[Seran Manian]

Though it is too early to give a complete picture about mileage, I get a mileage of 20+ (I-DTEC) in the initial 500 Kms I have driven till date. Have posted details in my ownership review...

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3519253

[harpreetsubhi]

Guys
Off lately I have been observing heaviness in my Honda City dtech driving in the lower gears. The spirited pickup is gone in first two gears and car behaves quite heavy. Anybody has seen this behaviour from their City ?

[adarsh76]

Originally Posted by DoctorKK

Thanks for the figures. My driving is not going to exceed 1500 kms every month( May be only sometime when I go out station ) but with my current Swift petrol 2008 model the experience has been very painful as it returns figures of only 10-11 in city( with intermittent AC and turning engine off on long red lights) It's really a pain refueling every now and then and thinking before going for long drives and dropping some distant relative to the airport!! Considering this I had decided to go for the diesel as I was tired of these feelings �� Pay upfront the extra amount( pains only once!!) rather than feeling the pain every time visiting the pump!!
But now these cuts in petrol rates and narrowing gap between diesel and petrol has again sparked a confusion in me.


Sent from my iPad using Team-BHP

I see that you're from Trivandrum. Do you have anyone who has the City Diesel? I know two people (one my relative) who has an Amaze Diesel and another guy with a City Diesel. You should be aware that the Diesel engine of City is same as Amaze with some tweaks to the BHP. As per the MID in my relative's Amaze Diesel the MID value is showing 12.6 kms/l in Trivandrum City driving. And my friend in his City Diesel on a daily commute from Kowdiar to Technopark via Sreekaryam is getting 13 to 15 kms/l as per his MID during the morning time. The same route which I'm taking, my CVT is returning from 10.8 to 12 kms/l depending on the traffic conditions. You might be aware of the bottleneck in Sreekaryam. If i take the bypass route then FE will go up to 13.5 kms/l.

I strongly suggest that if FE is the only reason you're opting for a Diesel, then please check with somebody who owns a City diesel and check the real world mileage in Trivandrum city driving.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by adarsh76

You should be aware that the Diesel engine of City is same as Amaze with some tweaks to the BHP.

There are no tweaks to the BHP between City and Amaze diesels. The difference is only in the addition of a 6th ratio, and the removal of the electronic speed limiter present in the Amaze.

Originally Posted by harpreetsubhi

Guys
Off lately I have been observing heaviness in my Honda City dtech driving in the lower gears. The spirited pickup is gone in first two gears and car behaves quite heavy. Anybody has seen this behaviour from their City ?

Have you checked for the usual culprits - Fuel Quality, Air filter cleanliness, tyre pressure etc?

[adarsh76]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

There are no tweaks to the BHP between City and Amaze diesels. The difference is only in the addition of a 6th ratio, and the removal of the electronic speed limiter present in the Amaze.

Ok, I was aware of some difference. Thought it was the BHP change.

[Rocketscience]

Originally Posted by harpreetsubhi

Guys
Off lately I have been observing heaviness in my Honda City dtech driving in the lower gears. The spirited pickup is gone in first two gears and car behaves quite heavy. Anybody has seen this behaviour from their City ?

I thought mine did the same because of larger tyres but that's not the case , from my findings City diesel is the most people/load sensitive vehicle i've ever driven (even more than small 3 cylinder engines) , there is a substantial drop in performance (by this i mean it is easily noticiable) whenever any additional passenger is added.
This is how the engine behaves corresponding to the load:-

Driving Alone - Peppy
2 People /3 People - Acceptable/Adequate
4 people /5 People / + Luggage - Sluggish

Also Turning AC off makes a substantial difference too , i turned it off for a small while today while returning back from T-Bhp's meet today , and the engine felt much more eager especially in lower RPMs , it was much easier to pull on the same road (with a bit of an incline) at lower rpms , and the 3rd gear felt a fair deal peppier out on the open road and car was definitely pulling quickly.
Although there is a marginal drop in performance with additional load and turning the AC on in many cars but it is much more prounonced in the City , not just the lower gears but i've noticed City actually struggle with 5 people and full load on highway , it definitely felt a bit underpowered then.

