[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by adimicra

Thanks Vid.
I agree it's all about compromise as there is no perfect car.
The Jazz has tougher competition, agreed but it has a few things in its favor as well. The fantastic packaging leading to much more interior space and boot space itself is a huge USP.. basically it gives you a much bugger car within compact dimensions. It's not something which you can do aftermarket. People seem to be neglecting that saying it has ONLY space but making huge issue out of small things like a plastic cap.

Yes the packaging of the Jazz is indeed a big USP but that alone is not enough. If it was only about packaging and interior cabin space the Indian buyer cared about, the Amaze should have sold better than the Dzire, the Swift should have been a flop, the Etios and Liva should have been a super hit, and the Ecosport should have flopped as well with cabin space equal to that of a hatch.

The space isn't everything, it's the overall package and based on what's on offer in the Jazz and the price for it, right now it's not looking that promising. Sales figures will be good initially for sure but it did not shock anyone like the Ecosport did initially.

The interiors are not bad at all ... I20 may be better but it's not like day and night. A bigger screen ICE in the Jazz has it's own advantages but, nobody seems to mention that.The FE/DTE with eco-rings instrument cluster is definitely useful. The touch screen ACC does give a feel good factor. The cup holder in front of the AC vent comes real handy.

Yes again. The interiors are surely not bad. For the City they don't feel like they belong in the segment but for the Jazz it's par for the course. But again the Elite i20 does better for a lower cost.

Forget the VX variant which is much more than the Elite i20 and offers the magic seats and touch screen sat nav. Compare the V variant of Jazz to the i20 Asta which is 5K difference in price. In features you don't get the touch screen and you don't even get the biggest USP, the magic seats.

In fact, talking to quite a few City owners, most of them are satisfied with the car's interiors and they don't feel like they have made a big compromise on interiors by opting for the City

I would have actually expected all of them to be satisfied. After paying 12-14 lakhs I don't think anyone will tell that the interiors of the car are sub par and don't feel like a 12 lakh car. Unless they are someone like me who has no qualms in mentioning the negatives of even the cars I have bought.

People are actually surprised when I tell them don't buy an Ecosport or tell them clearly, space is less and ride is ridiculously stiff.

Anyways, I felt that most of the opinion here has been too harsh on the Jazz... it may or may not be better than the competition depending on your needs but it is no way a can of trash which many people seem to indicate.
I still maintain that the Jazz , at least the petrol variant (diesel has NVH issue and higher price diff with I20), makes a strong case for itself.

I am not seeing any harsh comments. I see observations of members here matching with our review pretty much. Nobody has called it a can of trash from what I can see.

From what I can see people are expressing positive and negative views and staunch Honda supporters or old Jazz owners are trying to justify the new Jazz to others.

In fact, I had the same experience in my office as some of my colleagues were asking the same thing. One of them have checked out the Jazz personally and liked the car but he was a bit concerned with the comments and harsh criticism against the Jazz in this forum.

And hopefully Honda realises their mistake in pricing and features with the criticism from our readers.

[vprabu]

The baby is finally home.

Selling my A-star in two hours on Saturday (thanks Olx) last week to booking Jazz on the same day to get it delivered today (just 4 days), man things went perfect by God's grace. The wait of 1+ years finally came to an end.

Today being auspicious day, I took the delivery. First Jazz delivery of the dealership. Not registered yet. Will happen in a couple of days. The delay is due to the fact that the car is new and design and other process approvals take time.

[petrolveins]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

And hopefully Honda realises their mistake in pricing and features with the criticism from our readers.

I hope Hyundai does not take inspiration from Honda in pricing Creta.

Is the premium Honda charging over Maruti and Hyundai worth it? For example, i20 vs. Jazz, Ciaz vs. City. Particularly when the interior quality, fit and finish, after sales and service are not poles apart among these three brands.

