[hysys]

Originally Posted by ashis89

The MID readings are usually optimistic on most cars. My experience with a Baleno, Jazz and i20 tells me that the MID overstates the FE by 1.5-2.5 kmpl on these cars. I believe there is no method such to correct this error and the magnitude of the error remains fairly consistent. You can verify the margin of error and its consistency. Once known, you can mentally discount the values observed in the MID by the known error.

There could also be an error in the quantity of fuel being dispensed by the fuel pumps which in turn, would contribute to difference in calculated FE and MID value.

Yes. The FE shown is 2.4 kmpl more than what i actually got.
240 km /11 ltrs = 21.8 kmpl
MID showing 24.2 kmpl.

Secondly Ashis, i tried this on 3 different fuel outlets. two BPCL & one Reliance. Result is almost same. Error of almost 10%. Is it possible that all three dispense 10% less fuel than what is shown on their meters ?

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by hysys

Yes. The FE shown is 2.4 kmpl more than what i actually got.
240 km /11 ltrs = 21.8 kmpl
MID showing 24.2 kmpl.

Secondly Ashis, i tried this on 3 different fuel outlets. two BPCL & one Reliance. Result is almost same. Error of almost 10%. Is it possible that all three dispense 10% less fuel than what is shown on their meters ?

Same error in the dispenser of 3 different fuel bunks is very unlikely.
The MID on your car must be showing optimistic values. Similar optimistic values have been reported by others as well on vehicles of different make and should not be a cause of concern. Other Zest owners can confirm the margin of error noticed between the MID values and the actual TOT calculation.

[srvm]

Originally Posted by hysys

Yes. The FE shown is 2.4 kmpl more than what i actually got.
240 km /11 ltrs = 21.8 kmpl
MID showing 24.2 kmpl.

Secondly Ashis, i tried this on 3 different fuel outlets. two BPCL & one Reliance. Result is almost same. Error of almost 10%. Is it possible that all three dispense 10% less fuel than what is shown on their meters ?

Originally Posted by ashis89

Same error in the dispenser of 3 different fuel bunks is very unlikely.
The MID on your car must be showing optimistic values. Similar optimistic values have been reported by others as well on vehicles of different make and should not be a cause of concern. Other Zest owners can confirm the margin of error noticed between the MID values and the actual TOT calculation.

Owner of Zest Revotron here since Feb-2016. I have driven around 18,000 kms so far. In my case, MID has consistently displayed exactly 2 kmpl above actual FE calculated from tankful-to-tankful method. Hope this helps.

[hysys]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Same error in the dispenser of 3 different fuel bunks is very unlikely.
The MID on your car must be showing optimistic values. Similar optimistic values have been reported by others as well on vehicles of different make and should not be a cause of concern. Other Zest owners can confirm the margin of error noticed between the MID values and the actual TOT calculation.

Will DTE shown also be an optimistic figure ? Likely by the same margin of error !!
DTE shown would have been 44 ltrs (tankful as per brochure) x 24.2 kmpl (shown on MID) = 1064 km.
But car would run out of fuel 100 km earlier !! (10% error)

How is DTE calculated ? How they consider amount of fuel left in the tank ? By level indicator or weight of the fuel ?

[Ravindra M]

Originally Posted by srvm

Owner of Zest Revotron here since Feb-2016. I have driven around 18,000 kms so far. In my case, MID has consistently displayed exactly 2 kmpl above actual FE calculated from tankful-to-tankful method. Hope this helps.

Instrument clusters are calibrated with proper deviations :
1. Fuel Economy : 5% to 10% on higher-side
2. Engine RPM : 2 to 4% on higher side
3. Vehicle Speed : 2 to 5% on higher side

This is done for ensuring safety margins as well as feel-good factor

[parth.jain]

I own a Aug'15 Zest XT QDJ. It has around 59,xxx kms on the clock and I am going to take it for it's fourth scheduled service in the coming week.

I am having a weird problem with the clutch. Though the clutch was already a little hard (I would say normal for a car with 60k kms on the odo) but since two days, the clutch is getting half stuck randomly while changing gears or while using clutch in traffic. I have to lift the clutch back up with with my foot and then it starts working absolutely fine. I have noticed this happens usually in the 1st or 2nd gear.

Can someone share some light on what can be the issue? I would like to have some opinion before I go to the service centre as I believe 60k is too soon for the clutch to be changed (My daily driving doesn't involve much clutch usage).

[cogWheel]

Originally Posted by parth.jain

I am having a weird problem with the clutch. Though the clutch was already a little hard ... the clutch is getting half stuck randomly while changing gears or while using clutch in traffic. I have to lift the clutch back up with with my foot and then it starts working absolutely fine. ...I believe 60k is too soon for the clutch to be changed (My daily driving doesn't involve much clutch usage).

