[Aaron:)]

Originally Posted by speedsatya

I would advice you read other threads properly before you comment on driving " experience". I owned a Honda Diesel engined car for 20 months , drove it over 35K kms and finally sold it to a Maruti used car buyer when Honda dealers themselves refused to buy it back citing " poor resale".



My inputs are limited to the Diesel engined Jazz . On consistent sales , other than space , I do not see the Jazz offering anything different from what the Brio offers. What is the use of these features or fit n finish if they have a useless after sales service network .

One of my immediate relatives owns a 2013 Honda Amaze i-DTEC. Other than the high NVH levels, no other problems yet. Car still runs the way it did on the day it was bought. That's not to say that Hyundai is any less reliable. The same guy also owns a 2007 Verna with similar levels of reliability.
But I do agree that Honda does not have as wide a network as Maruti and people living in certain sections may have to drive long distances to get their cars serviced.

Every car will have owners who complain about the car's reliability and aftersales, be it a Hyundai, Honda, VW or Maruti.

Anyway lets get back to the topic, and I'd still say that other than better handling and a wider service network, a Jazz would do everything better than a Swift.

[WRXXX]

Originally Posted by coolmel

I agree on all parts. But even then Hyundai comes across to me as a company whose products have less character. Products have to scream character! They may have come a long way but first impression is last impression.

Hmmm... may be I am treading a fine line here.. as seeing character is usually skin deep
I think Hondas were and are all about practicality and little of character from any angle you look at it. Of-course there needs to be a fine balance between character and practicality and very few car manufacturers adopt such philosophy.

May be I fail to see the "character" part in Jazz though... I think it is outright practical car (minus the expensive price tag for a heavily localized car).

Screaming characters only rings the following cars into my head:

1. Fiat Grande Punto - (Handling, Build, Quirkiness.. and that engine note)
2. Polo GT - All fine but unwanted unreliability from the DSG
3. Swift (Hasn't really aged after 10 years of release can you believe it) - Still a favorite
among the youth. According to me Swift is and will age better than the i20.
4. May be there is a place for hotter Civic hatch here.

But I think we are going OT with the above.

What I know is you have to keep your mind open and evaluate the alternatives available today. Overall I like Suzuki's philosophy of VFM, driving Dynamics and Sales Service.
To beat that Honda has to vastly improve their sales and service and get to their company basics like Toyota has done. Shed this pseudo feeling that they are a better/premium car company than Hyundai (Which is reflecting in their pricing!!)

[vivtho]

Originally Posted by Inquilab28

How do you rate Jazz as a highway car? Is it a good choice for normal highway drives (I am talking about the rural roads included)? I am looking at this as a possible upgrade from my Tata Indigo eCS. Things I am looking at is reliability and support on a highway in case of an ugly scenario, and also good comfortable seating. Thanks in advance.

I'd also like to hear more about this - especially for the CVT version. I've started my search for a good highway tourer capable of maintaining speeds in the low triple-digits (120 max).

I'd been waiting for the Jazz since I felt that the previous generation offered the best ergonomics and premium feel in the hatchback class. Reading the review has been very underwhelming. It's still a very good car, but I don't feel that it matches up to how the old Jazz stood head and shoulders over the competition. I'm kind of okay with the lack of magic seats in the mid-range variants (subject to testing out the rear seat's comfort for myself), but I absolutely *hate* the AVN unit in all the variants. It looks like an el-cheapo Chinese knockoff and does not match the look and feel of the rest of the car - this is particularly true for the larger unit in the VX.

Does anyone have pics of the V variant in the folded position? I know that they don't fold flat, but how much space do we lose compared to the Magic Seats?

By the way, I think I've figured out why Honda calls them "Magic" seats .... it's because they've done a vanishing act from all but the VX.

[WRXXX]

Originally Posted by Aaron:)

Anyway lets get back to the topic, and I'd still say that other than better handling and a wider service network, a Jazz would do everything better than a Swift.

Agreed,
- but please add the 1L+ premium into your consideration over Swift.
- Also add that swift petrol will give better FE than the Jazz.
- and I have my doubts on ownership costs... I am dead sure about Honda charging
premium for their ignorant service team handling your baby. I have seen several
occasions where the Maruti service centers charging for the actual repair and not for
their experimentation and learning.

Many years of owning a Japanese car has told me sometimes you can do without the
service centers if you are a true blood BHPian.....may be something to do after the warranty?

[Aaron:)]

Originally Posted by WRXXX

Agreed,
- but please add the 1L+ premium into your consideration over Swift.
- Also add that swift petrol will give better FE than the Jazz.
- and I have my doubts on ownership costs... I am dead sure about Honda charging
premium for their ignorant service team handling your baby. I have seen several
occasions where the Maruti service centers charging for the actual repair and not for
their experimentation and learning.

