[adimicra]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

Reassesing my needs
1. Average speed - On Kerala highways - 40-50kmph, bursts of 80-100 most often. 120+ one burst of 3 km on the container road daily.
2. Condition of roads - 50% are bad, Even Duster cannot iron out 50% of those. You have to slow down and then take them slowly.
3. Ghat / Inclines - Twice an year, may be to Munnar or Ooty/Kodaikanal/Kollur.
4. Expressway cruising (akin to roads up north or the Tamilnadu/Karnataka highways) - Once a year or less

After reassessing needs - Do I need a 1.6? I am more confused.

Hey man... I have been silently following your story, your awesome flow chart in this thread. I feel bad for you that Maruti has messed up the pricing of the S-cross.

I would say you should go for the 1.6 engine. I personally feel that a substantial upgrade like this should result in better driving pleasure which the 1.3 Scross or the 1.4 Creta can't provide in such hefty cars.
Probably, the 1.6 SX Creta makes sense in your budget.

Best of luck!

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

Logic says: Jump to the creta camp
But if I cannot afford 14+, I think its more sane to remain i the s cross camp
12.8 L OTR for the 1.3 alpha vs 14 L OTR Delta (with added alloys, rear demister and nexa seat covers (unless they charge 'premium').

Buy a Storme and be happy

Jokes aside, it looks to me that you desperately want to buy SCross. Why do I get a feeling yours would be the first SCross in our forum?

Now jokes really aside, can you hold your purchase?

I am saying this because you look very eager to buy DDIS320 mainly for the engine. Seriously I see no reason to buy one at that price. In a years time once local manufacturing begins, we might get better prices. It may not help SCross but it would definitely not harm those of us who are going to buy the car.

Moreover who knows, you may get the engine on some other cars too?

[sudeepg]

Quoted from business news in today's TOI:


<<
While being a crossover, Maruti hopes that the S-Cross will compete with the compact SUV's such as renault duster, Ford EcoSport and recently launched Hyundai Creta.

Kenichi Ayukawa, MD & CEO, Maruti Suzuki, said the company expects to sell 4,000 units of the S-Cross per month and this should increase as it ramps up the new retail networ. At present it has 35 outlets of Nexa, which will be expanded to 100 dealerships by the end of this fiscal.
....
Maruti has not offered a petrol engine as most buyers in this category prefer diesel

>>

4000 units at this price point competing with duster and EcoSport?

Maybe not with the 1.6L engines, but the sluggish 1.3L engines? I am sure there will be takers for the 1.3L engine variants and whoever purchases it will eventually realize it is very underpowered. I don't see why anyone would use a crossover of this size for city usage primarily. A smaller hatch would make more sense.

Is Maruti expecting to expand its Nexa dealerships with the heavy premium it is expecting from the sale of this cross over?

I believe GTO was absolutely right when he said that Maruti was never successful in the premium segment because of very bad marketing and pricing strategy.

It's a shame!

Originally Posted by sandygordon

Reassesing my needs
1. Average speed - On Kerala highways - 40-50kmph, bursts of 80-100 most often. 120+ one burst of 3 km on the container road daily.
2. Condition of roads - 50% are bad, Even Duster cannot iron out 50% of those. You have to slow down and then take them slowly.
3. Ghat / Inclines - Twice an year, may be to Munnar or Ooty/Kodaikanal/Kollur.
4. Expressway cruising (akin to roads up north or the Tamilnadu/Karnataka highways) - Once a year or less

After reassessing needs - Do I need a 1.6?

sandygordon:

I am more or less in the same boat as you, just that I see much better roads usually. But I do want to consider that I will see bad roads during vacation trips.

My opinion is that you WILL NEED a better engine. 1.3 is going to disappoint you very much on ghats/inclines. 1.3 will be not be great on expressways as well. If you are willing to let go the fun of driving you could go ahead with it, but I feel you will regret the decision. I for sure will not go for the 1.3 because it will take away the fun of driving. It's just too much compromise in terms of driving coming from a Honda.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

After reassessing needs - Do I need a 1.6? I am more confused.

I guess DDiS200 might fare better in city conditions than the 320. Test drive and update your flow chart.

Originally Posted by vibbs

In a years time once local manufacturing begins, we might get better prices. It may not help SCross but it would definitely not harm those of us who are going to buy the car.

