[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

I hope the car doesn't sell well and MSIL start discounting it before they start fingering the engine and localizing it.

I am not too sure. And I have lived in both worlds for long.

Had a BS3 Swift LDi when we were in Bangalore and it was a royal pain in the city. The Pete's box cured that to a big extend. But I think I am better off with linear acceleration than big lag followed by a sudden surge. The latter is very very good for short drives, or the highway. But, as a daily drive, I am not too sure. And MSIL played foul on the current generation Swift. They reworked the common-rail etc. to bump the FE up. So, that's a wrong example too. What I need is something in between.

And 1.6 MJD got displacement. If they tune for better drivability than FE by not discounting the hardware, I think it will make a glorious engine. If only Ford could tune that engine. Its a pity the yanks never bring sufficient hardware in powertrain department to our country to complement their tuning skills.

Anyways, let me take the 1.6 for a spin and see if it turns my world on its head.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by ramzsys

Here's the torque curve for the 1.6 i found in the internet. It says to me that

from 1500 rpm onwards, i am very dependable and have already surpassed the DDiS 200, Ecosport diesel, et al.

at around 1700 rpm, i surpass the hyundai's peak torque;

And at 2000 rpm, your journey is very lonely.


So i would take the 'below 2000 rpm dead' words with a bucket load of salt unless these numbers are faked.

Source: fiatforum

The graphs tell a lot about engine performance. And the problem with relying on how one feels while driving the car is that there are a lot of things that mask the reality. I believe that pronounced push back to the seat feeling that you get once the peak torque is unleashed in a turbo diesel amplifies the feeling of terrible turbo lag.

SO when one says that a DDIS 320 is dead below 2000 rpm, I reckon that will only be in comparison to the madness that follows later on.

When the acceleration is linear, you do not get to feel any push it is just smooth linear progress and as a result you do not feel much lack of responsiveness. I do not imply that there is no such thing as lag, but simply that we might be over reacting to that due to the shove that normally follows.

[PrasannaDhana]

People who are used to that "shove" or the turbo-kick will love to have it over linear acceleration anyday.

I have enjoyed the first generation Swift Vdi and hated the new swift on the TD. The same kick that the Cruze once had and now lost. That a charm! Happy that the 1.6DDIS has it. :-) I also think the turbolag is being exaggerated, yes, it may be lethargic in bumper to bumper traffic, but nothing close to not driveable at all. It is a matter of getting used to. The 1.6 user will not complain unless he tries drag racing between signal stops.

[shrek]

Here's one more opinion after a back to back TD (1.3,1.6 and my 1.6 duratech ride):
Regardless of what the on-paper torque curve says , the 1.6 is indeed quite dead at the low end - possibly even slower than the 1.3. Its not just the anticipation of the kick that someone suggested. And the so called 'kick' isnt so huge as to be uncontrollable or anything.

A good reason to get the 1.6 - I found the 1.6 is quieter and more refined than the 1.3 (No clutch issues either).

And a good reason to not buy would be - Nexa.

A very nice sensible car overall.

[Ritzvxi]

So happy that the discussion has moved on from the pricing.

Eager to drive the 1.6, you'll not believe but I had my eyes set for the Zeta DDiS 200 from the day I saw the car and the SA told me the approximate pricing.

Although not a fan of dazzling looks, I feel that I'l make up my mind on the purchase after ogling at the S-Cross on the traffic signals and parking lots.

So is no one from the group going for the 1.6?

[nashok]

Originally Posted by Ritzvxi

Although not a fan of dazzling looks, I feel that I'l make up my mind on the purchase after ogling at the S-Cross on the traffic signals and parking lots.

So is no one from the group going for the 1.6?

Good thought. I had seen a blue Alpha 1.6 on road in Delhi on Aug 1st, nicely parked on the roadside amongst a sea of Verna's, Honda City's, i20's, and what not on an extremely busy section of the Road. Was quite surprised as to what the car was doing outside the showroom pre launch on Aug 5th. Well, nobody stopped to have a look, and no curious pedestrians, no attention at all. The car just mingled with whatever is there on the roads. This one is definitely not a head turner !