Many years of owning a Japanese car has told me sometimes you can do without the
service centers if you are a true blood BHPian.....may be something to do after the warranty?

A car is more than just aftersales. I already made it clear that Maruti does have a wider network than Honda.

As far as Swift vs Jazz is concerned, even with Maruti's superior after sales, the Jazz is well worth the premium.

I have a 2009 City and it's maintenance costs have been comparable to a Maruti.
Honda spare parts and accident repairs do cost a bit more than Maruti and I'm not going to deny that.

[murajith]

Excellent review!! The comparison with old gen Jazz, gives better depth to the review. Rated it a well deserved 5 star.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

[center][b]To elevate comfort levels, the seatback reclines by about 3 inches! This is a segment first.

Decade old Hyundai Getz also had seat back reclines (3 position). A very convenient feature for long drives

[zavegur]

Thanks for the brilliant review. While I was going through the images, I wondered how this vehicle varied with the mule that was displayed in Feb 2014 Auto Expo New Delhi. I have attached a few images with some differences that are visible. Do add if possible!

Originally Posted by suhaas307

The new Jazz looks sharper than ever. Will appeal to mass market tastes. Large piano black grille dominates the front end. I'm glad that it doesn't have the City's excessive chrome here:

I totally agree that the black grille makes it look much sharper; the car displayed carries the same front face albeit the fog lamps; I assumed that the displayed car was of lower end.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

No escaping the massive chrome strip at the rear though. Isn't to my taste. Those unusual vertical reflectors look very Volvo-esque. Tail-pipe barely visible:

I remember very vaguely that there was no chrome at the back of the Jazz displayed. Proof is below, they had used a glossy black strip; though the image is not full this is quite indicative of the design intent. I would have preferred a similar strip to the one that is at the front.

In the image below of the displayed vehicle, you can see that the pockets behind the front seats are missing; so is the case with the fabric finish under the aluminium profile on the door.



We all hated the alloy model displayed in the Auto Expo; glad they have changed. Below image shows you the alloy wheel that was in the displayed vehicle.

Note the similar rubber beading along the rear door and a much smaller profile for the front door. They have carried the same antenna from the displayed vehicle:

Notice the displayed car's rear spoiler, it is much smaller than the one reviewed; I think the displayed car was of a lower version. Probably Honda would have added this for the top-variant as an after thought; looks brilliant though.




On the whole I think this is a lovely little car. Not much has changed since the past year or so on the design front. It definitely is a series competitor for Hyundai Elite and Polo; I still believe it is the elite which is feature rich and the Polo that is quality rich. We'll how the sales reflect.

I have attached more pics from the expo:

Z

[vishnurajanme]

Originally Posted by adimicra

Thanks for the review.
Looks like the reaction in Team BHP is highly negative. A rough guesstimate tells me that more than 90% of the opinions are negative.

Hi brother,

The thing is that, magic seats will be only used by less than one percentage of the vehicle buyers. So all these things wont be beneficial for all. But Hyundai concentrates on features that will be used by everyone in a better ergonomic way. Elite is less on space, but has much better space than Polo, Punto and Swift. So in most cases, one may not feel the lack of space in an Elite. Jazz has it much more. . Refinement is better for Elite which is the first feel you get when you start the car. Jazz buyer will be heavily disappointed in this category. Start/Stop button even though a gimmick is a good gimmick. Again, Elite has no LED backlights, but I doubt, if any one would complain. Yes, Elite sucks in fuel efficiency, and it is one of the areas where Jazz has an upper hand. To me Elite a clear winner.

[vivtho]

I was too impatient to wait for a reply to my previous post and took some time off work to view the car for myself. I visited Kothari Automotive (Bavdhan, Pune) and had the opportunity to view the VX MT and the V CVT. The TD of the V CVT wasn't available so I conducted a test drive of the S CVT variant.

Originally Posted by vivtho

I'd also like to hear more about this - especially for the CVT version. I've started my search for a good highway tourer capable of maintaining speeds in the low triple-digits (120 max).

The car does seem a little under-powered, especially in the 'D' mode. But I found it sufficient to meet my requirements. Traffic conditions didn't allow me to exceed 80 km/h but I could sense that the car still had enough reserve power to maintain 100-120 km/h when required. The lag effect of the CVT was much lesser than what I expected (note that I'm comparing it with my Hyundai i10 Sportz Auto). Overtaking maneuvers had to be planned - there is a bit of a lag between pressing the accelerator and the engine responding, but it is manageable and I suspect that only the person driving will notice it.
The situation is a lot better in the Sports mode, with the engine responding a lot quicker than in regular 'Drive' mode. Since the TD car was of the 'S' trim, it didn't feature the paddle-shifters and I couldn't test them out.

