I'm not sure if this is true but most probably yes. I still am waiting to hear back from SA and Honda customer support (one of the worst I would say where the support rep has no clue about what he/she is saying. They just want to take Name,number and city from where you are calling and forward request to concerned dealer. They didn't know what paddle shifters are in first place and when I said it's for Automatic CVT variants, they asked me if it was for Petrol or Diesel :Frustrati). No paddle shifters and so having an added 'L' mode in SV variant falls in place then.

Snippet from reference links below:
- L (Low) Mode: Use Low to get more power when climbing, and for maximum engine braking when going down steep hills
- L mode acts in exactly the same way as that in a conventional automatic, maintaining low gearing/high engine speeds for progress at slow road speeds

Reference links:
1) http://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/p...303O00140A.pdf
2) http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=20071

That takes care of certain concerns with not having paddle shifters. The main benefit of having more control with paddle shifters will be missed nevertheless. Test drive will be extremely important here.

The only other option I have in AT is to go for Vento TSI but after looking at the Honda City, my family is not that inclined towards going for Vento (New looks, spacious interiors and Honda badging playing role here). Worst case, I might have to just delay upgrading my car then :(. For me it'll be more of city driving and occasional highway(once in 3 months) driving so getting Automatic when I upgrade is something that is fixed considering the horrible Bangalore traffic.

Isn't the City CVT vehicle available for Test Drive yet in Bangalore? They seem to have already started deliveries elsewhere...I agree the showroom folks are not knowledgeable and of less help. Better to ask them for Test Drive and get things clarified yourself based on test drive.

Also for people making the Vento vs City Automatic comparisons - there is another thread on T-BHP (slightly older one) which people can go thru as well and update: City Vs Vento. The article also seems to highlight from a re-sale value perspective it maybe good to consider the Verna Automatic as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsrivatsa (Post 3387507)
Isn't the City CVT vehicle available for Test Drive yet in Bangalore? They seem to have already started deliveries elsewhere...I agree the showroom folks are not knowledgeable and of less help. Better to ask them for Test Drive and get things clarified yourself based on test drive.

No CVT vehicles available yet. My SA mentioned that they are hardly getting CVT cars and only for direct allocation (no TD). Also, as per him, when it'll be available, it'll most probably be top end VX variant.

I have noticed some interesting pricing information. The Ex Delhi showroom prices of City SV & VX MT variants against CVT.

SV MT Petrol:Rs. 831,000
SV CVT Petrol: Rs. 931,000

There is a price difference of Rs. 1 lakh

VX MT Petrol: Rs. 975,000
VX CVT Petrol: Rs. 1,080,000

Here, there is a price difference of Rs. 1 lakh & 5,000. So, will Honda come out and declare the rationale?!

May be on:

1. Presence/Absence of Paddle Shifters
2. Presence/Absence of L/S Modes

If it is a mere Rs. 5,000 for all it takes for Honda to incorporate Paddle Shifters & Add/Drop L/S mode, why can't they give it in SV also?

I have been driving an AT (on i10) for the past five years. I rarely used L mode. Given the fact that the Grand i10 AT has an option to down/up shift using the stick while in D mode, it is appreciated if Honda can add paddle shifter or give an option to down/up shift using the stick in SV CVT. Otherwise come out clean on this issue.

I have booked a C Red SV CVT in Jan and my dealer has delivered only ONE SV CVT so far, with a total of six CVT scheduled for delivery this month, as per the production plan. Yet NO test drive CVT car. :Frustrati

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul_charles (Post 3387563)
I have noticed some interesting pricing information. The Ex Delhi showroom prices of City SV & VX MT variants against CVT.

SV MT Petrol:Rs. 831,000
SV CVT Petrol: Rs. 931,000

There is a price difference of Rs. 1 lakh

VX MT Petrol: Rs. 975,000
VX CVT Petrol: Rs. 1,080,000

Here, there is a price difference of Rs. 1 lakh & 5,000. So, will Honda come out and declare the rationale?!

May be on:

1. Presence/Absence of Paddle Shifters
2. Presence/Absence of L/S Modes

If it is a mere Rs. 5,000 for all it takes for Honda to incorporate Paddle Shifters & Add/Drop L/S mode, why can't they give it in SV also?

:Frustrati

I believe the 5K difference and absence of paddle shifters are non related. The pricing is more to do with demand/market/margin/other factors. If you look at the Excise cut as well, Honda was not consistent as well on giving the same cut percentage across variants.

I got a call from SA few minutes back. He confirmed that there is L mode on SV CVT and they call it Low Mode. So what I reported above is true then.

But I agree that Honda should have given the paddle shifters on SV variant as well or they should have a 'V' SVT with paddle shifters. Forcing customers to go all way to VX variant for Automatic to get paddle shifters is just not justified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj (Post 3387411)
11.5 for the VX CVT seems too low, considering that the Ex-Showrooom itself is in the 10.8-10.9L Range. The Vento TSI in Bangalore is somewhere around the 12.6-12.7 OTR (assuming the price rice and the excise cut balanced each other out) and the City VX CVT is ~13.9L OTR as per a Bangalore Dealer website. Based on this the VX CVT in UP should be ~12.5L range.

The Honda site mentions the ex-showroom as 10.8 in UP, which should translate to near 12 lacs on road (85k registration + 35k comp. insurance). So I guess, the difference with the Vento TSI is about 70k.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adarsh76 (Post 3387175)
I was seriously considering the SV CVT. Now, this has made me real confused. The Vento TSI on road costs 11.6 lakhs and SV CVT costs 10.6. Difference of 1 lakh almost.

Guys, please help me which is the best one? I'm looking for a Automatic Car with good back seat comfort.

The Honda City is well known for its back seat comfort. Almost all reviews on different forums I have read to date, say the same thing. Being a Honda owner myself, I can support this claim with confidence.

Another aspect you may want to consider is the service costs. Typically VW's annual service may cost you in the range of INR 10+K. Honda will be bi-annual servicing each around INR 3K to 4K. Though Honda recommends servicing every 3 months (general check-up), I have been taking my Honda every 6 months for an oil & filter change.

The point in favor of the VW is that it has 55 liter gas tank, so you'll be visiting gas stations less frequently as against a 40 liter tank capacity of the Honda City. It would have really helped, if the Honda City had come with a bigger tank capacity like the VW. Build wise, I think the VW feels definitely more 'solid'.

In summary, most people I personally I know who own a Honda City automatic (3rd generation) are very happy with the Honda i-vetc engine performance.


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