[Aroy]

I have had throttle body cleaned as due to short trips it had accumulated a lot of soot. My FNG (Maruti certified!) charged me around 1000 for the whole job which included dismantling, cleaning new gaskets and putting it all back.

My regular service station is a MASS and not a dealer workshop, as I always want to see what is done to my car.

What has happened to you is a well oiled SCAM perpetuated on the unwary. Well all I can say is that is the cost of education, now a days. In future ensure that any repair undertaken is with your concurrence only.

[Leoshashi]

The bill is so typical of a dealer owned workshop. It further strengthens my belief of avoiding them for any service.

It is daylight loot, for lack of a more polite word. The only thing I can request all Maruti owners is to avoid these dealer owned workshops. They'll charge you even for the smallest of the job done.

My MASS(not dealer owned) hooks up SDTs everytime my car visits them, and if they start billing me for such small things, I'd probably be bankrupt by now. I was once at the receiving end of such a scam, when I requested my dealer workshop to check my battery, and they duly charged me 300 bucks for a simple testing with a multimeter.

I don't wish to repeat the same things in this thread too, so request you all to kindly visit this link.
MASS vs Dealer workshops

IMO, BHPian frostbite911 should register a complaint with Maruti's call centre, and when they call you for feedback, give them the worst possible rating you can.

Regards,
Shashi

[Sherlocked]

Originally Posted by frostbite911

Duly noted! Will it be of any use to escalate this now? I have already paid for this and taken the car. Haven't got the feedback call yet

Did the SA took your permission before carrying on all these jobs?
If you were not given the details of all these items in your job sheet with the approximate costs while you were handing them over the car, then you can surely escalate to Maruti citing that the work carried on was not authorized by me.

Call on their Helpline and complain there only. Don't wait for the feedback call. Many a times this feedback call is done by the same dealer only.

[frostbite911]

Originally Posted by Sherlocked

Did the SA took your permission before carrying on all these jobs?
If you were not given the details of all these items in your job sheet with the approximate costs while you were handing them over the car, then you can surely escalate to Maruti citing that the work carried on was not authorized by me.

Call on their Helpline and complaint there only. Don't wait for the feedback call. Many a times this feedback call is done by the same dealer only.

Sadly he did, and that was my mistake. He told me it would cost around 13k, I told him that's way too much. He said this service is a major service where everything is changed and that's why it will cost this much. I really did't have much of a choice. He also mentioned AC cleaning which is carried out during this service interval. Again, my mistake for not checking before hand if it is needed during this service interval and how much it costs.:(

[JLS]

Originally Posted by frostbite911

Sadly he did, and that was my mistake. He told me it would cost around 13k, I told him that's way too much. He said this service is a major service where everything is changed and that's why it will cost this much. I really did't have much of a choice. He also mentioned AC cleaning which is carried out during this service interval. Again, my mistake for not checking before hand if it is needed during this service interval and how much it costs.:(

As a car owner one is not supposed to know or remember, what is needed during a particular service. Hence, you can simply take out the service booklet, open the specific service page and show it to SA. Tell him in simple terms that what ever is mandatorily required as per the service manual only need to be done. Try this for few times and then service center guys will know not to mess up with you.
I get my cars serviced at dealer workshop and though service cost reaches 7K (oil semi synthetic oil change etc), I do not get anything extra in my bill which is not warranted by Maruti.

Regards,
JLS

[frostbite911]

Originally Posted by frostbite911

So I just completed my 4th service i.e. my first paid service at MASS. The bill came to a whopping 13,600 inc taxes! The only complaints I had were tyre and brake noise. I'm really not sure as to why the bill costs so much. The only thing I requested for was synthetic oil which costs 3k. Other than that, labour charges were through the roof.

Are these charges legit?

