[Fx14]

Originally Posted by damager21

On one hand while we all are comparing pricing with Ertiga and believe that 1.27 lacs premium for top variant diesel is not justified for more space, better engine and better fuel efficiency, doesn't the price seem justified when compared with Innova where Mobilio is cheaper by a whopping 5 lacs. No doubt Innova is a superb product which offers better space, built, engine and features than Mobilio, but is'nt 5 lacs too much ...

PS: No offense to anyone in the examples I cited. I am just trying to make an argument and take our discussion forward. Congrats to AcidKill on his buy

Possibilities are endless if comparisons are made across UVs available.

Another perspective - Tata Venture would be approx. 4 Lakhs lower than the base Mobilio with better seating comfort. Refer comments on another thread -

What you'll like:

• The only diesel microvan on sale in India
• Contemporary exterior design for a people mover. Unmistakeably a Tata
• Acres of space at the middle row
• Comfortable seating (for a van)
• Top end GX model loaded with features
• Matured ride quality
• Rugged underpinnings and decent build quality

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ve-review.html

[JLS]

Originally Posted by tejas08

Yes, Diesel does outsell petrol ones. But the margin has come down drastically over the last two years. If i remember correctly the Diesel to Petrol ratio was near 4:1 sometime back in Januray-2013 as per the Sales figures published on the forums and by July-13 it had consistently come down upto 2.5:1.

With the difference between diesel and petrol fading away, the balance is shifting. In fact, its been at least 6 months wherein none of the car-makers have actually shared the data of the diesel to Petrol Split. WHY? Does anybody know?

I agree, with the price difference decreasing between petrol and diesel, diesel does not make that much sence, however diesel varients still sell more because:
- Diesel varients give 40% more milage (case in point, for Mobilio - Petrol ARAI figure -17.3, Diesel ARAI figure - 24.2). Hence, even with increasing diesel price, still people are going for diesel vehicles
- MPVs are more for mile crunching use, rather than pottering in city for small distances, hence I believe Mobilio will sell many more diesel varient vehicles than petrol ones
Regards,
JLS

[Babuda]

After going through this very detailed review and the follow up posts, I feel that if I was in the market for a part time seven seater and had to choose between the Mobilio and the Ertiga today, I would go for the latter simply because it appears to be a more complete product (disclaimer - I am an Ertiga owner, so maybe I'm prejudiced) What I feel missing in the Mobilio is the 'feel good' factor. There is also another car in this category (which has been ignored in this thread unless I've missed something) which gave off similar negative vibes when I had taken a test drive - which I didn't ENJOY a bit

[Fx14]

Originally Posted by JLS

I agree, with the price difference decreasing between petrol and diesel, diesel does not make that much sence, however diesel varients still sell more because:
- Diesel varients give 40% more milage (case in point, for Mobilio - Petrol ARAI figure -17.3, Diesel ARAI figure - 24.2). Hence, even with increasing diesel price, still people are going for diesel vehicles
- MPVs are more for mile crunching use, rather than pottering in city for small distances, hence I believe Mobilio will sell many more diesel varient vehicles than petrol ones
Regards,
JLS

Somehow, there is a fixation on the price difference between petrol and diesel, while comparing the fuel variants.

It may be worthy to note that even in countries where the Diesel price is on par or more than the Petrol price, there is a preference towards Diesel vehicles for other reasons such as efficiency, torque characteristics, utility etc. where Diesel outshines Petrol engines.

People carriers (UVs) therefore preferably would be Diesel for the loads expected to be carried, rather than mileage alone.

There are also numerous threads on this forum that highlight the differences.

As an aside, if only price of the fuel used is the consideration, then CNG is by far the cheapest of the lot available.

[4k_jz]

Originally Posted by paragsachania

Alright, here's something I tried that I assume would give a quick pictorial comparison between the Mobilio and the Ertiga. Note that all the pictures of the Mobilio are from this very review and those of the Ertiga are captured by me either today or when I drafted a review for my Ertiga.