[adimicra]

^^
Vid,
Thanks for your comments. I am tired of defending the Jazz.
So, not going to do a point by point rebuttal of your post. All I can say is the space and packaging might be the USP but at the same time, it's not lacking much relative to competition in other areas like interiors, features (agree, I20 has morebut Jazz is fairly loaded),build quality,looks, engine, ride and handling - it's a good package overall. (No point in bringing Liva or Amaze into discussion as they feel built to cost and cheap )


My point was not about criticism. The point was about members not talking about the pros of the car but making mountain out of a mole hill for every small shortcoming of the Jazz

I think "Rajeevraj" has put it very well in the earlier post, much better than I could do in my 100 odd posts in this thread

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Two major challenges Honda had to overcome with the Jazz:

1. It is pitched against the i20, which (unfortunately for Honda) is perceived as one of those near perfect cars.
2. Unlike the positive perception of the City, the Jazz perception is on the other extreme due to the pricing fiasco in the first iteration. So customers would be less inclined to overlook negative aspects as they would for the City.

So basically with the Jazz, Honda needed a perfect product that would overcome both the challenges above. They were almost there, but messed up a few things with relation to feature spread across variants and the price of the diesel. And those things are what is getting dissected to the lowest level and creating the negative impression.

I think it is good enough to slot into 2nd place behind the i20 in the segment (Not considering the swift). But need to see how much the negative perception that is getting created will impact the sales.

Personally, if I was in the market for a car in this segment,

Diesel: i20
AT: GT TSI
Petrol MT: Jazz would definitely be a serious contender.

Ended up being a long rambling post.

[Aaron:)]

This i20 vs Jazz discussion has been on for way too long. Here are my thoughts.

1. I own a 2009 City and have no qualms in accepting that it's interior quality could be better. The new City is better and fares pretty well in that respect IMO. I've experienced most of the cars in its segment and according to me, the interiors of the cars are in the following order -
Vento/Rapid > Verna > City/Ciaz > Fiesta > Linea/Sunny

2. The Jazz has even more consistent quality than the City (as was the case with the last gen of both cars). So I find no reason why its interiors are unacceptable. Other than the i20 and Polo, I can't think of a car whose interiors are better. Cars like the Swift and Punto don't come close.

3. The i20 has better interior quality, more features. The Jazz has more space, better FE and dynamics. A buyer's priorities will decide which out of the two he buys. According to me, these are brilliant cars for their segments and outclass everything else in the segment, unless you want a car that's fun to drive. I'm that case, forget i20 and Jazz, but a Polo or a Swift.

4. The Jazz may not be as complete a package as the i20. Does that make it a bad car? Not at all. I've not noticed any other car receiving so much flak for not being best in class. So why the Jazz?

In the end it all boils down to this.
The i20 does nudge ahead as a package, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the Jazz is a well rounded and practical car.
Peace.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by adimicra

My point was not about criticism. The point was about members not talking about the pros of the car but making mountain out of a mole hill for every small shortcoming of the Jazz

Unfortunately those shortcomings which many earlier said are not a big deal, actually are.

For example the touch screen climate control which looks cool, is actually a gimmick. First of all you don't keep changing the AC settings often. Secondly, because it is a touch screen it requires you to take your eyes of the road and touch the required button. I hated that vs twisting the knob in Ecosport for ACC settings.

Yes the blue/green light ring, DTE and real time FE are good to have but clearly noone missed them on the Grand i10, Elite i20, Verna and Elantra. It's a feature which gives useful information but not something you can't be without.

Now look at the extra features on the i20 which in my view serve very important purpose.

1. steering wheel telescopic adjust. You can bring the wheel closer to you for taller drivers or move it further away for shorter. I'm having same problem in the City that I have used for last one week and 1000kms. I am doing 700kms more tomorrow from Dalhousie to Delhi. An absolute pain in the ghats as the steering is too far away with my seat position and if I bring the seat closer, my ankles started to pain. I was fiddling with the settings whole day in the hills today.

2. Parking sensors. Both cars have cameras, but the sensor does a much better job of telling you exact distance complemented by the camera. Used almost daily.

3. Variable intermittent adjust wipers. Bot my Altis and Ecosport and earlier Figo have this. I am missing this a LOT during the rains now. I have been toggling between int or lo or just manually using mist over the last one week. The lo would be too fast for the rain and the int would be too slow. In i20 you can easily adjust the int for 5 settings. Just set it and leave it. No need to play with stalks.