Originally Posted by vivtho

I'm kind of okay with the lack of magic seats in the mid-range variants (subject to testing out the rear seat's comfort for myself), but I absolutely *hate* the AVN unit in all the variants. It looks like an el-cheapo Chinese knockoff and does not match the look and feel of the rest of the car - this is particularly true for the larger unit in the VX.

Good news, the AVN units (in both the V and VX trims) look a lot better in person than in images. Yes, they still are very glossy but a somewhat premium gloss than the cheap shiny effect you see in some China-made electronics. That said, they are still not as good as I've seen in other cars. The UI could be a lot better. The sound quality from the speakers is above average and I don't think many customers will look to upgrade them.

I thing I still don't like about the AVN is the large empty areas that surround it.

Originally Posted by vivtho

Does anyone have pics of the V variant in the folded position? I know that they don't fold flat, but how much space do we lose compared to the Magic Seats?

By the way, I think I've figured out why Honda calls them "Magic" seats .... it's because they've done a vanishing act from all but the VX.

I checked out the comfort of the rear seats in the V (non-Magic) and the VX (Magic). While the VX is more comfortable, the difference is marginal. When folded the regular (non-Magic) seats are slightly raised above the boot's floor level. However, this difference is not that great (about 4-5 inches) and wouldn't even be noticed by most customers unless they've seen the Magic seats in action. Personally, it's not a deal-breaker for me since I don't see myself requiring that much cargo room all that often.

Some additional thoughts after seeing this car in person

• The interiors of the V trim are very good. They are beige, not black like in the VX but still look great.
• Build quality is great, but there are some areas (e.g. window sill, door panel etc.) which flex under even slight pressure and thus give the impression of being flimsy.
• The steering is a joy to hold.
• Reading the review, I was under the impression that the auto didn't feature a proper dead pedal and instead had that ghastly piece of rubber glued to the carpet. However, both auto variants I sat in (the S & the V) featured a 'proper' pedal. There still is a rubber pad on the carpet, but the floor below them is raised and allows you to place your foot at an angle. It is almost exactly the same height and angle as my i10 AT.
• The chrome trim on the rear (above the number plate) is not as bad as it looks in the images. I'm not a fan of the chrome, but I can live with it.
• The spoiler from the VX can be fitted to the V. However, it can't be done at the moment since spares are not yet available.
• Similarly, for those that want to, the AVN from the VX can be installed in the V. The executive I spoke to didn't have an exact figure for the same, but estimated it to cost about Rs.15000 extra. I personally feel that he's being optimistic and the real cost will be at least 20-25k extra.

All said and done, I'm not going to write off the Jazz just yet - but I will be waiting for the Creta before making any decision.

[Axe77]

Looks like a wonderful product and one I would love to have in the garage. Having said that, my single biggest disappointment is the absence of a VX variant for the A/T. My second disappointment is that if they had to launch the A/T only in V variant, I wish the rear seat was slightly better kitted. Adjustable headrests, 60:40 split and a flat bed area on dropping it would have been bare minimum requirements. :-(

[hellmet]

Jazz pricing Hyderabad :

[vivtho]

I forgot to attach the pricing details that I received from the dealer.

Jazz Pricing Pune

On a related note ... are dealers allowed to charge Rs. 8,000 as 'handling' fees?

[coolmel]

Originally Posted by WRXXX

Hmmm... may be I am treading a fine line here.. as seeing character is usually skin deep
I think Hondas were and are all about practicality and little of character from any angle you look at it. Of-course there needs to be a fine balance between character and practicality and very few car manufacturers adopt such philosophy.

May be I fail to see the "character" part in Jazz though... I think it is outright practical car (minus the expensive price tag for a heavily localized car).

Screaming characters only rings the following cars into my head:

1. Fiat Grande Punto - (Handling, Build, Quirkiness.. and that engine note)
2. Polo GT - All fine but unwanted unreliability from the DSG
3. Swift (Hasn't really aged after 10 years of release can you believe it) - Still a favorite
among the youth. According to me Swift is and will age better than the i20.
4. May be there is a place for hotter Civic hatch here.

But I think we are going OT with the above.

What I know is you have to keep your mind open and evaluate the alternatives available today. Overall I like Suzuki's philosophy of VFM, driving Dynamics and Sales Service.
To beat that Honda has to vastly improve their sales and service and get to their company basics like Toyota has done. Shed this pseudo feeling that they are a better/premium car company than Hyundai (Which is reflecting in their pricing!!)