Attachment 1265721
How does the 3rd row height look in both
Dashboard:
Attachment 1265729

Great comparo! A lot of things cleared up. The sitting height in Mobilio's 3rd row is lowered so that person's head does not touch the roof. But in doing so they have greatly compromised with the comfort. When I sat in mobilio's last row, I couldn't get up without the support of hand grab. One gets stuck in the last row. Whereas in Ertiga you can easily get out without any support.

The rear speaker's placement is quite weird. Speakers are placed adjacent to the passenger's head.

IMO Ertiga's dashboard looks uniform and the buttons and console smartly placed. Mobilio won't be getting that touch ICE and wooden trim. Also, the dash doesn't makes an appeal.

What I am really looking forward is for TD so that I could check the famous i-vtec/i-dtec and the way they deliver power. Although I would prefer to drive an i-dtec city rather than a same engine in the mpv.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by tejas08

Isn't the Engine Superior than the Ertiga. The Reliability of the i-VTEC engine is way above that of the Ertiga.

On the reliability front both the i-VTEC and the K14M aren't doubted. They are well preferred and respected so no debate on that point.

Originally Posted by tejas08

As you said, why fix it when its not broken. The customer is buying the car, despite the fact that there are better options available, just because its been selling for ages and that a majority of the customers are ignorant to that fact that there are better options.

No, that thought IMO is wrong, the customer is buying a car even when it has competitors that are better are because the car is good and worth sales figures. In this age where media has a great hand in information sharing and distribution the public knows what cars are available and how worth they are.

What is good it sells. Example is the Toyota Innova, Maruti Swift, Honda City, i10 and i20.

Originally Posted by tejas08

Nobody noticed that when actually discussing the pros and cons of a ~1 Million sedan. Why does one suddenly notice it on the Mobilio, whose E & S variants are actually cheaper than the City.

Its just because there is a competitor in the market who is offering a vehicle with better features at a lower price, that people start noticing all the negatives about the product.

Why are you comparing the City here when the topic is between the Ertiga and Mobilio?!

Anurag.

[tejas08]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

No, that thought IMO is wrong, the customer is buying a car even when it has competitors that are better are because the car is good and worth sales figures. In this age where media has a great hand in information sharing and distribution the public knows what cars are available and how worth they are.

What is good it sells. Example is the Toyota Innova, Maruti Swift, Honda City, i10 and i20.

Its not that way IMO. The likes of Omni, Eeco, WagonR, Alto, are selling huge numbers which is purely due to the fact that other car manufacturer's reach is not as deep inside as that of MSIL. And it may not be for another 8-10 years at least.

Well even in today's internet age, off the 200K cars that are sold per month, not more than 25-30% buyers would have checked for reviews on the internet of the car that they are buying. The reason I say this is that the majority of the buyers of Alto, Omni, Eeco, etc would not check for any other car. The same goes for the Fleet operators or Taxi Operators who would look at the regular cars being used for such purpose.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Why are you comparing the City here when the topic is between the Ertiga and Mobilio?!

Anurag.

The point was that at 6.49L the Mobilio did not even have the basic functions such as Auto-Lock Door against which I said that neither does the 7.2L and the 7.5L variant of City has it.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by tejas08

Its not that way IMO. The likes of Omni, Eeco, WagonR, Alto, are selling huge numbers which is purely due to the fact that other car manufacturer's reach is not as deep inside as that of MSIL. And it may not be for another 8-10 years at least.

That is not Maruti's fault at all. Who is stopping the other manufacturers to enter into the Tier-2 and Tier-3 market?

Maruti entered those cities and it is enjoying the success without a doubt. The customer is happy as he gets the best at the nearest point from his place of stay.

Originally Posted by tejas08

The point was that at 6.49L the Mobilio did not even have the basic functions such as Auto-Lock Door against which I said that neither does the 7.2 L and the 7.5 L variant of City has it.