4. Rear AC vents. Someone earlier mentioned they don't feel this is useful. I just got first dose of this. I am using a base model "S" of the city right now with no rear AC vents. In Punjab it was hot. I had the AC set for a comfortable temp for me and dad in the front. More than 3 occasions my sister and mom complained they were feeling a little warm. Then I had to divert the centre AC vents towards the rear. After a while my dad would ask sitting in passenger seat if he would reduce the Ac as he was feeling too cold.

5. AC vent vs cooled glove box is almost equal so nothing special in the Jazz.

So if you see it's these above features which really people will miss than some of the gimmicky stuff.

I haven't even mentioned the start/stop button with the keyless go cause that's something which you can do without not a must have type of feature.

[Geo_Ipe]

It is quite clear that public opinion is not in favor of the new Jazz! I have been silently observing the forum over the past 24 odd pages and I can't help but comment that the Jazz doesn't deserve the amount of negativity it is getting.

We have all agreed on one aspect - THE JAZZ HAS NOT BETTERED THE i20 ELITE

That shouldn't mean it is the end of the road for the new guy!! I somehow tend to believe that long term reliability will be better with Honda than Hyundai. That is maybe what prompted Honda to price the Jazz as high as they did.

I'm not a 'feature' guy. As long as there is ABS and two (at least) Airbags, I'll be more than happy. What should really matter is the Engine+Gearbox, Space, Ride and Comfort and Long term reliability! I am pretty sure Jazz ticks all those major boxes! Who else offers so many Engine+Gearbox combos on a newly launched hatchback??

I would call Jazz a worthy alternative to whoever would buy an i20 Elite. Before the Jazz, the other alternative would have been the Swift, which is clearly a notch below. I do believe that the Jazz has potential to pull a few i20, Ecosport and even Swift customers to the Honda showrooms. i20 sells 8-10 k units per month. Jazz offers definitely more than 2/3 of what the i20 offers. Even if we consider the price disadvantage, and assume that the Jazz sells only half as much as the i20, that would translate to 4-5 k units per month. That I think would be successful at the moment!!

[damager21]

I think everyone on this forum have openly mentioned that Jazz SV variant is a better value for money than Elite i20 mid variant. In fact if you compare pricing of all variants up to V, its about 10k premium over Elite i20 which is fine.

The problem I feel is mainly with the top variants. This is where Jazz looses out to i20. They are not as feature loaded and as i20 then why charge a premium of 30 to 50k?

If space is Jazz's USP, then that is constant across all variants, what is so special about VX that you charge a premium. Yes, magic seats are great, you are offering a touch screen AVN, but does that justify a 50k premium over V variant?

Also, I think second criticism is on choice of variants in which CVT is offered. For some strange reason Honda chose to offer CVT in S and V variant. Why on earth not offer CVT in top variant. There are many out there who want CVT in top variant. And for those who would have found VX CVT to be expensive, they would have easily gone for SV CVT because we all agree that it is value for money.

Overall, Jazz is a brilliant product. It was one of the most eagerly awaited product which many consumers were planning to buy. Honda could have done better with pricing and its variant-feature mix to make it an impulsive buy.

[Crazy_Bean]

Originally Posted by vprabu

The baby is finally home.

Selling my A-star in two hours on Saturday (thanks Olx) last week to booking Jazz on the same day to get it delivered today (just 4 days), man things went perfect by God's grace. The wait of 1+ years finally came to an end.

Today being auspicious day, I took the delivery. First Jazz delivery of the dealership. Not registered yet. Will happen in a couple of days. The delay is due to the fact that the car is new and design and other process approvals take time.

Congrats on you purchase. Looks great in silver. Please post more daylight pics inside and outside.

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by vprabu

The baby is finally home.

Selling my A-star in two hours on Saturday (thanks Olx) last week to booking Jazz on the same day to get it delivered today (just 4 days), man things went perfect by God's grace. The wait of 1+ years finally came to an end.

