[volkman10]

Originally Posted by Sree73

Rough Guesstimate
Brezza -9.5K
Ertiga - 5.5K
S-Cross - 2.5K
Gypsy - 0.3K

In reality here are the numbers from Auto Punditz,

Brezza -10046
Ertiga - 5505
S-Cross - 2206
Gypsy -106

[EZrider]

Hello all,

I have been following up on some of the discussions on possible turbo lag in the 1.6 and thought I will give my two cents on this and a few other observations

A brief background first. I suppose you can call me a ‘diesel head’. Over the years, I have owned and tinkered with a variety of cars and jeeps, from the days of the early OPEC driven fuel price hike , which drove many to retrofit the OM616 ‘Matador tempo’ engine or the Isuzu in their Ambassadors, and later owning Mahindra CJ series, MM540, a Willys 1948 with a diesel engine mated to a three speed gearbox to later diesel engine cars such as the Swift, Innova, Scorpio 4x4, a Laura and many others . Each of these cars had their own signature quirks and one had to learn a few tricks to coax the best out of it. For example, in the OM616 Amby, instead of having your pedal to the floor, if you just ease off the gas the gas bit one could extract the last ounce of power from the engine. On the other side, because of gearing, you had jeeps such as my three speed gear box plus diesel combo where the first gear was practically unusable for normal road use. Over time, when you learnt these idiosyncrasies, it would lead to a relationship where man and machine happily drove off into the sunset. Turbo lag was unheard of those days because of the one obvious reason. Only trucks had big whistling turbo chargers.

So anyways, sometime last year, the itch to buy another car began. And yet again I was in the market for a comfortable tourer with a diesel motor. A 4x4 also seemed useful as I keep running around the western ghats with highway runs between Chennai, Bangalore, Coimbatore. Had shortlisted the Duster 4x4, and a used Fortuner. At one point had even looked at an automatic Vento as my aching left knee sorely missed the Laura L&K I once owned. Had almost finalized on the Duster 4x4 as it was easy to drive in traffic in Bangalore and Chennai and would take me to Coorg and Masinagudi in decent comfort. Just before booking the car, came confirmed news of the new Duster which made me back off. Sometime later the 1.6 Scross was launched and on a lark went for a test drive last year.

I found the interior of the car to be better a bit more spacious compared to the Duster, and after a highway sprint found it to be a decent handling car, feeling more sure footed than any typical Maruti. For the revised discounted price Nexa was asking , it seemed value for money. I was planning to buy it in Bangalore, but found that the Nexa chaps in Madurai could get me a Grey Alpha 1.6 in two weeks and so I went for it.

The day I bought the car, I was quite underwhelmed after driving around. The steering felt light and disconnected and there was some turbo lag. Felt like a typical Suzuki with a more powerful motor. Had major buyer’s remorse! Next day as planned went and swapped the tyres and wheels, and a day later left for Coorg from Madurai via Coimbatore to ride up the ghats enroute. Now the Michelins made a lot of difference with the steering weighing up more, with better feel. The cabin was quiet devoid of tyre and wind noise (unlike the duster). I would recommend all Scross owners to go ahead and swap tyres after purchase. Crossing Bhavani Dam and going up the Ghat section to Mysore, there was heavy truck traffic. On many occasions had to stop midway on an incline and start off. I found the combination of tallish gearing with turbo lag painful with frequent gear changes. FYI, mine is a late 2016 edition which some users say probably has an improved ECU map.

After driving around in Coorg for a few days, left to Bangalore. The road leading out of my friend’s house in Coorg has a steep incline, followed by a rut near the gate followed by a sharp left which leads to another gradient. This was a stress test for the car. And I stalled near the gate! My friends son (who just learnt to drive) who was with me asked ‘Uncle shall I fix an L sign in the rear window’? Just the day before, he was with me, when I was driving my friends BMW X1, and I was having fun throwing it into corners, and he was looking green and sea sick when we got back. Well he got even and we all had a good laugh.

On the way back, couldn’t shake the thought that I had probably made a bad decision. Onwards to Bangalore and then on to Chennai, opened her up a bit more and it was quite an enjoyable ride on the highway with plenty of power, a silent cabin , a good ride, decent handling and good ergonomics. By the time I had reached Madurai with a scenic detour to Kodaikanal, the car had run more than 2000 Kms.

I then noticed a change in the car. For the better.

