[manish.thomas]

Originally Posted by girishv

Hi,

I am planning to update the ICE on my Delta. My plan is to begin with component speakers/tweeters and move on with time. I do not intend to change the HU as of now though. The show room guy gave a quote of 10k for Hertz speakers in the front including fitting. He did not know the model number though. Will this be better than the Nippon speakers that comes with S-cross variants? Or, getting the doors damped is better than going for a new set of speakers?

girish

Hi,
What is the size of the original speakers? Have you done the swap?

[girishv]

Originally Posted by manish.thomas

Hi,
What is the size of the original speakers? Have you done the swap?

No Manish, still in the process of deciding the components and/or tweeters

girish

[kpzen]

Thanks all for appreciating the pic
Still the front grille is not to my taste.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

I guess the MAF sensitive was inputting the ECU with air density and air temperature figures to alter the RPM to keep the engine running.
.

I think its the pressure and not the temperature.
When I bought the car is Jan the ambient temperature was around 5 degrees and there was no problem.
Need to check ECU map values to confirm.

Originally Posted by sahiltodankar

This is one of the best pictures I have seen of Scross .if you don't mind then can you share some more pictures? Like to see blacked out top. Also do you faced any problem while staring the engine at that altitude?

Thanks, Will share more pics.
No starting problem.

Originally Posted by girishv

Not related to this. There is this dotted area in the middle of the dashboard (marked in red). What exactly is this?

Blue - Tweeter
Red - Center speaker (as per the international version of S cross)

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

On another note, what you've described about the S Cross 320Nm climbing up a very steep gradient and struggling, is something that the Yeti does admirably and mostly because of the Electronic Differential Lock and "Torque on Demand" "Power on Demand" to all Four Wheels as required. The 4x4 system really really helps on very steep inclines.
I drove to Nandi hills last week and there are parts of that road especially up near the summit where the road per se has been dug up and is merely a dirt track with plenty of loose stones and gravel and ruts thrown in. The Yeti, with is AWD and excellent torque, did not bat an eyelid at this. Just went up peacefully.
On various parts of the main road leading up the hill, I just let the vehicle's inherent torque propel it up with zero accelerator input!

Indeed, on these pretty steep ramps at Malls etc, I just take my foot off the accelerator and let the vehicle's inherent torque take it up the ramp, which it does brilliantly.

If the Maruti fellows had been kind enough to give the India spec car also these bells and whistles, it would really have been quite a Star in its own little space.

Sir,
In first gear, RPM tends to drop if you try to crawl a small ramp on clutch. It was not the case with Hyundai CRDis.
Primarily, I think its due to the torque limiter in map for lower gears and nothing to do with hardware of the car. Remap can solve this.

But, it's not fair to compare Himalayas with Nandi hills. There is substantial difference in altitude and terrain.

[manish.thomas]

A quick one, which is the default position of rear seat back. Upright or further relaxed? I have booked an 1.6 delta and since delta does not have adjustable back seat recline, was wondering which would be the default position

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by kpzen

Sir,
In first gear, RPM tends to drop if you try to crawl a small ramp on clutch. It was not the case with Hyundai CRDis.
Primarily, I think its due to the torque limiter in map for lower gears and nothing to do with hardware of the car. Remap can solve this.

But, it's not fair to compare Himalayas with Nandi hills. There is substantial difference in altitude and terrain.

I understand that RPM can drop unless you have momentum.
The gradients for sure up in the Himalayas are steep. But while ascending a ramp to a house in Coorg a while ago, I climbed a 45 degree angle very happily in my 320NM Yeti. Mostly on account of the excellent extra traction from the 4WD system. That really helps. And that, really is the point I was making.

[sandygordon]

Originally Posted by girishv

Thanks for the info.

How do you access the tweeter area? Do I have to open the complete dashboard for it or ?

Girish

No - My installer opened it from outside. Not sure of the exact technique. Will update on that.