A "sticky" clutch pedal usually points to problems with the clutch master (or slave) cylinders. Low transmission oil levels due to a leak, air trapped in the system or a worn out cylinder could be the culprits. May require replacement of cylinder(s) in worst case scenario. Get to a service center at the earliest. A clutch failure while driving can be an unpleasant experience.

[vishnusv]

Originally Posted by parth.jain

I am having a weird problem with the clutch. Though the clutch was already a little hard (I would say normal for a car with 60k kms on the odo) but since two days, the clutch is getting half stuck randomly while changing gears or while using clutch in traffic. I have to lift the clutch back up with with my foot and then it starts working absolutely fine. I have noticed this happens usually in the 1st or 2nd gear.
.

This might be a sign of clutch master/slave cylinders needing replacement. Please make sure that it is addressed asap or you might end up stranded on the road.

[parth.jain]

Originally Posted by cogWheel

A "sticky" clutch pedal usually points to problems with the clutch master (or slave) cylinders. Low transmission oil levels due to a leak, air trapped in the system or a worn out cylinder could be the culprits. May require replacement of cylinder(s) in worst case scenario. Get to a service center at the earliest. A clutch failure while driving can be an unpleasant experience.

Originally Posted by vishnusv

This might be a sign of clutch master/slave cylinders needing replacement. Please make sure that it is addressed asap or you might end up stranded on the road.

Hi,
I went to the ASC on Friday for the 60k kms service as well as for addressing the clutch issue.
First I went to Concorde Motors, Mohan cooperative estate in the morning. After the test drive they said:

1) Clutch needs to be replaced since the clutch is a little hard & the gears were slotting only when the clutch was pressed fully. As per the SE, if the master cylinder or slave cylinder were broken, the clutch won't come back at all and will be depressed fully. ( Estimate of around Rs 7,500 without the flywheel & GST)

2) The suspension was making some noise & a few components might need to be replaced. I asked him to do greasing for suspension and that might solve this issue.

3) He told me that the timing chain for the 90PS version is to be replaced at 60k kms and if I don't get it changed there will be trouble for my warranty. (Estimate of around 10-12k pre GST)

4) The estimate for the 60k service was around Rs 10,000 for the oil, filters, labour, suspension greasing etc.

In the end, what I understood was that I will have to spend Rs 30,000 for a 2 year old car with 60,000 km on the odo just for regular maintenance (Without anything broken down).
Since I was asked to drop the car for 2 days since it was already noon and the car wouldn't be completed in one day, I took the car off as I needed the car next day urgently.

After that, I visited newly opened Treo Motors in Vasant Kunj as it was not much of a detour for me and I was getting SMS and calls from them since a week that they have opened a new TATA workshop and requested me to visit them for my car's service.

I went there talked them about the issue. They also told me :

1) It is recommended by TATA for the 90 PS to change the timing chain at 60k kms and if I don't get it done now, there will be trouble in claiming warranty in case something goes wrong with the engine related to timing chain. I asked them if the timing chain can be inspected and checked whether it needs immediate replacement, they said it's not possible as everything is sealed. (I wonder how they can change it if everything is sealed)

2) They also told me the clutch needs to be replaced and the master cylinder and slave cylinder cannot be inspected for damage. As per them if the master cylinder was damaged all the break oil would have leaked and the clutch pedal won't come back up and will be fully depressed.

I asked them to do a basic 60k service for oil and filters change. There was some discount going on and in total the bill was Rs 6,200. I did not opt for engine flushing and engine oil additive (Rs 1300).
Surprisingly, the clutch is a lot better after the service (Nothing clutch related was done), is not stucking anymore and the gears are slotting a lot better. The suspension noises are also gone and the car is running fine.
As per their introductory offer, they also dry cleaned my seats

When I bought the car from Tuli Motors, I specifically asked them what is the recommended kms for the change of timing belt and I was told since Zest has a timing chain instead of a timing belt, it needs to be replaced at 90,000 kms.

Though the car is running fine, I am still amazed that the clutch has worn out at 60k kms. Of all the cars I have owned earlier, the clutch has always lasted for about a lakh kms before replacement since my driving does not involve much clutch usage. I am shocked that the ASC cannot inspect the master & slave cylinder for the clutch issue.

Also, the timing chain replacement for 60k kms is a bit early for a car. For the 75ps version, it is recommended to be changed at 90k kms. And the timing belt also cannot be inspected, is a bit shocking.