IMO, better to stick to Ertiga vs Mobilio.

We all know that the Mobilio was launched in India to compete with the Ertiga.

Mobilio gave better 2nd row seating, split seats for the last row and slightly bigger engine BUT I am wondering why they left outseat belt height adjustment and auto-locking doors.

Brio = Mobilio but stretched,
Swift = Ertiga but stretched.

Swift looks upmarket when compared to competition but the Mobilio doesn't look upmarket.

If we start comparing that way then there is no end so it is upto you how you take it.

Anurag.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by for_cars1

With the manufacturing capacity constraint that Honda has at the moment, the higher pricing will bring in lower number of orders which they can comfortably meet, given their production constraints with better profit margin per sale.

What kind of logic is that . What is the point of launching a vehicle if from the start you aim to garner less orders for it? The higher price tag will stay in people's mind forever even if tomorrow they start offering huge discounts on it. Plenty of such cases from the past for an example.

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

What is the point of launching a vehicle if from the start you aim to garner less orders for it?

I didn't mean that Honda is praying for lower sales. , but to achieve the higher volumes, they wouldn't necessarily reduce their margins. Given the fact that the mobilio is based on a lower platform and lower cost of manufacturing, even moderate sales numbers at this price point might be profitable for them.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by for_cars1

I didn't mean that Honda is praying for lower sales. Honda definitely would expect higher sales numbers for mobilio, but to achieve the higher volumes, they wouldn't necessarily reduce their margins.

No issues there. To gain something we have to loose something. So in a way Honda will be prepared to loose a bit of money in turn to achieve higher sales BUT the amount of part sharing that is done between the Brio + Amaze + Mobilio, the actual costs should get lower as days pass. Once sales stabilize the margins etc will get to normal.

Anurag.

[damager21]

I find it strange that some people are holding on strongly to their belief that Honda has launched Mobilio as a direct competition to Ertiga. In No communication, media drive or top management interview has anyone from Honda stated this. In fact all throughout they have been saying that Mobilio will occupy a space which exists between Ertiga and Innova, which I believe it does in terms of space. If most of the consumers don't believe so then I would blame Honda marketing team for this failure.

Yes, there are quality issues which have been highlighted in some of the reviews including that of TeamBHP, but are we jumping the gun? I remember when EcoSport was launched, there were similar concerns being raised in terms of fitment. In fact when I visited a mall in Mumbai to check out EcoSport, I was shocked to see Glove box out of place, there was a loose nut in the boot, etc. But when I saw the final product in the showroom I was impressed and did not see any of these qulaity issues. Possibly some of the EcoSport owners can vouch for the same.


There are 3 more points I would like to add:
1. Yesterday I saw some comment which said that lower variants of Mobilio don't have ABS which is a shocker. The fact is it does come with ABS in lower variants of diesel. Today someone realized this and said that lower variants of petrol Mobilio don't have ABS. Do we know that the lower petrol variants of Ertiga, Polo, EcoSport, etc. do not come with ABS?

2. Unlike Maruti, Honda has capacity constraints as well. Mobilio will be manufactured at Noida plant which has a capacity of 10k units per month. Currently City and Brio are also getting shipped from Noida plant thereby leaving very limited bandwidth. City already has a 6 months wait period. The last thing Honda would have done was to launch Mobilio at a low price, rack up sales of 5k units per month and keep customers waiting for 1 year.

Looking at this reaction, Honda would be very happy with its decision not to launch Vezel in India.

3. I don't know if anyone has put their thoughts into this. Honda per month on an average sells 15,000 units while Maruti sells 95,000 units. So essentially, Honda's 6.3 months sale is equal to Maruti's 1 month sale. Can you imagine the economies of scale Maruti would be enjoying on every unit sold and hence the profits? If you look at Amaze which is priced at 4.99 lacs and compare that with Dzire which is sold at 4.85 lacs, is this gap of 14k justified? Amaze on an average sells 7k units per month while Dzire sells a whopping 18k units per month. Why not blame Maruti for pocketing huge profits? In FY13 Honda India made a loss of INR 1,300 crore. Compare that with Maruti which made a profit of INR 2,469 crore.