Maruti has fast tracked their 1.5 diesel engine project and in fact is delayed. Speculated launch is now 2017-18. I don't think the 1.6 MJD engine is in the localization plans by Maruti, unless there is a very top level decision by Suzuki-Fiat to collaborate which is now likely since VW is reported to have no stake in Suzuki.

[Arjun Reddy]

Guys, for all those who are now missing the bus on the 320 DDIS due to price , would you think it makes sense to pick up the 200 alpha and go for probably a dual channel map from Race Dynamics?
We will probably get a 100 horses at the wheel and a 30-40% jump on the torque ratings.
@Viddy, can you though some light on this?

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy

Guys, for all those who are now missing the bus on the 320 DDIS due to price , would you think it makes sense to pick up the 200 alpha and go for probably a dual channel map from Race Dynamics?
We will probably get a 100 horses at the wheel and a 30-40% jump on the torque ratings.

Hi. There are a couple of 90 hp Puntos in the forum that have been remapped. Its romoured to be as fast as the Tjet. Which is quite acceptable. SCross is heavier than the Punto so it might not be that explosive, but I believe a good step up over the stock.

The 90hp DDIS suffers more turbolag than the 75 hp one. There might be some improvement in driveability. In any case DDIS320 also suffers from some lag.

In my opinion a remap or tuning box is a good way to go for people who want the SCross and at the same time dont want to pay a premium of 3 lakhs for the bigger engine, which quite frankly is just par for the segment performance wise.

[nikhil_d1106]

Originally Posted by Abhi99

Thats an interesting point mate, I did some google and found the following link -

http://www.charteredclub.com/excise-...cars-in-india/

According to this link the difference of Tax is about 4%. When 1.6 Alpha was exported to Malaysia the declared value of vehicle was about 7.5 L , adding 4% on that would come to 30k.

But yes, I do stand corrected on the base price of the engine - which comes to about 190k.

The link you have posted is the concessional excise duty rates applicable till December 31, 2014. The rates reverted back to the old structure from Jan'15. Here is the link:

http://www.siamindia.com/economic-af...8&pgidtrail=19

Maruti management had mentioned that they would go in for local manufacturing of the 1.6 diesel if the volumes justify. It could turn out to be chicken and egg story!!!
Ideally Maruti should take a plunge with local manufacturing of the 1.6 diesel, price it reasonably and go for added volumes with the engine offered as an option for S-Cross, Ciaz and Ertiga. That way they could justify the volumes.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by nikhil_d1106

Maruti management had mentioned that they would go in for local manufacturing of the 1.6 diesel if the volumes justify.

If so, in which product will Suzuki's 1.5 diesel be launched? IMO this is only a stop gap arrangement using the 1.6 MJD, till Suzuki's diesel engine is ready.

[nikhil_d1106]

Originally Posted by volkman10

If so, in which product will Suzuki's 1.5 diesel be launched? IMO this is only a stop gap arrangement using the 1.6 MJD, till Suzuki's diesel engine is ready.

The 1.5 diesel is still some time away. But I agree the Maruti is not to serious about the 1.6 diesel. It just gives them bragging points for commercials and promotions. The 1.3 is the bread and butter. Unlike the Creta wherein the 1.4 is just to get a low sticker price and focus on the 1.6 oil burner.

[GTO]

This has been added to the opening post (likes / dislikes):

Originally Posted by S2!!!

What you won’t:

• 1.6L diesel variant is overpriced. 3 lakh rupee premium over the 1.3L!

Thanks to S2!!! for preparing this price & specs comparison (also added to the opening page).

The S-Cross is punching above its weight, and sort of ends up in no man's land. If you want a compact urban SUV, you can buy the excellent EcoSport Titanium and save 3.5 lakhs. Mid-size modern SUV? Get the Creta 1.6L for the same price (with lots more features, including 6 airbags!!). If you want a large SUV with 7 seats, hop over to a Mahindra showroom for the all-rounded XUV500. The W10 variant (with sunroof) costs only a lakh & some change more. Like to play in the mud? Duster AWD with a magic carpet ride is yours for lesser money.

