[saket77]

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

My take is, why are we made to chose between better ownership experience and fun? Why are the days of 5 speed Maruti 800, Alto 1.1, Zen, Esteem, Baleno all gone? It is the same manufacturer after all. Baleno was hell of a machine.

The exact point I have made before on the forum so many times. MUL is the same manufacturer. But probably their ideologies have changed. From business sense, it must be working for them to command more than double of the market share of their closest competitor. But sadly for the 'enthusiasts' they have not much in the stable, who once had many such cars. It is insanely insane that why cannot we have a fun to drive car which is reliable and maintenance is easy on the pocket for an average Indian? If that was possible in past for Maruti, why not today with even better & advanced technology? Knock knock MUL, please give us a couple of hatchbacks & sedans which are fun to drive. I am sure the vast service network and being MUL what it is, will take care of the rest.

[blacksport]

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

It is the same manufacturer after all. Baleno was hell of a machine.

Considering that it was the SX4 that replaced the Baleno, and the Ciaz that replaced the SX4, it is not difficult to see the direction Maruti is taking. It is a very sad truth.

Originally Posted by saket77

It is insanely insane that why cannot we have a fun to drive car which is reliable and maintenance is easy on the pocket for an average Indian?

Fiesta? Is fun to drive, Ford does not have reliability issues and maintenance is low, I guess.

[srameshdelhi]

Originally Posted by saket77

But sadly for the 'enthusiasts' they have not much in the stable, who once had many such cars. It is insanely insane that why cannot we have a fun to drive car which is reliable and maintenance is easy on the pocket for an average Indian? If that was possible in past for Maruti, why not today with even better & advanced technology? Knock knock MUL, please give us a couple of hatchbacks & sedans which are fun to drive. I am sure the vast service network and being MUL what it is, will take care of the rest.

Maruti is King at 800 to 1300 cc engines. This range of engines give a zippy drive with cars that are lighter. 800, Alto, Zen, Wagon R, Ritz, Swift all were lighter cars and we found them good due to the power to weight ratio. The problem started when Desire became success though it wasn't zippy. Powerful SX4 was a failure. Underpowered Ertiga is a success. Going by this, what else Maruti will do? They will give what most of the customer wants (Read : Lesser power but more FE). For those who want power which is anyway minority in India, they have Gypsy to offer (HaHaHa...)

[saket77]

Originally Posted by srameshdelhi

Maruti is King at 800 to 1300 cc engines. This range of engines give a zippy drive with cars that are lighter. 800, Alto, Zen, Wagon R, Ritz, Swift all were lighter cars and we found them good due to the power to weight ratio. The problem started when Desire became success though it wasn't zippy.

Probably that was more than just light weight. Not discounting the light weight in all but I still find the engines of Esteem, Zen & the Baleno incredibly rev happy at all ranges which is sorely missing in the current engines. Those engines revved all the way to the redline without a fuss and that too pretty smoothly. That was the secret of the fantastic drive. Also, handling of the low slung cars (which is mostly a past thing now) were inherently better.

Regards,
Saket

[itsashishsharma]

Originally Posted by srameshdelhi

Maruti is King at 800 to 1300 cc engines. This range of engines give a zippy drive with cars that are lighter. 800, Alto, Zen, Wagon R, Ritz, Swift all were lighter cars and we found them good due to the power to weight ratio. The problem started when Desire became success though it wasn't zippy. Powerful SX4 was a failure. Underpowered Ertiga is a success. Going by this, what else Maruti will do? They will give what most of the customer wants (Read : Lesser power but more FE). For those who want power which is anyway minority in India, they have Gypsy to offer (HaHaHa...)