[ForeRunner]

Some time back when we were booking Baleno for my friend I have driven S-Cross 1.6 L version for a test. The engine is really a marvelous piece from Fiat. I feel S-Cross would be a very successful model if,

> Maruti releases a little bigger version with 7 seater. At-least of Safari type face-face jumper seats at last row. The 1.6 DDiS is capable of pulling a 2 tonne truck. I think this engine can be put in next gen Grand Vitara.

> Maruti releases a 6 gear version for 1.3 DDiS in the current model. The engine struggles to go beyond 110 with 3 people on board. And also BiXenon headlamps, touch screen infotainment system should be given as option to base models too.

[anycatd]

Originally Posted by girishv

Hi,
Not related to this. There is this dotted area in the middle of the dashboard (marked in red). What exactly is this?
girish

One in red I thought was like an anti-slip surface for keeping stuff. Is it for a center speaker as someone said?

[Sree73]

Originally Posted by manish.thomas

A quick one, which is the default position of rear seat back. Upright or further relaxed? I have booked an 1.6 delta and since delta does not have adjustable back seat recline, was wondering which would be the default position

As such, there is no default position in 1.3. This facility is given for slightly increasing the boot capacity to 375 litres.
But, upright position is not convenient for back seat passengers and also it creates a big gap between the parcel tray and back seat and hence small items kept on parcel tray can fall off to boot during the travel.
If you consider this inconvenience, default position can be taken as further relaxed reclined one.

[girishv]

Originally Posted by anycatd

One in red I thought was like an anti-slip surface for keeping stuff. Is it for a center speaker as someone said?

Earlier I thought it as an anti-slip surface too. But later found that it is very similar to the surface of the two tweeters at the corners.

Now I need to look for a centre speaker too, which will fit in this place

For those who are considering upgrading their HU through DIY, its very simple. Its as simple as removing the front plate of the HU and removing two screws.

1. Remove the Hazard switch just by lifting at the bottom.
2. Remove the AC duct above the stereo by simply lifting the bottom (silver colour).
3. Remove the two screws fitted in a slanting angle.
4. Pull the stereo out

Please check this video. Though its of international version, the stereo looks exactly same as in my delta.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7VG...BMMmyhYuRIVzqy

Similarly to remove the door panels for damping (steps and photos taken from a Suzuki forum)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Very easy indeed! 2 screws and 2 push pins and the panel just clips off.

1. Push the center of the pins on either side of the panel- (top left and right) in- and the clip will pop out.
2. Remove the plastic cover behind the door handle lever and unscrew the screw.
3. Raise the small plastic cover inside the inner door handle and unscrew the screw. (NOTE: Do not try to remove this- it will break. the small cover stays in place)
4. Start top left and slowly un-clip the rest of the panel working your way around to the right.
5. Remove the plugs connecting the electric windows etc and the panel is loose.





---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps somebody

Girish

[kpzen]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I understand that RPM can drop unless you have momentum.
The gradients for sure up in the Himalayas are steep. But while ascending a ramp to a house in Coorg a while ago, I climbed a 45 degree angle very happily in my 320NM Yeti. Mostly on account of the excellent extra traction from the 4WD system. That really helps. And that, really is the point I was making.

Yes this is a problem with DDIS320 irrespective of the gradient.
RPM tends to drop even while driving in crawling traffic, you need to modulate the revvs accordingly.

And at high altitude and steep gradients, things get trickier and one needs to be careful else you will end up burning the clutch.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by kpzen

Yes this is a problem with DDIS320 irrespective of the gradient.
RPM tends to drop even while driving in crawling traffic, you need to modulate the revvs accordingly.

And at high altitude and steep gradients, things get trickier and one needs to be careful else you will end up burning the clutch.

I learned to drive in the hills. Up steep slopes and down steep gradients (on some "non roads" with some lovely sharp switchbacks and hairpin bends thrown in). Dad always taught me to use the same gear while descending a gradient, that I would use while going up that same gradient.