I found myself pottering about town in third gear, occasionally to second to go over a speed bump, just coasting along with minimal throttle inputs. The car felt very different and suddenly the lag seemed to be very minimal. I called my service advisor and asked him if he as updated the ECU and he hadn’t. One possible reason for this could be that this is a self-learning ECU and now things were more set to my driving cycle. I don’t know if that Ghat and highway run, followed by bumper to bumper city traffic and one more highway run ‘taught’ the ECU a few things.
One important thing to do in cars with turbo lag is to change your style of driving accordingly. Instead of stomping the gas when it is off turbo zone, getting a turbo kick and whooshing off in every gear, I am quite gentle in acceleration till the turbo kicks in. Then onwards, my inputs are progressive rather than pedal to metal. This way, it is more pleasant as well for occupants who travel with you. So today I am a lot happier than the first week I bought the car.

Few other things. I’m just being a bit fussy and nit-picking here.

I find the longish nose a bit awkward. Urban jeepers who have long intellectual conversations in coffee shops on approach / departure angles will be disappointed and should look elsewhere to satisfy their offroad cravings.
My version, the Alpha came with LED parking lights (thought they were DRL’s) with automatic headlights and what not. Here on the light stalk, I find the first turn forwards turns on the automatic mode; another turn and it goes to park with the LED lights on / headlights off and one more turn again turns on the lights to manual headlights mode. Many a time, I want to just switch on parking lights on without firing up those HID’s. I wish Maruti would have reworked the headlight stalk where a anticlockwise turn would switch the lights to auto mode and all forward turns would do what any conventional light does.

On the driver’s side arm rest there are the usual set of switches for door lock, windows up/down, mirror adjust etc. Now only one of the switches –the AUTO window down gets illuminated at night. And it’s not like each switch has some tactile difference for you to help you operate this at night, especially when you don’t want to look at the switch. It is too much to ask for all the switches to have a small pilot light for all switches and controls?

The OVRM’s don’t fold when you shut off the engine. And when you realize after turning off the engine, you need a few presses of the stop-start button to get this done. Just a simple reprogram from Maruti should do this I guess.

My 15 year old niece who says K-Pop is the greatest genre of music ever known to mankind has declared the audio system to be ‘Awesome’. As her Hipster audiophile uncle who grew up on vinyl records, McIntosh valve amplifiers and a heavy dose of Deep Purple, Doors and Santana I roll up my eyes and sigh in quiet desperation, lamenting what the world has come to. The head unit is also moody occasionally with the navigation having a clunky interface. I also have the habit of driving in the highway with my headlights on. This dims the head unit and with my driving glasses, the screen loses legibility.

The color temperature of the HID lamp could have been a bit warmer and the beam it throws imparts a cheapish after-market look. In a Skoda or BMW, when you are on low beam the projector lens cleanly cuts off light like almost a line is drawn in front. Here it bleeds a bit which gives it the aftermarket look. Wish it was a bit brighter too, as I have antiglare film in my windshield.

So finally, what and who is this car meant for? I would say this is a fast diesel Grand Tourer, for a smallish family who doesn’t need an innova for their weekend getaways. And one who would pack their luggage sensibly - not like they are migrating all the time with 7 suitcases for every weekend trip. I say this as the Duster seems to have better boot space at the expense of interior space for the rear passenger comparatively. Rear seat passengers have also have been happy with the ride of the S Cross.

This car is in its elements coasting along the highways at about 120 to 140 with fatigue free intercity travel with good fuel economy thrown in. If your drive only involves frequent stop-start in narrow crowded city streets, this might not be the car for you.

I can see this car popular in the UK where you drive in sparse traffic, turn in sweeping roundabouts and head on to motorways where you would need to drive at a fairly fast clip. Here, im sure the car will not disappoint.

For India, my recommendation to Maruti for the Scross 1.6 would be a small tweak in the gearing. I would find a shorter first and second gear more useful. Something like what Renault has done to their Duster AWD. I think Maruti has imported the drivetrain straight from their plant in Hungary and bolted it on and despatched them to the NEXA showrooms. An automatic transmission is sorely missed in this car. This would have been the car of choice for Vento/Rapid DSG customers. In the 1.6, Maruti should have a stability management system as the car goes to 180 kmph without too much fuss and the speed is well masked. Good job however that they have all wheel disc brakes. Even the more expensive Innova doesn’t have them. I would also recommend that Maruti signs a quick divorce with JK Tyres and looks at Bridgestone which seems to be a popular OEM vendor. For those who have already bought the S Cross, I strongly recommend you upgrade your tyres. As for me, I found the alloy wheel design very staid and off it went. I changed mine to the Brezza’s design and it has a nice ‘german’ look to it. I didn’t go for the retrofit option that Nexa was offering which had an aftermarket look.

A strong positive as always is Maruti’s service network. I have had consistent good experience over the years. I have noticed that whether you drive in an 800 or an Omni or this SCross, the service advisors ensure they keep you happy and always worry that you may give a negative feedback on your remarks. Compare this to my friend who bought a Duster in Bangalore which has issues that Whitefield Renault still haven’t been able to address. His complaint of a peculiar whining noise from the steering rack on full lock was attributed to auditory hallucinations by the service advisor, and a distinct shudder from the clutch after having run just 3000 kms was replied with a ‘It’s very common in the 85 BHP saar’!