Attachment 1613437

UPDATE:

Sent Maruti a complaint, the dealer responded within hours. I spoke to them and mentioned some of the services that were done were expensive and not required. They initially tried to defend themselves but knew what they did was wrong. They tried to settle by offering coupons to which I said I'm not interested. Finally got a call from one of the senior managers, I explained to him about what happened, he agreed and offered a cash refund of 2500 for labour costs. He said parts are already installed, so he can't offer any refund for that. Finally agreed to the refund. One of the SA's from Khivraj came to my office and gave me the refund in cash. All this happened in 24hrs.

Lesson learnt: Always read the manual and check costs prior to service and avoid Khivraj the next time out. Hopefully nobody else here will have to face such an issue.

Special thanks to all the BHPians here who helped me regarding this.

[sairamboko]

Hi All - Is there an option to convert Alto K10 AMT to LPG? My daily commute has increased and one of my options was to convert my Alto AMT to LPG if possible. Any pointers appreciated.

[abhinav.s]

Originally Posted by sairamboko

Hi All - Is there an option to convert Alto K10 AMT to LPG? My daily commute has increased and one of my options was to convert my Alto AMT to LPG if possible. Any pointers appreciated.

Should definitely be possible. Maruti themselves should have certified kits as they had Wagon R LPG if i remember right. Getting this should sort out the issue. But let me warn you, the drive experience is not at all going to be the same. Net-net ensure it is really worth the investment in this conversion in terms of your running cost before going ahead with it.

[PraNeel]

Originally Posted by frostbite911

UPDATE:

Sent Maruti a complaint, the dealer responded within hours. Finally got a call from one of the senior managers, I explained to him about what happened, he agreed and offered a cash refund of 2500 for labour costs. One of the SA's from Khivraj came to my office and gave me the refund in cash.

After looking at your bill and since you gave your permission they should have charged you for:

PMS (Periodic Maintenance Service)
Throttle Body Cleaning (Since you agreed)

All other charges are there to inflate the bill. Even after 2500 refund the labour costs stand at 5100 which is atrocious to say the least.

So the summary is - These days Maruti owner has to be educated about vehicle maintenance and should understand all the work that SA is proposing before signing off. Otherwise be ready for shocking bills like these.

[Wanderlust89]

Disconnecting the Electric Power steering (EPS)

The bounciness in ride and the vague steering are the biggest grouse of driving the new Alto K10. Take the new Alto K10 out on the highway and hit triple digit speeds and one will understand how the flighty nature of the car makes you to hold the steering as firm as possible. Even a slight input would send the spinal nerves a jerk and a little more input could even throw the car off the road. One statement in the official review reads “This is the scariest car I have driven” and I have no objection over this statement. To be frank and long story short, the drive on the highway in the new Alto k10 is simply not confidence inspiring at all. Period.

I have been pondering over to overcome these issues from the start. There are various methods of addressing it like switching to better tyres, upgrading the suspension etc, but it all involves pumping in cash. But I wanted something that doesn’t consume my precious time & money. And it has to be something that doesn’t alter the OE fitment much.

There has been a long debate on the Electric vs. Hydraulic steerings with a good population supporting either one of it, since they both have an upper hand over the other. Hydraulic steering gives the feel of the surface it is being driven, but consumes power from the engine resulting in considerable loss of fuel efficiency. EPS on the other hand is good for city driving and does not suffer on the fuel efficiency part, but not as lively as the hydraulic steering.

Whatsoever, an EPS has never been the cup of tea for the enthusiast. The vagueness or the so called ‘play station effect’ takes a toll on the driving confidence. This is more pronounced in cars like the K10. But the question here is, do the light cars really need a power assistance to steer? What about a non-assisted steering or a steering that could be turned on or off, on demand?

For any electrical part in a car there should be a fuse or relay to save the device from over currents. If the fuse or the relay is removed the device is disconnected and it doesn’t work. So I thought of removing the power-steering fuse and give it a try. I wanted to feel the real feel of my steering on the Alto K10. So went ahead and googled for the fuse location and identified it. Checked if it could pose a serious issue if removed. Nothing serious. So I decided to pull the plug off the power steering. I removed the power steering 30 A fuse and voila! Here is what happened next.