While going up, there is always the question of momentum that you need. Having driven 4WD Jeeps, Amby's, Fiats and even Tractors when I was learning, I learned how to judge a gradient and use the right amount of approach speed so as to conserve the vehicle and save its "axle" and "clutch" and so on!
In my old Gypsy, being a light vehicle with 4x4 and high GC, I ve climbed lots of places that I would never attempt in a heavier vehicle. (This is why, on account of their sheet lightweight nature, you see lots and lots of Maruti Vans and Maruti 800's etc in the hilly places and they all seem to buzz about like veritable mountain goats - on roads where heavier vehicles would literally fear to tread.)

The Bolero and Scorpio which I subsequently owned, were great vehicles, but not being 4x4 were incapable of some of the things the Gypsy excelled at! Even my Gypsy used to perform better off road, especially on rough steep climbs and on wet grass etc, when it had its standard HT75 Tyres rather than when it had Ceat Rhino Radials. So tyres also do play a big part in this.

Once while reversing the Scorpio up a pretty steep incline (40 degrees or so) and on dewy/wet grassy terrain, I could clearly smell the clutch burning. But I was then able to reverse it somehow and then drive out normally. It just did not have the requisite traction and purchase, being so heavy a vehicle! And that self same slope is one I have reversed up peacefully in the old Mahindra 540's and 550DP's that my Dad had in the Plantations; which were always clad with the right sort of slim Jeep - tread tyres, had 4WD and were simply superb for some of those rocky and / or grassy hill climbs or even slush and mud up an incline. But the bottomline is that you have to pay attention to the momentum, being in the right gear and the angle of approach when you are tackling a steep incline. One has to judge carefully when one engages 4WD in those old Jeeps - better to judge the slope, engage 4WD, approach at the right speed/ rev levels, in 1st Gear and then attempt it, or one may roll back when halfway up! Wet grass is treacherous. Causes frightful loss of grip because of Aquaplaning!

Today, with the Yeti, I have done a number of steep climbs on varied terrain, but frankly, being such an expensive car, I still hesitate a lot to push it to the limit.
The new generation of 2WD cars with high BHP and Torque, like the S Cross, are very capable machines indeed in many ways, but for the most part, their gearing and torque delivery (atleast in the Indian avatar) is best suited to regular driving on highways and on poor roads etc but these are not the best vehicles for that serious hill climbing activity on rough, broken roads, that one may wish to indulge in. These are not really meant for that kind of usage. Great cars though, for the most part and will more or less tick all the boxes for normal use.

Even the Yeti with its 4WD is mostly meant for loose gravel, snow/ice, grassy tracks and a perhaps a garnish of slush - going up a steep incline on such surfaces, I would always be very very careful because notwithstanding all the gizmos it has, like Hill Hold and Off Road Button and Electronic Differential Lock, and reasonable ground clearance, at the end of the day, it is an expensive soft roader and I would not want to "prang" it and cause monstrous bills for myself!

[abhinavb]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

I learned to drive in the hills.

While going up, there is always the question of momentum that you need. Having driven 4WD Jeeps, Amby's, Fiats and even Tractors when I was learning, I learned how to judge a gradient and use the right amount of approach speed so as to conserve the vehicle and save its "axle" and "clutch" and so on!

Hi Shankar,

What a great piece of information. Thanks for sharing.

One quick question, based on your experience, do you think 1.3 S-Cross is capable of tackling a bit of hills, say Manali-Leh and Leh-Srinagar roads?

Thanks

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by abhinavb

Hi Shankar,

What a great piece of information. Thanks for sharing.

One quick question, based on your experience, do you think 1.3 S-Cross is capable of tackling a bit of hills, say Manali-Leh and Leh-Srinagar roads?

Thanks

I have not driven those specific roads. But from what I have seen, even Maruti Vans and Maruti 800's buzz up and down those roads, so I would say yes, the 1.3 S Cross will make it, if driven correctly! Even these smaller engined Front wheel drive cars fly up and down quite easily!

We used to marvel at this capability of these little Japanese cars, when our old petrol Ambassador or petrol Fiat, used to wheeze and grunt up the hills under a full load. One had always to watch out for the right gear and momentum and angle of approach, keeping a hawk eye on the temperature gauge at all times.