I am currently not in the mood of spending Rs 20k more just for the regular maintenance of my car and wondering whether it is really required to get the timing chain & clutch replaced at the ASC. Also, I am scared that if the timing chain of Zest 90PS is indeed pretty fragile and would break at 60k kms and I would end up getting my Zest's engine seized.

What should I do?

[condor]

Originally Posted by parth.jain

Also, the timing chain replacement for 60k kms is a bit early for a car. For the 75ps version, it is recommended to be changed at 90k kms. And the timing belt also cannot be inspected, is a bit shocking.

One thing I do is -check my owners manual for service schedule before I go for service. What the two service centers have said is same as what is said in your owners manual. Timing chain for the 90ps quadrajet engine has a replacement interval of 60km or 24 months, which ever comes first. While one may extend it a bit after checking to ensure the chain is fine, but it is at risk of the chain breaking and causing damage internally. Such damage is going to be expensive.

For the Zest 90 ps, you would also need to change the drive belts at 60k // 24 months.

I do agree that 2 yrs is early, but the two TASS units have not pushed anything out of the recommended schedule. I myself changed the timing belt on my Storme @ 4.5 yrs. The recommended interval is 1.05 Lakh km -or- 5 years.

[parth.jain]

Originally Posted by condor

For the Zest 90 ps, you would also need to change the drive belts at 60k // 24 months.

I do agree that 2 yrs is early, but the two TASS units have not pushed anything out of the recommended schedule. I myself changed the timing belt on my Storme @ 4.5 yrs. The recommended interval is 1.05 Lakh km -or- 5 years.

I am not condemning the ASC for advising to change the timing chain. I know that it is recommended by TATA but I think 60k is too early for a major expense that too for a budget compact sedan.
Also I am curious why the condition of timing chain, clutch cylinders cannot be inspected by them . If that too is a design problem, than the problem is with the design of the car.

Anyways, the both the ASC personnel were polite and friendly. They can't help with the prescribed maintenance schedule of the car.

[condor]

Originally Posted by parth.jain

I know that it is recommended by TATA but I think 60k is too early for a major expense that too for a budget compact sedan. he Also I am curious why the condition of timing chain, clutch cylinders cannot be inspected by them .

Reading your post made me realize that I too have not checked this aspect of servicing when buying the cars. Luckily for me so far, these changes have been at sufficiently long intervals. For your current situation, if you can wait till Wednesday, I can update you on whether the chain can be inspected or not. I am going for my 60k servicing, and will ask my SA & the supervisor who I know quite well.

[parth.jain]

Originally Posted by condor

For your current situation, if you can wait till Wednesday, I can update you on whether the chain can be inspected or not. I am going for my 60k servicing, and will ask my SA & the supervisor who I know quite well.

If you can do that, that will be too helpful!
Also, if you can ask them whether the master cylinder and slave cylinder can be inspected as well?

Thanks a ton!

[hysys]

Originally Posted by parth.jain

I am not condemning the ASC for advising to change the timing chain. I know that it is recommended by TATA but I think 60k is too early for a major expense that too for a budget compact sedan.
Also I am curious why the condition of timing chain, clutch cylinders cannot be inspected by them . If that too is a design problem, than the problem is with the design of the car.

Anyways, the both the ASC personnel were polite and friendly. They can't help with the prescribed maintenance schedule of the car.

TATA motors has to decide these service/parts replace intervals. Once it is given in the service chart, we can't question the ASC people. If we do not follow the service manual, we risk the warranty.

I also observed during my ownership of VISTA QJD that, the service and oil change interval was different for VISTA and PUNTO. Having the same engine, they could use same oil and same oil change interval.

In my VISTA QJD, once clutch bottomed all of a sudden on a speed breaker while changing the gear. Pedal didn't return at all. Clutch oil drained. Car was towed to a mechanic and one of the cylinders at bottom side was replaced. Appeared like plastic part (light in weight), non repairable. Costed some Rs. 800 approx in the market.

[simplyself]

Originally Posted by condor

For the Zest 90 ps, you would also need to change the drive belts at 60k // 24 months.

I do agree that 2 yrs is early, but the two TASS units have not pushed anything out of the recommended schedule. I myself changed the timing belt on my Storme @ 4.5 yrs. The recommended interval is 1.05 Lakh km -or- 5 years.

I don't think the timing chain on 90 diesel has any time bound change. It's true that it is recommended to change the kit at 60,000 km. A TASS manager said I need not bother with changing but I had additional warranty of up to 4 years or 1.5 lakh km, so I preferred to change.

However, Tata are offering an AMC covering 60 K and 75 K service for about Rs.14,500.00. Better to opt for that as the 60K service cost comes to about Rs.14K. With this AMC option, at about nearly the same amount, one would get 75K service for free.