[harry10]

Originally Posted by Rocketscience

I thought mine did the same because of larger tyres but that's not the case , from my findings City diesel is the most people/load sensitive vehicle i've ever driven (even more than small 3 cylinder engines) , there is a substantial drop in performance (by this i mean it is easily noticiable) whenever any additional passenger is added.
This is how the engine behaves corresponding to the load:-

Driving Alone - Peppy
2 People /3 People - Acceptable/Adequate
4 people /5 People / + Luggage - Sluggish

Also Turning AC off makes a substantial difference too , i turned it off for a small while today while returning back from T-Bhp's meet today , and the engine felt much more eager especially in lower RPMs , it was much easier to pull on the same road (with a bit of an incline) at lower rpms , and the 3rd gear felt a fair deal peppier out on the open road and car was definitely pulling quickly.
Although there is a marginal drop in performance with additional load and turning the AC on in many cars but it is much more prounonced in the City , not just the lower gears but i've noticed City actually struggle with 5 people and full load on highway , it definitely felt a bit underpowered then.

I concur with you that additional load does matter in City but I don't feel it that pronounced. I only feel the effect if there is good amount of weight in the boot and 4 or 5 passengers.

On the contrary I have tried it twice with AC off and I found it performs better with AC on. Also I will agree with luggage and 5 people performance dips in lower gears but in 5th and 6th I haven't felt any such difference on highways. Will try it again with AC off when weather is on the colder side.

[DoctorKK]

Originally Posted by adarsh76

I see that you're from Trivandrum. Do you have anyone who has the City Diesel? I know two people (one my relative) who has an Amaze Diesel and another guy with a City Diesel. You should be aware that the Diesel engine of City is same as Amaze with some tweaks to the BHP. As per the MID in my relative's Amaze Diesel the MID value is showing 12.6 kms/l in Trivandrum City driving. And my friend in his City Diesel on a daily commute from Kowdiar to Technopark via Sreekaryam is getting 13 to 15 kms/l as per his MID during the morning time. The same route which I'm taking, my CVT is returning from 10.8 to 12 kms/l depending on the traffic conditions. You might be aware of the bottleneck in Sreekaryam. If i take the bypass route then FE will go up to 13.5 kms/l.

I strongly suggest that if FE is the only reason you're opting for a Diesel, then please check with somebody who owns a City diesel and check the real world mileage in Trivandrum city driving.

I have a senior whose city is now around 2 months old and he is getting 17-18 in city and got upto 24 km/l at highway. I was impressed by these figures and because I am fed up of the Swift's petrol hunger,was always in favor of the diesel. I take the shasthamangalam - museum- Pattom route to reach my hospital which is ok traffic wise. With feedback from various people on this thread and others,I am expecting a difference of 6-8 km/ltr between petrol and diesel in city driving( and probably more on the highway).
Plus when I test drove the diesel and petrol,I found the diesel more responsive and fun to drive,any inputs regarding the fun factor between the two?
Having driven the petrol so long,I am skeptical of buying the petrol again and suffer every time I refuel. But frankly speaking,totally confused at the moment!!


Sent from my iPad using Team-BHP

[adarsh76]

Originally Posted by DoctorKK

I have a senior whose city is now around 2 months old and he is getting 17-18 in city and got upto 24 km/l at highway. I was impressed by these figures and because I am fed up of the Swift's petrol hunger,was always in favor of the diesel. I take the shasthamangalam - museum- Pattom route to reach my hospital which is ok traffic wise. With feedback from various people on this thread and others,I am expecting a difference of 6-8 km/ltr between petrol and diesel in city driving( and probably more on the highway).
Plus when I test drove the diesel and petrol,I found the diesel more responsive and fun to drive,any inputs regarding the fun factor between the two?
Having driven the petrol so long,I am skeptical of buying the petrol again and suffer every time I refuel. But frankly speaking,totally confused at the moment!!
Sent from my iPad using Team-BHP

Well then the Diesel is best for you based on your requirement, the feedback and route you are taking.