Remember, not everyone who lives up in the high hills has access to upper end deluxe cars like these new generation ones - most of them manage with humbler means of transport and still get around quite well!

17 years ago this May, I watched a Maruti 1000 suffering a lot to climb certain sections of the Sigur Ghat in the Nilgiris. Simply because he didn't have enough momentum each time he took a hairpin bend. The same thing happened to me and my friend who were following in a Ford Escort Diesel 1.8 First Gen. Those Ford Escorts didn't have enough low end torque for those steep climbs, being inherently heavy RWD cars. Then Ford actually did a re-tuning of the engines to provide better torque and pulling power so the newer ones were able to deal with certain very steep sections.

Remember, as I said earlier, it is about the momentum, the right gear, the right angle of approach and the line that you choose to take around the curve while ascending a slope. A skilful driver can drive 'most anything up these pretty steep slopes as long as the surface and the tyres etc are up to it. Even the most skilful driver might struggle taking a very heavy 2WD Rear wheel drive car up a narrow, steep track whose surface is full of slush or wet grass, simply because the vehicle is too heavy to get enough purchase or traction, irrespective of what he may do.

Around 5-6 years ago we were driving a Subaru Forester (brand new) in England, way up in the Yorkshire hills. On Dirt tracks and grassy paths.
There were certain places we wanted to visit, this being James Herriot country and I wanted to see as much as possible.

Now, while James Herriot himself used to drive an ancient, wheezy Austin 7 or Rover or Ford in the early 1940's when he was a Vet there and as per his books and descriptions used to get around quite well up those steep farm tracks etc irrespective of rain, shine or snow/ice, my surmise is that one of the reasons for his success was the fact that those cars were inherently smaller and lighter and had the right sort of tyres to go up and down those roads. Of course, they weren't fast cars and neither did they have huge torquey engines and all the modern gizmos. A lot depended on the skill of the driver and the need to get where he needed to get.

In the same way, in rural France, you will see the humble lightweight 2WD Citroen 2CV going to some pretty steep places on all sorts of tracks!

Well, we went in Summer in that AWD AT Subaru Forester and there were certain sections of those roads (off the beaten track) where I did feel the Subaru slipping a bit because of its weight and size on the dewy grass / slushy wet surfaces that abound in those parts.

The lesson here is always be very careful about the inherent capacity of your vehicle before testing its limitations. In some cases, it is better to scout out the road on foot before taking the vehicle up.

There is a place near the Golf Club in Coorg (Virajpet) where the road was a steep, stony and narrow track. My Scorpio 2WD simply could not make it up that road, being a 2WD RWD and a very heavy vehicle. By contrast, a Maruti 800 and a Gypsy went up it, after a fashion! And a standard DI engined Mahindra Major with 4WD went up like a breeze!

I simply would not take my AWD 1.5 Ton Skoda Yeti up that road, notwithstanding all its inherent gizmos!

Always be aware of the limitations! Don't take unnecessary risks!

[shivasi]

Originally Posted by girishv

No Manish, still in the process of deciding the components and/or tweeters
girish

Originally Posted by sandygordon

No - My installer opened it from outside. Not sure of the exact technique. Will update on that.

Apologies, I am a bit late to check this. I have got the front speakers upgraded. The tweeters do sit in the front corners of the dash. However, I had read somewhere that the position is such that the sound hits the front windscreen causing some amount of distortion. When I upgraded, I had the option of either putting the new tweeters in the existing slot of getting it fixed like in the below picture (which is what I did).

Originally Posted by girishv

For those who are considering upgrading their HU through DIY, its very simple. Its as simple as removing the front plate of the HU and removing two screws.
Girish

Opening the HU requires specialized plastic pry tool. So make sure you get them instead of using normal screw drivers which might cause the plastic to chip.




Maybe because I had amp installed, the entire work looked complex. It made me nuts at some stage where there were so many wires running around, the dash opened, carpet removed, door panel taken off. So do it if you know what you are doing.