Jazz does not have character??!! Haha. Quoting the 2nd gen, those cute swept back headlights, the mini MPV look, it looks something. It talks to you. Do you know its Asia's most modded car?! The Civic hatch too is a fine example. Polo? Really?? Plain vanilla styling. Swift has been a hit among the masses no doubt but not with enthusiasts. Punto is an altogether different story. The less said the better.

Either way on one side if philosophy of VFM, A.S.S is good you miss out on the fun of driving. The entire world buys mass market cars. I too have one, the point is we just got one life. Max out, get a versatile car like the Jazz is or the Punto or Linea for that matter.

Honda is definitely a better company than Hyundai by a long mile. If one wants to compare other factors at least they are reliable and reason enough to get a Honda.

[g_saunak]

Awesome review and that too almost on the same time of release... Great job guys and as always THANK YOU for the wonderful review.

There was a time i wanted Jazz to be my first car. I was quite disappointed to come across negative reviews of the car for the 2nd generation. Little did i know about driving and mechanisms of a car at that time. But it always attracted me simply due to its excellent styling and sporty dash. Then i had a chance to go to USA and encounter Honda Fit and I'm glad to see the Jazz got almost all of its styling factors. The drivability of the diesel engine looks extremely exciting (as per the review) however the petrol and CVT looks disappointing. Pricing is also not that competitive in my opinion. After all it is not as VFM as Hyundai's. Also a few loose ends like the missing feature'cover-ups' makes me sad. But let me be honest here. Why am I sad? Coz I still have my heart fixed on the Jazz. The styling is still a massive attraction to me at least

BTW. What about the safety options in Jazz? I did not read anything about air bags and ABS and stuff? Did i miss anything? Can somebody throw some light? Still haven't got time to check the official Website.

Once again, this was a wonderful review.

[suhaas307]

And once again, Honda has shot themselves in the foot.

At this price, I see no reason why anyone would buy the Jazz over the Elite i20. While the Jazz is certainly a competent product, the i20 is far more accomplished and a better package overall. Not only is it better loaded, it feels more premium, is more refined, spacious enough and looks a million bucks! The only reason why anyone would consider the Jazz over the i20 is:

-if space is high on their list of priorities, or
-if they absolutely need an automatic car.

Things I'm glad Honda rectified:

- The ride and handling. No longer is it stiff and nervous. It's supple and compliant.
- Diesel engine (This is inevitable)
- AT variant.

Things about this car that baffle me:

- No magic seats on the SV and V-MT / V-CVT. It's the car's USP for crying out loud! What if I want the CVT with magic seats?**
- Sprightly 1.2 i-VTEC in the Brio is still lethargic in the Jazz!
- Removal of key features, equipment and niceties (dual glove-box, rear AC vents, etc)
- 10.77 lakhs OTR Bangalore (Jazz i-DTEC VX). Seriously, what were they thinking?

** Our Jazz's magic-seats were recently pressed into service when we had to take our sick dog half way across town to the veterinarian. The split seats and flat loading bay allowed one of us to be seated in the back while having a makeshift mattress spread across the flat floor for our dog. We recently considered swapping our old Jazz for the new one and we will certainly want it to have magic seats. We would also want it to be the automatic variant. Looks like we can't have our cake and eat it too.

Originally Posted by coolmel

Yours and everybody's weak petrol pointers are just as bewildering. See the specs and its the most powerful engine in its class. Ask previous owners and you'll just get one line from them,' what a gem of an engine it is.' Come on AKP, Adimicra, Aaren anyone?? I think what everyone should be saying is,' Why not the 1.5l Honda??!! '

Having power is one thing. The ability to utilize all that power effectively is another! What's the point of 90 horsepowers if the damn thing takes an age to get going? Drivability is what counts at the end of the day. Don't get me wrong, I'd still call it a gem of an engine, because it's refinement is unmatched IMO. Honda should have done some calibration work to that gearbox. They should have just carried over the Brio's ratios at the very least.

Yes, not offering the 1.5 is a missed opportunity, but after looking at the pricing, I shudder to think what the 1.5 would be priced like.

Originally Posted by thehighwayman

Thanks Suhaas & Vid6639 for the great review. Had a question on the highway performance of the CVT version. When performing overtakes, do you have to manually downshift from the paddle or just stepping on the gas does the job for you?

Understanding the characteristics of the CVT is key, here. You can make brisk progress without exercising the throttle too much. Downshifting does help, but don't expect it complete overtaking maneuvers like the Polo TSI. In fact, it would require some proper planning. Mashing the pedal will only result in needless revving. The Jazz CVT is purely a point-A to point-B city car.