Today being auspicious day, I took the delivery. First Jazz delivery of the dealership. Not registered yet. Will happen in a couple of days. The delay is due to the fact that the car is new and design and other process approvals take time.

Congrats on being the first owner of the All new Jazz on Team-bhp.
Please post some day time pics of the interior as well as the exterior, your initial impressions, your decision making process etc. Or , better still, start an ownership thread

Originally Posted by damager21

I think everyone on this forum have openly mentioned that Jazz SV variant is a better value for money than Elite i20 mid variant. In fact if you compare pricing of all variants up to V, its about 10k premium over Elite i20 which is fine.

The problem I feel is mainly with the top variants. This is where Jazz looses out to i20. They are not as feature loaded and as i20 then why charge a premium of 30 to 50k?

If space is Jazz's USP, then that is constant across all variants, what is so special about VX that you charge a premium. Yes, magic seats are great, you are offering a touch screen AVN, but does that justify a 50k premium over V variant?

Overall, Jazz is a brilliant product. It was one of the most eagerly awaited product which many consumers were planning to buy. Honda could have done better with pricing and its variant-feature mix to make it an impulsive buy.

I agree with you.
Actually, the VX variant is what is making Jazz look much pricey. Otherwise, the prices for the petrol at least are pretty close to the I20.
On top of that, you get dual airbags and ABS in the mid variant of the Jazz which is not there in the I20 except the top Asta variant.
May be Honda themselves don't expect much sales for the top variant.

If I were a prospective customer, I would probably have gone for the V or SV. The V variant should be 10-15K cheaper than I20 Asta. I would used that money to get some accessories like arm rest, parking sensors, seat covers etc. and I should be good to go

[ampere]

And to add to the discussion, let the Creta 1.4 and S-Cross 1.3 pricing be revealed. I am very sure, we will see even more cross-shopping between them and Jazz (and i20) at least for the diesel versions. If the two X-overs are priced below the Jazz top end diesel (which I strongly believe will happen), Jazz diesel will take a big sales hit.

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by vprabu

The baby is finally home.

Congratulations! Wish you plenty of happy and peaceful miles ahead, my friend. Drive safe!

Originally Posted by adimicra

My point was not about criticism. The point was about members not talking about the pros of the car but making mountain out of a mole hill for every small shortcoming of the Jazz.

No doubt, the Jazz is a fantastic car for all the stuff it brings to the table. If I had to choose one between the Jazz and the Elite i20, I would probably go for the Jazz too, specially in it's petrol avatar. The ability to carry 5 persons with utmost ease, the well-sorted driving dynamics, the legendary Honda reliability (niggles in modern-day Hondas aside), and the ability to be a jack-of-all-trades, puts the Jazz right up there with the best.

If you remember, Adi, back in late 2011 when I was going through my car options, my final choice was the Honda Jazz. It's another story altogether that I eventually went for the City (re-sale and continuation in market being primary reasons), but out of all the options back then the Jazz was simply the most compelling.

Fast forward 4 years later, and the all-new Jazz is here. Now, as damager 21 so rightly put it, the in-cabin space USP of the Jazz exists right from the E to the VX. What else makes the Jazz E (or S, for that matter) any more special than the other similarly-priced offerings in the segment? For that little bit of special exclusivity, you have to go right to the Jazz VX!

What made the 2011 Jazz so compelling was a host of features which added to the "feel-good" factor - Magic Seats, dual airbags, integrated Audio, steering-mounted controls, 60:40 rear seat split, ABS+EBD, rear wiper+defogger, keyless entry, dual glovebox and a FULL-SIZE spare wheel - all these right from the Base variant itself! The buyer of the Jazz Base (at 5.5 lakhs, ex-showroom Delhi) didn't feel shortchanged, and Honda made him feel special!

Add to all that - 2 different and distinct type of alloys (I remember the 5-spoke gunmetal ones were an absolute hoot to behold), and a host of other features on the middle (Select) and top (X) variants, which made the Jazz unique, and a special option in the market.

The biggest problem back then was the Indian market itself. It was simply not mature enough to understand what a wonderful car the Jazz was, and like others before it (such as the Ford Fusion and the Hyundai Getz), it didn't find many takers, despite a drastic slashing of prices and introducing a facelift at an unbeatable dynamic price.

