[SafeDrive0107]

Originally Posted by firstguri

But still don't let that scenario deny cars like Abarth Punto to people like me.

Originally Posted by thedragula

To my mind, a powerful car de-stresses the driving experience. It makes driving (as a whole) more relaxing because you don't have to whip the engine for every move. Small inputs get the car to where you want it to be.

Machines like these can kill if treated like a toy and without due respect for the power.

Absolutely agree with you guys - firstguri & thedragula. These cars can certainly reduce the stress of driving and make you feel more relaxed. No doubt about that. All that is required is a respect for what these machines can do and don't try to stretch the limits.

[keroo1099]

Originally Posted by thedragula

I tend to agree with both the arguments. Both have their ounce of truth in them.

To my mind, a powerful car de-stresses the driving experience. It makes driving (as a whole) more relaxing because you don't have to whip the engine for every move. Small inputs get the car to where you want it to be..

...Machines like these can kill if treated like a toy and without due respect for the power.

+1000 to what you wrote.

I find myself doing exactly what you describe after acquiring the T-Jet. Always drive within your capability, the cars capability, and keep a margin for error.

[GKMahajan]

Originally Posted by thedragula

I tend to agree with both the arguments. Both have their ounce of truth in them.

To my mind, a powerful car de-stresses the driving experience. It makes driving (as a whole) more relaxing because you don't have to whip the engine for every move. Small inputs get the car to where you want it to be...

...Machines like these can kill if treated like a toy and without due respect for the power.

Dear thedragula,

Very well put.

I can share a personal experience here.

In the late 1980's I had Enfield Fury (165 cc 15.2 BHP 5 gear (new in those days)) capable of 0-60 kmph in 4 seconds. If I remember right it had a maximum speed of 140+ kmph. It could do this with 128 kg weight.

My friends loved to sit pillion with me. However, they always complained that I was letting a 50 cc Luna overtake me in city traffic just because he was using the horn! My response was always the same - it is not a race! There are no prizes to be won. There is no safety equipment around - which should be there during formal races. The Luna would sound like an aeroplane at high rpm and travel at 30 kmph. I was not able to go into top gear below 40 kmph. Most of the time I was shifting into 5th gear at 50~60 kmph. I always felt that the person who is stretching the vehicle to its limits is killing the vehicle and risking people's lives too! To me it felt like - the Luna guy has an ego issue - I don't!

When I had a Honda City, capable of 180 mph, I drove at 70~90 most of the time - even on highways! I used the easily available power for overtaking only.

I am totally with you when you say that the average speed actually becomes less when you know that extra power is available as soon as you want it!

I have traveled in other people's cars/bikes. I have met fast and slow drivers. I have met safe and rash drivers. AND slow is not equal to safe and fast is not equal to rash!

My 2 cents!

Girish Mahajan

[Dr.Naren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=de...&v=PDvNH-Qyt9U

Motorbeam 0-100 is usually faster than other reviews
Figo diesel 9.5 sec
Polo GT TSI 10.09 sec
Abarth punto 8.96 sec

Polo GT TSI would have been still faster if there was no 3000 rpm launch limiter

[polo_ankit]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?app=de...&v=PDvNH-Qyt9U

Motorbeam 0-100 is usually faster than other reviews
Figo diesel 9.5 sec
Polo GT TSI 10.09 sec
Abarth punto 8.96 sec

Polo GT TSI would have been still faster if there was no 3000 rpm launch limiter

I don't think there's launch control in the GT. What is this limiter you talk about? The quarter mile time is less than a second's difference. I'll have my DSG now thank you very much

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by polo_ankit

I don't think there's launch control in the GT. What is this limiter you talk about? The quarter mile time is less than a second's difference. I'll have my DSG now thank you very much

I meant GT TSI cannot be revved till 6500 rpm and launch for 0-100 timing. I am not very sure about it as I have not checked it personally. But I have read it somewhere.

[polo_ankit]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I meant GT TSI cannot be revved till 6500 rpm and launch for 0-100 timing. I am not very sure about it as I have not checked it personally. But I have read it somewhere

You mean rev till 6500 rpm with the brake pressed & the car in gear? Or just a regular pedal to the metal start? If it's the latter, then no, it doesn't go to max rpm in the 1st gear no matter the mode. Even in tiptronic (or paddles), it goes to 4.5k-5k & upshifts to 2nd.

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by polo_ankit

You mean rev till 6500 rpm with the brake pressed & the car in gear? Or just a regular pedal to the metal start? If it's the latter, then no, it doesn't go to max rpm in the 1st gear no matter the mode. Even in tiptronic (or paddles), it goes to 4.5k-5k & upshifts to 2nd.