I moved it out of my parking. The steering was hard, but not so hard that I could not steer it. The EPS has been put to sleep for a while. I hit the road and tried to make a ‘U’ turn. I couldn’t make it like I used to as I had got used to assisted steerings. Had to make multi point turns to make my usual ‘U’ turn that was just a flick of the steering wheel for me before. I feel the road surface. The steering didn’t feel twitchy now. My confidence is getting boosted to alarming levels. More sportiness and stiffness/firmness in the ride is very evident. I went on to drive for a while until I get used to my new steering feel. I’m just lost of words to explain my feel now. God bless Maruti for making light cars. The “light lady’s” car is now transformed to be the “man’s monster”. Icing on the sweet cake is, it costs nothing.

What I got:
• Improved handling. The cars sticks to the line and the road feel is simply confidence inspiring.
• Steering felt lot better. The feel of the surface where the car is being driven is simply amazing.
• The bounciness has drastically reduced. Definitely not a flat ride, but not bouncy either.
• Better cornering. The car again holds the line. The skinny tires are not so evident.
• The car feels sturdy and the weightless feeling is completely gone.
• Pothole filled roads don’t destabilize the car since the feedback of the EPS is absent. There was absolute composure when taking potholes & speed breakers.
• The AMT felt a lot better. Even with AC on the jerkiness was very negligible. I suspect the ubiquitous low speed jerkiness might be because of the voltage drop due to presence of other electrical equipment. I presume the disconnected power steering should have improved the AMT mechanism or might be placebo effect. (Have to validate this for some more time to confirm)
• Finally the car felt like a tank, even if its not built like one.

What’s gone:
• The effortless parking is gone.
• Do not attempt to squeeze the car into that gap in the other lane in bumper to bumper traffic.
• Zippy drive is substantially gone and no more wheel screeching rides on ghat sections.

My preference would be, power assisted steering within the city or in bumper to bumper traffic and in ghat sections. On the highway its simply going to be non-assisted for that confidence, road feel and sustain my speedo needle pointing east.

I would recommend others who have the K10 AMT to give it a try to really get the feel of its sportiness. Since it is only just removal of the fuse, it is completely reversible and does not do much harm. This can be tried in all cars with EPS provided the weight does not bother you in cars that are built heavy. To add, light cars are a blessing in disguise. I don’t recommend for non-AMT versions as the left limbs are already doing the hard work and I don’t want to add more load and make your lovely drive a workout. The revv-happy K-series engine, the AMT and an optional EPS makes this car a desirable ride.

Welcome to the world of “Optional Power assisted steering”.

[Torino]

Originally Posted by Wanderlust89

Disconnecting the Electric Power steering (EPS) Even a slight input would send the spinal nerves a jerk and a little more input could even throw the car off the road.

That's a good find! Thanks! I will try it out soon and add to your 'what I got' points. I am very familiar to that hold-on-to-the-steering-tight feeling when driving fast especially on poorly laid highways. Yes, Keeping the car in straight line takes a lot of steering corrections and concentration. My car has crossed 49,000kms and the tyres need replacement and I am contemplating on upgrading to Yokohama Earth-1 175/60 for better ride and handling. Please share photos of fuse location for easy identification.

[Wanderlust89]

Hi Torino

I am one among the followers of your long-term ownership report and have recently read your 48000 KM update. Its good to know that the AMT is alive and kicking in your ride. Hope your driving style has adapted to the AMT and cheers for your consistent ownership report that tells the world, how good the AMT is faring.

I have attached the Fuse box chart image and the fuse identification is highlighted in Yellow. This fuse box will be under the dashboard, below the steering and offset towards the right corner. Look under the dashboard just above the accelerator pedal for a fuse box with set of fuses as illustrated in the image. You might have to kneel down try your own set of comfortable positions to reach there. This fuse box might be covered in your car but I don’t know as it was open in my car and seems like the cover is missing. Once you reach there unplug the 30A fuse for the power steering. I used my finger nails to pull it and it needed some effort. You can also choose a tool that comes to your mind to pull it, if you wish. Once it is out in your hand just insert the key and turn on (don’t start) ignition. If steering is firm you have pulled the right fuse out.