[romeomidhun]

For Maruti to succeed in this segment, they have to bring the Vitara Diesel 2015 in the 10.5 - 12.5 range, with a locally produced 1.6DDiS. Nothing else will do. As simple as that.

[shashank.nk]

I saw a Blue S cross near my house this morning, have to say it may not be a looker like the Creta or Ecosport but this works for me, subtle and not loud. It was parked right next to a new Jazz and looked bigger for sure. It has decent road presence and isn't too large to be a pain in the city.

It was a 1.6 too, may be one of the very few one's on road

As he drove away, it sounded way more refined when compared to 1.6 units of VAG group so that's a big plus. Good quality inside out, adequate ground clearance, bigger engine it seems like the perfect upgrade for someone who owns a Swift and wants to stay with Maruti.

I'll surely take a TD once the hype dies down and wait for offers on the 1.6 in a few months. I just hope they don't discontinue the 1.6 variants after the pricing fiasco.

[godfreydesylva]

Read a few reviews on British and Aussie websites of the 1.6 S Cross. None of them mention the turbo lag for the vehicle. Has the engine been tuned differently for Indian conditions?

[suzuki san]

Hi,

Just went for a test drive at Nexa (Andheri - West) yesterday on behalf of a friend. Shocked to be told that they do not have any 200DDIS test drive vehicles at all.
So now Maruti are expecting people to buy this vehicle without even offering a test drive.

The much hyped "Nexa" showroom was also nothing to talk about. Work was still going on and I honestly felt that the SK Motors showroom down the road was as good if not better.
Initial impressions were OK. No real "Wow!" factor. I feel it has less road presence than the Creta. Ingress and egress was good. I did not knock my head the way I did on the Ciaz just a few minutes earlier.
Not impressed at all with the leather seats. In fact they did not look like leather at all though the sales girl insisted they were.
Legroom at the rear was pretty good but no rear A/C vents is a big letdown.
Will have to wait another three days for a test drive before I can pen any more impressions.

Regards,
SS

[BlueEyes]

I cancelled my booking for 1.6 Alpha yesterday for obvious reasons. 1.3 did not make sense to me personally. Especially having driven the same engine (albeit with less power) on my Swift VDI from last 6yrs.
Lesson learnt: never pre-book a car before launching

[sandygordon]

Took the TD of the 1.3 and 1.6
Nexa Kochi is located in the heart of the town. So no chance of speeding beyond 90kmph.

First the showroom
Rather small, just enough room for 2 display cars. All RMs in suites. Had mentioned that I was a bhpian. So the RM basically kept quiet and told me that he was not going to explain the features of the cars as he believed I knew a lot about the car. Gave the 1.3 and 1.6 cars for the test drives.

Looks and feel
It was for the first time I saw the cars in traffic. They seemed bigger than in a mall, but certainly smaller than what I had anticipated. (The Creta effect I suppose - The Creta is small but feels like a larger 'SUV'). For me as I looked more and more, I felt it looked a lot like the getz. If swift is a santro, then s cross is the getz. Did not look bulky as the ciaz. Felt well built on the looks front.

The car
In the driver's seat, I preferred a lower seat height setting even though the position was not commanding. The clutch is placed higher than the brakes and there is no space for dead pedal. As the clutch is high, taller drivers will have to push the seat a bit more towards back than what is required. This will eat up the rear knee room. But for a 5 10 person sitting behind me, the seat height is adequate. Rear seat space is okay. More knee room than in the Creta. In the creta even taller drivers sit high and the front seat need not be pushed back as much as in the cross. This frees up space in the back seat of the creta and hence it feels more roomy. For me both back seat squabs are comparable. Creta has a more reclined and comfortable seat back compared to the more vertical one on the S cross. Fit and finish of the interiors are really good and is in the leagues of the VW/Skoda C segmenters. In my opinion the interior quality do not reflect a car above 15L though (personal opinion). The looks and feel of plastics are a notch better than the Creta.