I think people should restraint themselves before posting comments about Honda being greedy for profits. At least these numbers don't suggest so.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by damager21

I think people should restraint themselves before posting comments about Honda being greedy for profits. At least these numbers don't suggest so.

Interesting point. But it is not about how much profit does Maruti make on every car. The issue is that Maruti is the benchmark in most of the segments that it competes in. So in the Dzire vs Amaze case, Dzire is the segment leader. And hence any new launch by a rival company will be compared with the Dzire and hence the need for competitive pricing. Same goes for the Ertiga vs Mobilio. Which one is helping its parent company earn more profit is not the point. A customer will tend to choose whatever car appears more VFM to him. And Honda has clearly outpriced the Mobilio and by quite some margin to be honest.

Regarding the positioning of the car, Honda can say whatever they want and that they are not competing with Ertiga. But the fact is that the Mobilio offers nothing more to justify the statement that it is positioned between the Ertiga and Innova and not bang opposite the Ertiga. If it had better built and better features then one could have accepted this fact. But that is not the case. So Honda can say its a whole different segment that they want to create with the Mobilio but the reality is that they will find every prospective customer having Ertiga on there alternative car list too!

[jesrani]

There's a lot of Honda bashing going on, but how many have actually gone and checked out the car. I and my wife took a back to back TD of Mobilio and City today, both of us drove both cars.

The City is excellent, spaciour, nice interiors, 6 gears, feels premium and lot of features. We have already boked the VMT Diesel. The power is good, engine is quite silent, NVH not an issue at all, gears are short and superb, braking is good and there is some space to rest the left foot, though not as much as in my SX4. Back seat is marvellous, but I feel the depth is less than SX4. Can looks fabulous from outside too.

The Mobile is not bad at all. Outside fit and finish, paint job and design is very good. The inside is plane, not premium but quality feels good. The car was as good to drive as the City. NVH slightly worse but only when revving more, otherwise not a problem at all. Our 3 year old Punto makes a lot more noise. My wife sat in the 3rd seat and had absolutely no trouble hearing me, I did not have to shout. The NVH is definitely controlled. The dash is very simple for the price they are asking. But then if they gave a dash and features like the City, who would buy the City? We both felt the space is excellent. With the 2nd seat all the way back, there is still good room in the 3rd seat. But it is for children or short adults. Otherwise a single person can sit sideways at ease. My wife liked it more than the Ertiga in terms of space. The windows are large and it is not clausterophobic inside. I wish they had at least given more power sockets and priced a bit lower. But the pricing is too close to the City so if you don't really need the 3rd seat, no point in going for the Mobilio. But it's definitely worth checking out. There was a lot of rush at the dealership.

We also checked out the Verna. I like it but the back seat space is poor and windows small. Otherwise the fit finish is superb and excellent features.

We also looked at the EcoSport. Just opening and closing the door gives an idea of the excellent workmanship. Thud. Superb. Excellent car, really love it. But we had to reject it because of small boot, can't do with it.

We are going to stick with the City this time, going to be a first time experience with Honda

[ramassrs]

Excellent Review! I must say that Team-BHP reviews are far better by a long stretch than the reviews in popular magazines!

I own a Maruti Ertiga VDi since Aug-2012 and one of the key differences that I noticed (though this is ONLY by reading and by viewing photographs) is that the 3rd seating in Ertiga seems to be better.

My own experience of having had medium sized adults and kids travel excess of 300 km in the Ertiga is that nobody really complained about being uncomfortable in the last row.

Sure, the Mobilio beats Ertiga in engine power, FE and boot space. Overall as a package, probably Ertiga is better put together - again a personal opinion.