Now, I am keenly watching for news on possibility of a Remap via OBD; that is, without taking the ECU to the ICU and opening it up!

Overall with other similarly priced options around 15 Lacs, I would give the S Cross 1.6 Alpha, a 7/10 ranking with an Indian ownership perspective.

[BoneCollector]

Originally Posted by EZrider

Hello all,


I also have the habit of driving in the highway with my headlights on. This dims the head unit and with my driving glasses, the screen loses legibility.

I faced the same issue initially in my Brezza. You can overcome this very easily. All you got to do is tinker the instrument cluster illumination in MID. Just put it to the brightest one and the head unit will not dim with the headlights switched on (same case as in Brezza).

[indian21r]

Guys,

My Scross 1.6 booked on 23rd Feb'17 is going to reach the dealership today or tomorrow. I will do the PDI and take delivery on either Monday or Wednesday depending on when the other formalities are complete. One question hanging on my head is about the tires. My knowledge on them is pretty limited

Should I change them right away or wait till they need to be replaced?

There seems to be an almost unanimous view that the JK tires do not do justice to the S Cross, especially the 1.6 MJD. So what tires are the best alternatives given the following

Least noisy tires with excellent grip
If they last 40k km's that is good

I am not particular about any brand. Will upsizing give better results or it really does not matter much for S Cross. What are the options in Hyderabad. I saw feedback on this thread that the buyback price for JK's in the range of Rs 4000; while Michelin's, Continental, hankook etc are in Rs 8000-9000 range?

For those who have swapped tires, do you feel there is a better product

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by indian21r

Should I change them right away or wait till they need to be replaced?

Yes, please change them immediately after delivery. Also new Elanzo tyres cost only 3500 Rs. You can expect buy back price of 2500 Rs.

Go with Michelin primacy 3ST. It has the least noise and would definitely last 40k KM. It's priced around 7500-7800 Rs.

Originally Posted by EZrider

Now, I am keenly watching for news on possibility of a Remap via OBD; that is, without taking the ECU to the ICU and opening it up!

Not going to happen anytime soon. I have already asked few largest ECU remap tool manufacturers about this. According to them, the ECU in 1.6 S-Cross : EDC17C49 is used mainly in tractors and only in few cars. So it's not in their priority to develop OBD protocol as of now.

[indian21r]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Yes, please change them immediately after delivery. Also new Elanzo tyres cost only 3500 Rs. You can expect buy back price of 2500 Rs.

Go with Michelin primacy 3ST. It has the least noise and would definitely last 40k KM. It's priced around 7500-7800 Rs.

Thanks Doc I will look at them. Time to speak with some tyrewallahs now

If they are not in immediate stock any other option. Stock size is good or is an upsize a better choice

[Sip]

Hi folks! JK Elanzo has been one of the most talked subject on this review. After driving 11000 kms, I have replaced those tyres with 215/60 R16 Michelin Primacy 3ST in my 1.6 S-Cross. Though JK Elanzo has got lot of bashing for being noisy, but for me this was never an issue. Important thing responsible for this change was road grip and issue of early ABS activation on account of deficient grip. This has safety connotations. Also at certain high speed car felt the need of better tyres.

Difference felt:-

- Car feels even more planted now.

- Earlier front wheels would get unsettled momentarily during sudden high RPM/ releasing clutch with high RPM in 2nd and 3rd gear, no such issues now.

- Steering slightly heavier now.

- Marginal increase in comfort is perceived.

Though I couldn't understand why 215/60 R16 is size wise slightly bigger tyre than 205/60 R16 whereas both are from Michelin

[bhpfaninblr]

S-cross being a premium car deserves the Michelin or atleast Bridgestone as stock tyres. Somebody should mail this thread to Suzuki India. Almost everyone has upgraded or thought of upgrading tyres from JK.

The Michelin tyres look great and the safety they provide is unmatched from what I hear from my friend who has the 1.3

Originally Posted by Sip

Hi folks! JK Elanzo has been one of the most talked subject on this review. After driving 11000 kms, I have replaced those tyres with 215/60 R16 Michelin Primacy 3ST in my 1.6 S-Cross. Though JK Elanzo has got lot of bashing for being noisy, but for me this was never an issue. Important thing responsible for this change was road grip and issue of early ABS activation on account of deficient grip. This has safety connotations. Also at certain high speed car felt the need of better tyres.

Difference felt:-

- Car feels even more planted now.