It is not only about engines, Baleno's engine wasn't as happy to revv as the ones in the Zen and the Esteem. It was very comfortable, though it went too loud, at redline. With good experience with all these cars, I can say that the K series 1.2 non VVT is one of the best of this lot, v. revv friendly and wants to be redlined. Coupled with the slick gearbox, and the excellent gear ratios, the petrol old Swift is among the best of this lot, but still, I miss driving my father's Baleno, and that is not because of it's 1.6L engine, which though powerful, lacks a li'l punch, but because of the excellent driving dynamics Baleno had. That spot on steering, sportier suspension and a balanced chassis. Baleno's suspension is too stiff and steering too light at parking speeds, but as it climbs up the speed, you can notice how brilliantly the suspension softens and the steering picks weight. I drove a Palio when my father got his Baleno, and believe me, I loved driving my Palio, but driving the Baleno was always a pleasure, I preffered the Baleno over my Palio, any single day. When the Punto was launched, I went to take a TD in the Baleno, took the TD, went back to the Baleno and thoroughly liked how t felt driving it. I just love how well Fiats ride and Fords handle, but with the Baleno, everything was just right. My cousin brother got the All New Honda City in 2011, I just couldn't make peace with what happened with the 1st gen City, the City still is good only, and probably best petrol, apart from the Vento's 1.2 TSi, but still, I can't understand, why the same reliable and pocket friendly car can't be as good to drive also.

[joe_antony]

Originally Posted by saket77

Knock knock MUL, please give us a couple of hatchbacks & sedans which are fun to drive. I am sure the vast service network and being MUL what it is, will take care of the rest.

Swift is fun to drive, so I am good with the hatchback account. They have just missed the magic with sedans, Ciaz suppose to have that magic, but in papers it doesn't , we have to get it in flesh and see.

[Rubbertramps]

Originally Posted by joe_antony

Swift is fun to drive, so I am good with the hatchback account. They have just missed the magic with sedans, Ciaz suppose to have that magic, but in papers it doesn't , we have to get it in flesh and see.

I own a Swift ZXI and believe me it is not fun to drive. The second gear is so damn laggy that it reminds me of my first generation Punto MJD. All tuned for fuel efficiency

[Visaster]

Just got the price quote from my dealer. In the Ciaz is no VFM car. Its priced higher than it should be for a small engine they offer. Half the people pay for the size of a car and careless about the engine.

Anyways the other shocking part was the price difference between the VDi and VDi+ is a whooping +Rs90000/-.

In terms of extra you get a 1inch bigger alloy, chrome and leather seat.
Is it really worth it opt for the Zdi+, definitely not.

Can get leather seat and alloys for a cost of 60K in the outside market, with better fit and finish, and good looking alloys.

[itsashishsharma]

Originally Posted by Visaster

Anyways the other shocking part was the price difference between the VDi and VDi+ is a whooping +Rs90000/-.

In terms of extra you get a 1inch bigger alloy, chrome and leather seat.
Is it really worth it opt for the Zdi+, definitely not.

Can get leather seat and alloys for a cost of 60K in the outside market, with better fit and finish, and good looking alloys.

Are you sure? I am not defending the car or the price difference, but I think VDi+ has ABS and driver's airbag too, which is the main differentiator, and how about music system?

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by Visaster

Anyways the other shocking part was the price difference between the VDi and VDi+ is a whooping +Rs90000/-.

In terms of extra you get a 1inch bigger alloy, chrome and leather seat.
Is it really worth it opt for the Zdi+, definitely not.

Can get leather seat and alloys for a cost of 60K in the outside market, with better fit and finish, and good looking alloys.

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

Are you sure? I am not defending the car or the price difference, but I think VDi+ has ABS and driver's airbag too, which is the main differentiator, and how about music system?

Yes, the difference between VDi and VDi+ is more than leather seats and alloys, you can check the below list for more details,

[tejas08]

Originally Posted by Visaster

Anyways the other shocking part was the price difference between the VDi and VDi+ is a whooping +Rs90000/-.

In terms of extra you get a 1inch bigger alloy, chrome and leather seat.
Is it really worth it opt for the Zdi+, definitely not.

Can get leather seat and alloys for a cost of 60K in the outside market, with better fit and finish, and good looking alloys.

I guess you wanted to say the difference between ZDi & ZDi+ variants instead of VDi & VDi+ variants.