Is it possible to rev the car to red line in neutral? Say in Honda diesel cars, they don't go above 2500 rpm in neutral and you can't launch the car with maximum rpm for 0-100 timing.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Is it possible to rev the car to red line in neutral? Say in Honda diesel cars, they don't go above 2500 rpm in neutral and you can't launch the car with maximum rpm for 0-100 timing.

Well you would not want to launch a car at max rpm for a good 0-100 time one would ideally launch it where peak torque is delivered keeping in mind the traction available as you would not want to spin the wheels too much launching with peak torque delivery. Most diesels serve up healthy levels of torque around 2k revs, while petrols offer their torques at about 4k revs one should have no trouble launching a Diesel Honda. Besides, it would be silly to leave it neutral and then dump the clutch and shift into first if you want a good 0-100 time

[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Well you would not want to launch a car at max rpm for a good 0-100 time one would ideally launch it where peak torque is delivered keeping in mind the traction available as you would not want to spin the wheels too much launching with peak torque delivery. Most diesels serve up healthy levels of torque around 2k revs, while petrols offer their torques at about 4k revs one should have no trouble launching a Diesel Honda. Besides, it would be silly to leave it neutral and then dump the clutch and shift into first if you want a good 0-100 time

I have seen couple of 0-100 videos and the launch was always at near redline. 2000 rpm launch for diesel for 0-100 timing is definitely a news to me. Also, what I have observed is many reviews get the 0-100 timing different by a great margin for diesel cars. Ideal gear shifts (power torque curve where it meets each other) is important for good 0-100 timing. But I seriously doubt if launch at 2000 rpm is enough for a good timing. Happy to get corrected
Cheers!!

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I have seen couple of 0-100 videos and the launch was always at near redline. 2000 rpm launch for diesel for 0-100 timing is definitely a news to me. Also, what I have observed is many reviews get the 0-100 timing different by a great margin for diesel cars. Ideal gear shifts (power torque curve where it meets each other) is important for good 0-100 timing. But I seriously doubt if launch at 2000 rpm is enough for a good timing. Happy to get corrected
Cheers!!

Firstly, I never said that one launches at peak torque delivery. One does so, keeping in mind wheelspin so typically a few revs higher but never ever ever at the redline

Go back and watch some more of your videos of cars that have launch control (computer knows best eh) notice that for each car, launches will be made around the peak torque delivery rpm (you can google the specs on each car) sometimes 500-1000 revs higher than that so as to manage wheelspin. Give me a City Diesel and IF it doesn't let me rev higher than 2500 (3000 would be ideal for most diesels) in 1st gear with the clutch pushed in (because if I want a perfect launch I won't be doing it from neutral) then with some progressive releasing of the clutch, I can get you a solid 0-100 time.

You may have watched your videos but I have actually been there and done that mate

[Vik0728]

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I have seen couple of 0-100 videos and the launch was always at near redline. 2000 rpm launch for diesel for 0-100 timing is definitely a news to me.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

You may have watched your videos but I have actually been there and done that mate

Ok OK guys calm down

That video by Motorbeam actually proves the age old saying

'There is no Replacement for Displacement' !!

And as many other FIAT experts & gurus have already confirmed, Abarth Punto would have probably shaved off another second with a better gearbox.

The revving is restricted to 4k RPM on both TSI & TDI engine in Neutral, from VW. Additionally, from what I understand, TCS cannot be completely cut off on TSI. So there is no way this German will ever get the kind of launch the Punto Abarth can.

In fact, TSI cannot even match its sibling TDI during the initial take off. Check the video below:

Link

All said and done, Punto Abarth is the 'Current Bar' in Hot Hatch territory in India. Its really a pity that all those who always cribbed & complained about Punto being underpowered are not even lining up to buy this Italian Marvel

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Vik0728

Its really a pity that all those who always cribbed & complained about Punto being underpowered are not even lining up to buy this Italian Marvel

Was simply arguing that it is silly to lunch cars while redlining mate either way, despite the odd ergos and the IMO ugly modern styling (I much prefer the original Grande Punto's styling with those maserati headlamps and cheesegrate grille) I would definitely lap the car up once Fiat provides a competitive gearbox on the car which as per reports, is scheduled to be launched here soon

[pdma]

Folks,

Slightly off topic, is it only me who felt that the Abarth was deliberately slowed down towards the end for the other car to catch up. There was a wide enough initial lead and a very good margin during the run. May be just me and wanted to check if anyone else felt the same.

Cheers,
pdma

[keroo1099]

I really don't understand why people get hung up on 0-60 times because you will never ever be doing launches like that under normal driving conditions, unless it's to show off or you think you are at a drag meet. It's way more important to see how much time the car take's to accelerate when driven normally, and by that I mean accelerating from just above idle when say you are at a stoplight, or the time it takes to accelerate from say 40 to 60 when passing slower traffic in the city. But this is just my view, others may feel differently.

And finally, a Happy and Safe New Year to all.