[amalji]

Originally Posted by sathish81

but now worried about safety of the car. I have sent a mail to RM with link to this thread and requested him to escalate it to maruthi for a response. I do know that lighter weight does not always mean less tensile strength - hoping I am proved right as I really liked the car.

Was searching lfor Baleno NCAP results but couldn't find it- if someone finds a link or have additional info about safety of the car please post.

You are right in this - "light doesn't mean unsafe". Japanese manufacturers are masters in making light and safe cars. The only question with Baleno is that it is something which no one has ever tried on a premium hatch. Inspite of it being atleast 10% bigger than the swift, the car is 10% lighter than the swift ( which is already considered a light car ). And not having a crash test done till date raises these concerns.

[ajitstreet]

Questions about rigidity and structural integrity of Baleno seems to be justified because the company has not been providing any solid explanation for the low kerb weight of the car except the 'made of mettle' punchline. When I did TD of the car, I asked the SA about the issue who said that its due to superior design ( translated to Kwid-like less nuts and bolts) and use of high tensile steel. These superficial explanations could never convince me.

Baleno is a good looking car (though difficult to say if its premium!) and Maruti should give detailed explanations to public/customers about the issue so that fence sitters would jump to buy the car.

[MercFan]

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[Chillout]

Yesterday I got to check out the Baleno in person, opened the rear door and didn't even feel like stepping into the car. The door was so light and first thing that stuck my mind was the impact my Fiesta had when a bike did not bother to stop in a red signal and hit my rear door. The Fiesta only sustained a dent, however if the same thing had happened to the Baleno it would have been a different damage.

For me, this a car meant for city usage where you speed limits are well within control, I wouldn't dream of taking it on the highways.

Again this is my perception and we will have to wait for crash worthiness ratings.

[amalji]

Being light weight definitely increases the probability of the car bouncing with a higher velocity ( because the velocity transferred depends on the mass of the object, kinetic energy of the impact being taken as a constant ) and the chances of losing control is more for a lighter vehicle. This part is still OK for me. The more serious part is how rigid the passenger shell is. And Maruti not coming out with a proper crash test will only increase that suspicion.

Regarding Hyundai, I seldom take this brand seriously. They are more interested in pleasing the customer with funky stuff than making the fundamentals strong. But, it works in India.

[bhansali_hardik]

Originally Posted by amalji

Being light weight definitely increases the probability of the car bouncing with a higher velocity ( because the velocity transferred depends on the mass of the object, kinetic energy of the impact being taken as a constant ) and the chances of losing control is more for a lighter vehicle. This part is still OK for me. The more serious part is how rigid the passenger shell is. And Maruti not coming out with a proper crash test will only increase that suspicion.

Well, I totally agree to your initial point about riding safe is only half the story. But your fundamentals are totally wrong in the second point. You just negated your own statement about mass and velocity!

I would still stick on to waiting for the crash test results rather than speculating stuff!

PS : It amuses me how and why do the newly launched cars always, always have horrifying crashes circulating on the internet.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by bhansali_hardik

Well, I totally agree to your initial point about riding safe is only half the story. But your fundamentals are totally wrong in the second point. You just negated your own statement about mass and velocity!

I would still stick on to waiting for the crash test results rather than speculating stuff!

PS : It amuses me how and why do the newly launched cars always, always have horrifying crashes circulating on the internet.

Kinetic energy transferred being constant, when you decrease the mass, the velocity with which you bounce off increases for a lighter car ( especially when you are hit from the back )

It's basic physics. It's easier to kick a lighter stone out of its position than a heavier one

And regarding newly launched cars, it's only natural that people's attentions are on it. Whether it's good or bad, it spreads like a wild fire.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by sathish81

I have sent a mail to RM with link to this thread and requested him to escalate it to maruthi for a response. I do know that lighter weight does not always mean less tensile strength - hoping I am proved right as I really liked the car.

If i dont get a satifactory response-have to look at other options (zest amt,aspire,tuv). S-cross isn't an option for me as there are no automatic variants and I had decided quite sometime ago that my next car will be an auto - amt, cvt or torque conversion I don't care as long as it suits my drivablity expectations.

Was searching for Baleno NCAP results but couldn't find it- if someone finds a link or have additional info about safety of the car please post.

The Baleno has not yet been crash tested. You will be able to find Euro NCAP results in the next couple of months but those are not really applicable to the Indian models. Even if Maruti responds through your RM, it will be typical marketing-speak.

You have to take a bit of a leap of faith here as far as safety goes if you want the Baleno. To be fair, most of its rivals have also not been crash tested (the Indian models that is). You can't really claim that the Aspire, the Zest or the TUV are safer in the absence of any crash test data.

If safety is a really important factor for you, consider the Polo GT, which has passed crash tests and is available with a good automatic gearbox.