Yes, in ZDi & ZDi+, the differences indicated by you are correct, but there is also an addition of the smart infotainment system which is a touch-screen music system as explained in the review.

It is, of course, an individual's call on whether he wants to pay to the dealer for these additional stuff and have peace of mind related to any warranties and stuff (Only issue would be the touchscreen infotainment if an aftermarket fitment is used similar to the one being by MSIL) or forget the touchscree system given by MSIL and be happy with the ones in ZDi and have alloys and leather upholstery fitted from outside.

[itsashishsharma]

Originally Posted by tejas08

I guess you wanted to say the difference between ZDi & ZDi+ variants instead of VDi & VDi+ variants.

Yes, in ZDi & ZDi+, the differences indicated by you are correct, but there is also an addition of the smart infotainment system which is a touch-screen music system as explained in the review.

It is, of course, an individual's call on whether he wants to pay to the dealer for these additional stuff and have peace of mind related to any warranties and stuff (Only issue would be the touchscreen infotainment if an aftermarket fitment is used similar to the one being by MSIL) or forget the touchscree system given by MSIL and be happy with the ones in ZDi and have alloys and leather upholstery fitted from outside.

Yes, i think you are right. As long as they are giving basic safety features, a decent music system, steering mounted controls and driver's seat height adjustable, it is a good proposition for me but I really think that if I am buying a C segment sedan, which is getting compared to City, I should get at least two airbags in VDi+, just for an additional airbag, say if I am not interested in all the bells n whistles a ZDi has, I should not be made to pay a hefty amount.
All this makes the Zest something I really like as a product, they are giving ABS with EBD and CSC in all variants except the base and you get 2 airbags if you pay 18k more on top of the basic variant with ABS, and you get driver seat height adjust too, isn't it great?
Also, when you compare with the competetion, the XMS version is the one with all this, while the competetion gives you a bare minimum power windows as a feature, along with a basic music system and electronic mirrors, the Zest also has Alloys with better 185 Bridgestone rubber, while we all know what competetion gives for the same money.
City has been the segment leader for long, and I would have loved if Maruti had given their heart and soul to this product as Tata did with the Zest.

[Max]

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

I should get at least two airbags in VDi+, just for an additional airbag, say if I am not interested in all the bells n whistles a ZDi has, I should not be made to pay a hefty amount.

Indian government should make air bags mandatory in all cars. Ministry of Road Transport and Highways of India, anyone reading this?

I was watching satya mev jayate yesterday and guy from ARAI was saying it cost manufacturer only $50 (Rs.3000) to fit one air bag in a car. Imagine you have to shell out 1.5 Lakhs $2500 just for basic safety features. Who cares about leather seats, infotainment system!!

[Visaster]

Originally Posted by arun_josie

Yes, the difference between VDi and VDi+ is more than leather seats and alloys, you can check the below list for more details,

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

Are you sure?

Originally Posted by tejas08

I guess you wanted to say the difference between ZDi & ZDi+ variants instead of VDi & VDi+ variants.

Totally my bad. I wanted to say difference between the ZDI and the ZDI(O). In Chennai the cost difference between these two models is Rs90K appx.

ZDI + is the one which comes with the smartinfo system and not yet launched and will be costing another 40k more i feel.

So ZDI makes more sense than the ZDI (O) or the ZDI (+) IMHO

[bhaskaracs]

Originally Posted by Visaster

Totally my bad. I wanted to say difference between the ZDI and the ZDI(O). In Chennai the cost difference between these two models is Rs90K appx.

So ZDI makes more sense than the ZDI (O) or the ZDI (+) IMHO

Absolutely when you are buying this in Chennai as ZDI (O) ex-showroom is priced above 10 lakhs and the Road tax steps up from 10% to 15%. The difference in ex-showroom prices is only Rs 35000 which becomes an ungainly 90000 OTR as the price swings above 10 lakhs. For North India customers it may be worth considering given the price remains below 10L.

I think this is something State/central RTOs should consider - OTR pricing differential (huge as a result of protracted road tax rates above 10 laks) across cities.