My update after driving for couple of days without power steering is, we have all the advantages I had listed in my previous. But the traffic conditions and erratic driving styles of people in Chennai made me revert to power steering. I cannot drive defensively as I used to, without the power steering. The traffic and their offensive pattern of driving tested my patience to the core. One time on my way to Besant Nagar Beach via OMR, I terribly missed the power steering that I wanted to pull over somewhere and put it back. So my suggestion for you is not to try this idea on a peak traffic day. You need a comfortable time to enjoy the difference you feel. Now I’m perplexed whether the power steering is a bless or a curse. Our lifestyle shouldn’t have become so easy that just going back to how we were, is simply pain.

Now that I have elucidated both sides of the coin, I leave it to your discernment to decide, when you need power assistance. Check it out and post your feedback.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Wanderlust89

Once you reach there unplug the 30A fuse for the power steering. .

Sorry sir, I am not experienced as much as you but is it right to pull the fuse and drive around with no assistance?

Effort part isn't my worry, I am more worried about the the motor and it's condition when the steering is used with no assistance.

Originally Posted by Wanderlust89

I used my finger nails to pull it and it needed some effort. You can also choose a tool that comes to your mind to pull it, if you wish.

Sir, open the hood, there will be a fuse box located in the engine bay, open the cover and underneath it you'll have the fuse puller tool. Right way to remove the fuse.

[Wanderlust89]

is it right to pull the fuse and drive around with no assistance?

Hello Anurag

Basically, Electrical assisted steering is not a constant input device like the power window or a wiper system. It is an assistance system where the assistance is available on demand and is not continuous. Torque sensors send signals to motor based on driver's input from the steering shaft. The motor will get damaged only if it is a continuous input system and you override it manually, which is not the actual case. Moreover the K10 EPS is not so advanced like the speed sensitive EPS in VW Polo to worry about sensors damage etc.

Now coming to the steering, it's a safety part and it is not supposed to fail even if it's supporting system fails as per ARAI requirements for India. Say for instance, on a highway trip if someone has blown his power steering fuse, the steering should still work for him to steer to save himself. Now if he hardly has any replacement fuses, he must still be able to drive until he finds the replacement. Thing is, the assistance had gone but that should not leave the driver stranded. Even if the power steering motor had blown away, the steering should still do it's basic mechanical function. Same like how brakes should work even if the booster assistance fails.

am more worried about the the motor and it's condition when the steering is used with no assistance.

The motor will completely be safe and that's the purpose of a fuse in the electric circuitry. The power steering driver circuit will continue to give it's input to the motor with the data from the sensors but the motor will not continue to assist. as the power supply is now disconnected by removal of fuse.

To add to it, there had been issues world over on the Electrical power steering fuses going kaput multiple times but still the motor being safe and sound. So an one off incident of your favorite highway stint without power assistance will do no big harm. Thanks to Maruti for it's basic assistance systems. They are simple and straightforward.

In a nutshell, safety electrical systems like head lamps, power steering, boosters are there for assistance. Failure of these should not affect the core functional areas in the car. If a head lamp fuse is gone and we still drive with light switches on, it will neither harm the head lamps nor the car. If it's okay to drive with blown fuses, so it is with no fuses.

[Chethan B G]

I had a couple of questions on the AMT:

1. AMT usage itself looks pretty simple. But is there any specific precaution that the user needs to be aware off, while driving? To avoid excessive clutch wear, to be specific.

2. In a water-logged area, what precaution should the driver take, other than using manual gear shift? Is ALTO K10 prone to issues arising from water logged roads during normal rains? In Bangalore, in some areas (Bannerghatta road for example), water level on the road can go up-to a feet during rain.

Thanks in Advance!!