If you find the responsiveness more in the Diesel test drive vehicle then obviously there is some problem with the Petrol test drive vehicle you were given. Petrol City has more responsiveness and power than Diesel.

[anilagdr]

Originally Posted by DoctorKK

Plus when I test drove the diesel and petrol,I found the diesel more responsive and fun to drive,any inputs regarding the fun factor between the two?
Having driven the petrol so long,I am skeptical of buying the petrol again and suffer every time I refuel. But frankly speaking,totally confused at the moment!!

Sent from my iPad using Team-BHP

Originally Posted by adarsh76

Well then the Diesel is best for you based on your requirement, the feedback and route you are taking.


If you find the responsiveness more in the Diesel test drive vehicle then obviously there is some problem with the Petrol test drive vehicle you were given. Petrol City has more responsiveness and power than Diesel.

Hi doc
Petrol cars are supposed to be superior in the fun-to-drive department, but it all depends on the make of the car.
Diesel vehicles are considered more polluting but are more efficient and churns out a better mileage. So, since lesser fuel is used it could be considered tolerable wrt pollution.
Lastly, you are the best judge of your case - and if you find diesel to be better, go ahead and be happy for the rest of your ownership period (like me)

[pixantz]

Originally Posted by harry10

All the reviews I have read about the petrol City the general Consensus is it gives between 10-13 in city and 15-17 on highways.

My running is between 2000-2500 km per month minimum so diesel still suits my need. In Delhi region where I encounter huge jams daily I am getting 16-17kmpl with sedate driving and 14-15kmpl with some enthusiastic one. On a Highway drive I have got 24kmpl till now. AC is on 100%.

Based on these figures you can do the necessary calculations and figure out which fuel suits you the most. Make sure whatever you buy it shouldn't make you think twice about taking your car out for a long drive or any airport runs etc. That spoils the fun of owning a car.

Well, you can't expect the City to give better mileage than the Swift. Any City, any day. So that leaves the diesel. If you can bear the noise then it's good for you because as in any car, the diesel model will always give you almost double the mileage than the corresponding petrol model. So even if diesel and petrol cost the same, you're at a day-to-day profit. Also, Diesel engines are more robust and more strongly built engines than their petrol counterparts so you will be buying a more muscular engine if you go diesel, at the same time enjoying better torque too. It would have been awesome if Honda had released the cng version City here too. Then your life would have been sorted. You can consider going for i-vtec and installing cng though.... Or then go for Verna Diesel and live happily ever after.

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by DoctorKK

....got upto 24 km/l at highway. I was impressed by these figures and because I am fed up of the Swift's petrol hunger,was always in favor of the diesel. ... ...

Plus when I test drove the diesel and petrol,I found the diesel more responsive and fun to drive,any inputs regarding the fun factor between the two?....I am skeptical of buying the petrol again and suffer every time I refuel. But frankly speaking,totally confused at the moment!!

The fun-to-drive factor and better driveability which you experienced in the Diesel over the Petrol is due to the higher (200 NM) Torque belted out by the Diesel which is 37% higher than the petrol variant (at 145 NM) and gets delivered at a much lower RPM in the Diesel.