In face, I envy all those who bought the facelifted Jazz in 2011-12 at that steal of a price, before it was discontinued altogether. Honda India was actually making a loss on every Jazz sold back then.

Today, the market has moved on. The paying customer knows exactly what his requirements are, and he looks for the best option for his hard-earned rupees. Naturally, he will choose the option which gives him the best bang for his buck. We have the Jazz E & S variants which don't make too much of a sense to go for. The SV is the sole VFM option in the lineup and gets my vote for the same, while I won't suggest anyone to go for the V or the VX, even in it's petrol avatar. The wires in the boot (VX), the round plastic button, the 14-inch steel spare wheel - such things will always exist and will always pinch the paying customer, reminding him of all that he DIDN'T get. Even if he decides to overlook these things, others in his circle (friends, family, contacts, acquaintances) will not stop from pointing these out, adding further to his annoyance. This, despite investing a chunk of his savings in his Jazz (V or VX).

It's a cult classic car with it's own fan following, and since it had bombed in it's earlier avatar, Honda needed to be much more delicate in handling the badge in it's re-introduction. Instead, they bungled up the variants big-time and to add to that insult, injured the Jazz more by pricing it atrociously yet again.

(Touching 10.5-11 lakhs in some cities?! Come on!)

The Honda Jazz, for all my money, has lost on it's one big novelty - the feel-good factor. Sure, it's a compelling option in the B2-segment, but given a choice for someone to buy one with his hard-earned money, he will opt for the Elite i20 because, among all other things, he will feel good for whichever option he opts for - because now even the Elite i20 Asta diesel has suddenly climbed the VFM charts, given the atrocious pricing of the Jazz V & VX diesels. Even the Volkswagen Polo now makes a strong case for itself, since it's a purely driver-oriented car. (The City diesels are no longer VFM deals after the Jazz's launch, but that's an altogether different story)

Go for the Jazz, guys. Make sure it's the SV you opt for. No other variant makes much sense. For all other price points other than the Jazz SV, there are better options in the segment.

[neil.jericho]

I forgot to mention this in my earlier post but while talking to the sales guy in Peninsular Honda in Cochin about the tyres he said some of them come with MRF while others come with Goodyear (IIRC). The CVT I was checking had MRFs while the silver VX didnt as per him.

[Vik0728]

Originally Posted by ampere

And to add to the discussion, let the Creta 1.4 and S-Cross 1.3 pricing be revealed. I am very sure, we will see even more cross-shopping between them and Jazz (and i20) at least for the diesel versions.

This is totally but just to add a bit of spice to your post ampere, how about the Ford Ecosport Facelift that is coming up !!

Personally, I think Ford will be the real winner here over the I20, Jazz, Creta & S-cross,..why :

- Ecosport Facelift will retain the Spare Wheel on the tail gate for Indian version (link). This makes it look like a proper compact SUV.

- With only the changes in the ECU tuning of the engine, there may probably not be a lot in price hike. This again will make it look like "A proper SUV for a Hatch Price".

- Considering only the Diesel Engine, it will no longer be a slouch when pitted against Creta 1.4, S-Cross 1.3, Elite 1.4 or Jazz 1.5, especially when you have 0-100km time of under 11 secs !! All this from a small SUV

Though looks and body design of a car is very subjective, personally I feel Elite really looks the best and most balanced. The Jazz looks a bit quirky and probably a bit more confused as to where it fits, Hatch or small SUV.

So the point I am trying to make is, Jazz will probably be squashed in between the Elite & Ecosport !!

[jeet8686]

Originally Posted by vprabu

The baby is finally home.

First Jazz delivery of the dealership. Not registered yet. Will happen in a couple of days. The delay is due to the fact that the car is new and design and other process approvals take time.

Congratulations vprabhu!!

Even I have booked one too - Jazz SV MT Petrol and am waiting for my delivery.

The dealer here in Pune is saying that he is having close to 100 bookings, although that figure might be a bit exaggerated.

Enjoy your new ride.