[sathish81]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

If safety is a really important factor for you, consider the Polo GT, which has passed crash tests and is available with a good automatic gearbox.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will look at GT- but I do have my aprehensions about VW as a brand after recent scandal. Also, haven't heard good things about VW service in chennai.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sathish81

Thanks for the suggestion. I will look at GT- but I do have my aprehensions about VW as a brand after recent scandal. Also, haven't heard good things about VW service in chennai.

My bet will be on the jazz. I consider that as the best all round premium hatch in the segment. VW service is poor and costly. You add the small spaced cabin with that huge hump on the polo and you are losing a lot for this VW.

[Dr.Q]

Originally Posted by amalji

My bet will be on the jazz. I consider that as the best all round premium hatch in the segment. VW service is poor and costly. You add the small spaced cabin with that huge hump on the polo and you are losing a lot for this VW.

I test drove the Jazz, my first car being a Honda civic, I was very disappointed with it. I really really looked forward to its launch but the end product left me wanting more. The first issue was the soft plastics in the interior which my spouse could easily press with ease. The other problems being, worthwhile features in higher variants only, the super premium car pricing, the arrogant answer of the dealership by repeating "it's a honda" to any comparative question, to name a few. The Jazz CVT is a whole 50k costlier than the baleno. I wondered that if the dealership gets arrogant before selling the car, how would the A.S.S work out?
I'm a proud owner of a white baleno CVT and feel completely satisfied with my choice. Every time I brake I feel more confident with how the car handles.
Will upload the photos soon after the holidays.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Dr.Q

The first issue was the soft plastics in the interior which my spouse could easily press with ease.

I would be more interested in other things than how soft the plastic feels. I would want these manufacturers to not compromise on the fundamentals of the car. And jazz is built on the robust city platform. The funky accessories and better plastics can come, but not at the cost of fundamentals. With Baleno, I've serious doubts on its crash worthiness ( I hope I'm proven wrong by the crash tests ). 850 odd kgs for such a big car at such a low price puts serious doubts.

And regarding the drivability in typical Indian conditions, I would any day prefer the lag less i-dtec engine over the ddis even with the higher NVH. With petrol, both engines are almost at par.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by amalji

With Baleno, I've serious doubts on its crash worthiness ( I hope I'm proven wrong by the crash tests ). 850 odd kgs for such a big car at such a low price puts serious doubts.

But the Etios and Liva were similar. The weight difference between the Liva and Baleno is hardly 20 kilos.

The Etios has a latin NCAP rating of 4 stars and I'm sure the Baleno will eventually get a safety rating considering that it's a global model and not just for emerging countries. We need to give it some time till we see crash ratings.

We all know even with a 4 star latin NCAP rating, the Etios is one of the most unsafe in a crash. Many pictures in accident thread show Etios in mangles.

I think all this is unnecessary speculation and until we get some data points, the kerb weight is not the true indicator of safety. I would give them the benefit of doubt.

Plus this discussion has been pretty much beaten to death and I don't think there will be any conclusion.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

But the Etios and Liva were similar. The weight difference between the Liva and Baleno is hardly 20 kilos.

This is wrong for 2 reasons.

1. You compared the kerb weight of a diesel Baleno with that of the kerb weight of a petrol liva ( even then, it's 30 kgs and not 20 kgs. You compare diesel to diesel and it becomes close to 90 kgs.
2. Baleno occupies approximately 8% higher volume than the liva.

Originally Posted by Vid6639

We all know even with a 4 star latin NCAP rating, the Etios is one of the most unsafe in a crash. Many pictures in accident thread show Etios in mangles.

I think all this is unnecessary speculation and until we get some data points, the kerb weight is not the true indicator of safety. I would give them the benefit of doubt.

I'm curious as to how etios is in mangles make the car unsafe while Baleno in mangles combined with a low kerb weight makes the car eligible for benifit of doubt. And I've personally seen aleast 2 severe ly crashed etios, but the passenger cabin intact and all passengers safe.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by amalji

This is wrong for 2 reasons.

1. You compared the kerb weight of a diesel Baleno with that of the kerb weight of a petrol liva ( even then, it's 30 kgs and not 20 kgs. You compare diesel to diesel and it becomes close to 60 kgs.
2. Baleno occupies approximately 8% higher volume than the liva.

I wasn't being specific. I was saying that both are close. And the 60 kilos difference might not be directly related to safety enforcements but due to a heavier engine block itself.

I'm curious as to how etios is in mangles make the car unsafe while Baleno in mangles combined with a low kerb weight makes the car eligible for benifit of doubt. And I've personally seen aleast 2 severe ly crashed etios, but the passenger cabin intact and all passengers safe.

Actually I am saying if Etios can get 4 star latin NCAP rating being one of the flimsiest build quality then surely Baleno being a world product will not fare worse so we should give them the benefit of doubt.

In my opinion both cars are poorly build and if you are looking for safety, both should be at the bottom of the list.

We have all seen multiple Etios cabbies in mangles. Recent one in bangalore resulted in 3 people death on way to airport. Like that there is one every few months in news paper.

I don't think anyone but you is disputing the poor build quality of the Etios so I will not even try to justify.