Good thing that Nexa salesmen have iPads. They'll need it to kill time.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

I'm not sure of the prices in IND, but perhaps you could get a few of the D sedans at a stretch too? Vote with your feet and your money - don't let these manufacturers make us look like willing fools.

I just checked. For 50K more you can get the Chevrolet Cruze LT variant. This is without discounts. I'm sure the Cruze has plenty of discounts which means after discounts it will be priced close to the S-cross Alpha.

Another option is the Corolla petrol, one below the top spec G variant. You don't get leather and xenon's but a D segment sedan which is reasonably equipped.

The top end Duster with AWD is a good 50K lesser than the S-cross on road. There might be some discounts as well.

Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy

Guys, for all those who are now missing the bus on the 320 DDIS due to price , would you think it makes sense to pick up the 200 alpha and go for probably a dual channel map from Race Dynamics?
We will probably get a 100 horses at the wheel and a 30-40% jump on the torque ratings.
@Viddy, can you though some light on this?

Yes, A remap will help but even with a remap, I doubt you will be anywhere close to the DDiS320 performance plus you miss the 6th gear.

I need to drive both and see but if you can justify the DDiS320 and can stretch your budget beyond 14L on road then the DDiS320 can be considered.

[muke31]

I feel i took the right decision in buying preowned 2.5 yr old 24K ran Laura TSI for 8.5 lacs intead of waiting for Creta or S Cross. enjoying the drive and planning for petes remap. Agree you will miss out the new car feel but the sheer pleasure of driving TSI and NVH makes a good buy i guess. I will only think of buying new one may be after few years provided i get trouble free experience from Laura TSI

-Mukesh

[Leoshashi]

I believe Maruti themselves wanted to keep the volumes of the DDiS 320 low. Their import strategy explains that.

But, if they genuinely wanted S-Cross 1.6 to be a success, and still have priced it like this, then I believe nothing can save them even in coming future if they don't learn their lessons. And they will keep cribbing that they are unable to uplift their image upmarket.

The Kizashi when launched in Feb 2011, was expected to make Maruti's mark in the premium sedan segment. I remember reading somewhere that Maruti will consider local assembly IF the volumes justify. Similar strategy was applied in case of Grand Vitara when the 2.0L was launched in 2007.

Maruti, if a class 9th student can understand that Volumes won't come unless priced right, and unless volumes don't come you won't price it right(that's your condition)!!! What sort of childish business strategy this is??? You got to loose on some aspect. Better don't consider launching a product just for the sake of it, unless you are truly determined to sell it!!
And you expect people will buy your product after a price cut?? Think sanely, what happened to the Inazuma or the Ford Fiesta or the old Honda Jazz or even your Baleno-did the price cuts help them afterwards??


Now again in the 1.6L DDiS case, I couldn't help smiling to myself when I read the statement- The local assembly of 1.6 will be considered if volumes justify.
Dear Maruti, the people whom you are expecting to act as guinea pigs for you, aren't fools, to initially buy a car at a high price and then watch in dismay as the prices are heavily slashed once local manufacturing starts.

I can't believe a company as big and successful as MSIL is acting so timidly when playing with options.
They already have the Ertiga, Ciaz, S-Cross and the Swift ready to get those engines and fly off the showrooms. Why can't they just start the local manufacturing and price them competitively ??

Sorry mods- I am simply frustrated by the pricing debacle in recent times.


Regards

[ssambyal1980]

The competitive pricing has been the very essence of success for Maruti Suzuki Ltd but it seems that in case of S Cross, it has overlooked this very vital aspect.

With so many decent options available from the competitors in the similar price range, the chances of prospective buyers remaining confused for the final call are high.

No matter how much R&D the company has put in to come up with a new model, with middle class constituting the major chunk of car buyers in India, competitive and affordable pricing is the ultimate call, which makes or breaks.

[nkghai]

As per Kenichi Ayukawa, they had 6000 bookings of S Cross with 30000 inquiries.
Out of the 6000 bookings at least one third would have been for 1.6 L DDIS, where the maximum cancellation will be.
1510 units already shipped and if he is to be believed and they were expecting 4000 S Cross per month, so by this month end all bookings taken care off and then we will have Nexa showrooms as good relaxation points.
And the icing will be huge discounts in the festive season on 1.6 L. Wishful thinking ? Anything can happen in the market.