Based on all the reports and analysis on the City discussed before in this thread, the break-even point between the Petrol and Diesel would be about 45 thousand KM (to even out the about Rs 1.7 L initial purchase overhead + about Rs 80K fuel overhead in a Diesel)
Considering that a car is typically driven for about 80K to 1 Lac KM before it gets sold, one is still bound to gain in a Diesel for the next 45 thousand KM (even after factoring the higher maintenance cost of a Diesel)

Its a real good feeling to be fueling less frequently compared to a Petrol

Look at it the other way around, in the Petrol City, you literally drive free without paying for Petrol for the first 45 thousand KM (upto the break even point with Diesel City)

[adarsh76]

Originally Posted by for_cars1

The fun-to-drive factor and better driveability which you experienced in the Diesel over the Petrol is due to the higher (200 NM) Torque belted out by the Diesel which is 37% higher than the petrol variant (at 145 NM) and gets delivered at a much lower RPM in the Diesel.

Based on all the reports and analysis on the City discussed before in this thread, the break-even point between the Petrol and Diesel would be about 45 thousand KM (to even out the about Rs 1.7 L initial purchase overhead + about Rs 80K fuel overhead in a Diesel)
Considering that a car is typically driven for about 80K to 1 Lac KM before it gets sold, one is still bound to gain in a Diesel for the next 45 thousand KM (even after factoring the higher maintenance cost of a Diesel)

Its a real good feeling to be fueling less frequently compared to a Petrol

Look at it the other way around, in the Petrol City, you literally drive free without paying for Petrol for the first 45 thousand KM (upto the break even point with Diesel City)

Whatever, the case seems the diesel price hikes had its impact. As per the story below, demand for City Diesel cars has dipped from 70% to 50%. This includes other manufacturers as well.

http://www.businessinsider.in/Petrol...w/40474348.cms

I'm not in favor of Diesel price hikes even though I owned only Petrol cars till date including the New City. The hike of Diesel prices triggers price hikes in many other areas. But seems this trend is going to continue.

I would blame the Diesel car owners for this (just kidding, the real culprit is the government's fuel policy).Deregulation of petrol prices only earlier made this mad rush for Diesel cars. I don't know if they should have deregulated prices of Diesel and Petrol at the same time.

However, considering the pollution factor, both Diesel and Petrol pollute, only difference is the particulate matter emission for Diesel is higher which is considered more dangerous. Petrol emits Carbon Monoxide, which is also very dangerous but it has been controlled to a big extent with the introduction of Catalytic Converters.

It's really time to bring some fuel which emits oxygen.

[Geo]

On the FE question, here are my observations as an IVTEC owner - On a highway, for a good ride, it can go up to 20 kmpl or even 24 kmpl (if the roads are really good). This is consistent. I have only done close to 2000 kms.

But as the traffic increases, FE drops. In bumper to bumper traffic, it drops to less than 10 or around 9 for me. In slightly better conditions, I get around 11 to 12 kmpl consistently.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Rocketscience

I thought mine did the same because of larger tyres but that's not the case , from my findings City diesel is the most people/load sensitive vehicle i've ever driven (even more than small 3 cylinder engines) , there is a substantial drop in performance (by this i mean it is easily noticiable) whenever any additional passenger is added.
This is how the engine behaves corresponding to the load:-

Driving Alone - Peppy
2 People /3 People - Acceptable/Adequate
4 people /5 People / + Luggage - Sluggish

Also Turning AC off makes a substantial difference too , i turned it off for a small while today while returning back from T-Bhp's meet today , and the engine felt much more eager especially in lower RPMs , it was much easier to pull on the same road (with a bit of an incline) at lower rpms , and the 3rd gear felt a fair deal peppier out on the open road and car was definitely pulling quickly.
Although there is a marginal drop in performance with additional load and turning the AC on in many cars but it is much more prounonced in the City , not just the lower gears but i've noticed City actually struggle with 5 people and full load on highway , it definitely felt a bit underpowered then.

That should be because of the lowest torque/weight ratio for the segment, leaving out the SX4 that has been discontinued now. Torque matters when you have more people on board, unless the torque is produced very low down the rpm range - for example the Innova produces its max torque at 1200rpm!