Steering feel was good. It weighed up well in speed. Has some straight ahead play, but is very good compared to the creta. It comes back to centre on its own after a u turn which I feel wont happen in the Creta. I have asked the Hyundai SA for a longish TD sometime this week. Shall post the detailed TD of the Creta and compare it with the Duster and S Cross.

The drive
DDIS 200
NVH levels are okay. You always hear the diesel clatter. Creta is better on that front. Miles ahead of my swift dzire though. Diesel starts with a clatter and settles well into idle. Clutch is very light (not creta light) and the smaller gear lever slots well, like in the ciaz (not as good as in the swift or ddis 320), gear slotting is really good, better than in the creta. At low revs the DDIS 200 pulls well, there is no turbolag compared to my dzire (previous generation). There is a smooth surge of torque (nothing very exciting) past the 2000rpm and accelerates well till 90kmph. Would love to see the 90-100 timings in the 4th gear, as it feels sluggish after 90 in 4th gear. However 60-90kmph is quick by whick fast progress can be made in the city.

DDIS 320
The 320 has slightly louder clatter, but not very loud. Clutch felt more higher set and was more sharp. I stalled the 320 a couple of times due to sharp clutch which was butter smooth on the 200. The acceleraton at lower revs is identical to that of the 200 till 2000 rpm. Post 2000 rpm in 3rd or 4th gear there is this smooth dollop of power (I dont want to call it a kick) and the car surges ahead. Go up to 2000 rpm in the second gear and you get a nervous jump with a jerk and you would feel the car going out of control for a moment. The major 'achilles heel' of using the car in town is upshift from third to fourth. Get past the 2000 rpm shove and shift to 4th, the engine is dead, it feels sluggish (overdrive mode). I have this habit of shifting up midway through an overtake, if you do this on this car you are dead. Similar feel was felt when we slow down on a curve. I was cruising at 70kmph on 4th, slowed down on a banked curve, the rpm dropped below 2k mark and the car slowed down tremendously, so I slotted back to 3rd, created an unwanted jerk and an unwanted shove mid way through the curve. That was a price to be paid for the taller 4th gear. So driving the car in town wont be a pain, but sure will give some nervous moments. I have not tried the 1.6 on the highway. The RM has promised a highway drive in the next couple of days. Overall, 320 with the better tune at lower peak torque and lower cost would have been the ideal engine for the city and occasional highway bursts. In Kerala, one needs to buy the 320 only if you drive on the 4 laned highways early in the morning. Else 320 is 4 lacs wasted plus lots of nervous moments in narrow roads. I did not feel that the performance of the 320 commands a 4 lac premium. Will post after the highway run.

Overall I was more impressed with the DDIS 200 and less with the DDIS 320. May be a 1.6 DDIS 260 was the one required for me. Decent 120 bhp on tap with a healthy 250 nm of torque. Can I plonk a 1.6 CRDI in the Scross.

Conclusion
In the end I want a Creta body and interiors with a DDIS 260 plonked in with driving characterstics of the S cross and suspension and body control of the duster at the price of an Ecosport.
More confused than ever.

[sathya_g_m]

Originally Posted by sandygordon

In the end I want a Creta body and interiors with a DDIS 260 plonked in with driving characterstics of the S cross and suspension and body control of the duster at the price of an Ecosport.
More confused than ever.

That would be a dream SUV.

Today, Did TD both DDIS 200 and 320. I find 320 exciting but will never buy at that price point. DDIS200 good but is not as lively as in Ciaz. I find the rear seat not very comfortable for 3 passenger. My wife, I and the RM sat at the rear and it is not a comfortable fit (All are average to slim fit people). Also rear seat is bit tall and my wife at 5.1 feels that long drive will cause swollen foot as you dont get to rest the feet comfortably.