- Earlier front wheels would get unsettled momentarily during sudden high RPM/ releasing clutch with high RPM in 2nd and 3rd gear, no such issues now.

- Steering slightly heavier now.

- Marginal increase in comfort is perceived.

Though I couldn't understand why 215/60 R16 is size wise slightly bigger tyre than 205/60 R16 whereas both are from Michelin

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by Sip

Though I couldn't understand why 215/60 R16 is size wise slightly bigger tyre than 205/60 R16 whereas both are from Michelin

I guess you are talking about the height. 215/60 R16 will have more sidewall height than 205/60 R16. You will gain little GC too.

205/60 R16 : Sidewall is 60 percent of 205

215/60 R16 : Sidewall is 60 percent of 215

Hence the difference!!

[indian21r]

Originally Posted by Sip

After driving 11000 kms, I have replaced those tyres with 215/60 R16 Michelin Primacy 3ST in my 1.6 S-Cross

Hi what is the price you paid for.

When I checked online, price of 205/60 is Rs 7672 vs 215/60 which is Rs 9412.

How are the Continental MC5's

[Sip]

Originally Posted by indian21r

Hi what is the price you paid for.

When I checked online, price of 205/60 is Rs 7672 vs 215/60 which is Rs 9412.

How are the Continental MC5's

I paid 8700/- for 215/60 R16 while 205/60 R16 Michelin P3ST was quoted at 7400/- . I also checked some online sites and felt the pricing I paid was on lower side. Anyway buyback for JK Elanzo was Rs.2000/- each.

Regarding Continental MC5 only thing I heard that its nearly as good a tyre as Michelin but with slightly harder compound.

[Sree73]

Originally Posted by Sip

Though I couldn't understand why 215/60 R16 is size wise slightly bigger tyre than 205/60 R16.

Hi Sip,
215/60 R16 means,
215 = 215mm tyre width at the standard inflated pressure.
60 = Aspect Ratio, which is tyre sidewall height represented as a percentage of the tyre width.
R = Radial
16 = Wheel dia in inches.

There are two more important parameter you have to look for other than the size of tyre. These are load rating and speed rating. (Say 92 H in the OEM tyre). This means the tyre is rated for 630Kg load and a max speed rating of 210 KM/Hr - (Need to verify this exact number of speed rating. 210 Km/Hr is from my memory)

When you changed 205/60 with 215/60, Your overall tyre diameter went up by 12mm and your GC of vehicle went up by 6mm. (Original GC 180mm).

A thumb rule to be considered when you are upsizing is to restrict the upsize within 2% of the original size. Otherwise many issues like speedo error and tyre rubbing while taking turns will be more prominent.

One more thing to keep in mind while replacing tyres is to check the date of manufacturing.

There will be a 4 digit number on the sidewall of the tyre. Say 2115. This says the tyre is manufactured in the 21st week of 2015 (First two digits week / Last two digits year). Try for tyres which are within 6 months old. 3 months ideal )

[indian21r]

Originally Posted by Sree73

When you changed 205/60 with 215/60, Your overall tyre diameter went up by 12mm and your GC of vehicle went up by 6mm. (Original GC 180mm).

A thumb rule is when you are upsizing, restrict the upsize within 2% of the original size. Otherwise many issues like speedo error and Tyre rubbing while taking turns can happen.

Sree73, will 215/60 R16 be the maximum upsize for S Cross without causing too many issues. This is within the 2% error margin

Someone mentioned on this thread that stock size itself is perfect. Upsize may cause issues(I cannot find who said it)

[Sree73]

Originally Posted by indian21r

Sree73, will 215/60 R16 be the maximum upsize for S Cross without causing too many issues. This is within the 2% error margin

Someone mentioned on this thread that stock size itself is perfect. Upsize may cause issues(I cannot find who said it)

205/60 R16 is perfectly sized tyre for S-Cross. Going for 215/60 is OK if you are interested in slightly improved GC. The OEM wheel of S-Cross is 16 x 6 and for this wheel size, the max tyre size recommended is 205. Even though going for a 215 section will not be of much issue in 16x6. Any size above 215 will not at all ideal for the OEM wheels and in a way, an over kill for the Car itself.

[Sip]

Originally Posted by Sree73

205/60 R16 is perfectly sized tyre for S-Cross. Going for 215/60 is OK if you are interested in slightly improved GC. The OEM wheel of S-Cross is 16 x 6 and for this wheel size, the max tyre size recommended is 205. Even though going for a 215 section will not be of much issue in 16x6.

Vitara Brezza stock tyre is 215/60 R16 hence I think 215/60 R16 will be good for S-Cross too. I hope alloy dimensions for Vitara Brezza and S-Cross are same. Sree73 what negatives you imagine with this up size for s-cross ? Thanks in advance