We are the only people to feel so? (Note Ecosport do have similar seat height). I went with a hope to book it today, but some how this car is not impressive. S-Cross interior and exterior somehow hides the length/width of the car. Feels small from outside and cramped inside. I am not sure where all the length of 4300 mm gone (Bonnet too long?).

Moved ahead straight to Hyundai Showroom though Creta is over my stretch budget . TD Vehicle wasn't available so just explored the Display car. Creta! Wow! Creta is miles ahead in interior space. We were thinking about stretching a bit and get 1.6SX. Kept it on hold for a TD.

By the evening, called up Ciaz Sales who promptly turned up for another TD. DDIS 200 is lively in Ciaz and wants to be pushed than S-cross. NVH is way better and we were sold out to Ciaz, Lots of space and comfortable seats. Decided to wait till end of the month to see if the hybrid is launched (or at least get a launch schedule), will go ahead and book Ciaz. Perhaps will book even if they don't launch it by then.

[pannags]

Nice detailed write up Sandy.

BTW, I thought the clutch play was particularly short and the dead pedal very conveniently slotted?! Perhaps, your inference was more in comparison to the Creta.

Originally Posted by sandygordon

Overall I was more impressed with the DDIS 200 and less with the DDIS 320. May be a 1.6 DDIS 260 was the one required for me. Decent 120 bhp on tap with a healthy 250 nm of torque. Can I plonk a 1.6 CRDI in the Scross.

Well! Pete's box can satiate most of your power needs on the DDiS200, but you have the Creta for a contender.

Wondering how your flowchart looks now?

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by adimicra

Don't agree. A car is just not about necessity and practicality...it's also about desirability and personality. A car, particularly above 10 lakhs needs to look the part at least to the owner, IMO. It's just not what other think about the car...it's about how I feel every time I look at my car.

If what you said is true, companies should not invest in the exterior design of the car in which case our roads will be filled with ugly but highly practical vehicles. Not a pretty sight.

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Don't agree at all. Please speak for yourself and all other S-Cross buyers or lovers but I just abhor this car. A thing of beauty indeed is a joy. Ever wondered why people flock to sleek low-riding super cars and take pics. Most do not know all the technology under the hood and many do not care either. But they are all drawn to the ooomph looks these cars ooze even when they are parked. I don't understand why would anyone buy an ugly car. We are not in 70s USSR where you have Hobson's choice. I JUST CANNOT STAND UGLY CARS. PERIOD. My concern is if such cars sell, we will see more and more ugly cars. Even today, yester-years cars like Lancers, Civics, Cruzes turn heads.

Originally Posted by Vigkey

I agree that the market is maturing and buyers are ready to look beyond the looks, but the fact is that the first impression of a car is made by the looks. Let us not discount the role of looks in the success of a car so easily. For me, the car should go with my personality - so I prefer a classy but sedate looking than a flamboyant car. But I will never go for car that I feel is ugly.



Comments like this break the healthy discussion that is happening in this thread and this coming from a senior member like you is not healthy for this forum. Please consider my request.

Hi
I do not really discount the "looks aspect" when buying a car. Which is why, if you observe, I have mentioned that no longer is a buyer "as" moved by head turning ability and presence.

Basically, yes, to an extent the buyer is certainly influenced by looks and presence etc, but nowadays, with a more mature market or maturing market, people do place a good amount of weightage on "function" over "form". Which, I will argue, is exactly one of the clear reasons for the rise of the Hot Hatch and the CUV type vehicles.

By the way, those Audi-esque or Volvo-esque renditions were pretty nice and inspired.

The S Cross, Creta and similar vehicles seem to be on the rise and seem to be the way to the future because of a decent level of functionality and specs as well, which attributes are more generally aspitarional and desirable than the mere "snob value" or "desirability" attached to the more conventional sedans and the like.