[CLIX]

Originally Posted by Prodigy07

Hi CLIX,

Could you please share more details on 3M Acoustic dampers and body stiffeners?

How different are these from the usual Damping?

@ Prodigy07 : How different from others - I am not sure - first time for me.
Here is what it was all about.

Acoustic dampers looked like thick cottony/wooly mats. A layer under the door pads. You see it being installed in one of the pics. Covers the entire inside under the door inner pads/covers.

Body Stiffener : Had a close look - looked like a silvery metallic rigid strip stuck on a thick double sided sticking tape. These strips are stuck on the inside surface of your door. Looked like it essentially added some mass to the now infamous "light" sheet metal of the doors, from the inside. I did find that the tinny noise when you tap the exterior does change to a more respectable.... "yes this is metal" kind of noise.

Final result IMHO : The stock ICE sounds better. Overall car does sound better / quieter while driving.

[Kamal]

Our society parking lot has a 10 degree approx slope.
Today while taking out my Baleno I released the parking brake a little to get it clear of another parked car, without switching on the engine.
To my horror, the car gathered momentum & the foot brake felt totally hard & did not stop the car even when I jammed it on hard.
By the time I jerked up the hand brake, the Baleno had hit the parked car in front.
Fortunately, minor damage to the other car tho my car suffered a crack in the chrome trim, breakage of the number plate plastic backing & a depression in the bumper.
Question - Why didn't my car stop even when I stomped on the brake pedal hard?
I thought its mandatory for vehicles to have a fail safe mechanical linkage to brakes as a safety measure.
Or is it no longer mandatory?

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Kamal

without switching on the engine.

To my horror, the car gathered momentum & the foot brake felt totally hard & did not stop the car even when I jammed it on hard.

Question - Why didn't my car stop even when I stomped on the brake pedal hard?

Here's the answer Sir (highlighted in bold and italics),

With the engine OFF, the vacuum in the brake line was lost so no pressure in order to get sufficient pedal depression. It was rock hard so by the time your reflexes could jack up the handbrake lever, the car slipped backwards.

Pedal feel and pressure will become normal the moment you switch ON the engine as the vacuum is restored.

[Kamal]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Here's the answer Sir (highlighted in bold and italics),

With the engine OFF, the vacuum in the brake line was lost so no pressure in order to get sufficient pedal depression. It was rock hard so by the time your reflexes could jack up the handbrake lever, the car slipped backwards.

Pedal feel and pressure will become normal the moment you switch ON the engine as the vacuum is restored.

The power assist came on when I switched on & drove off.
I know about how the vacuum power assist works.
My question was why did the car not stop even when I pressed the brake pedal much harder than with brake assist.
Suppose the vacuum assist mechanism develops a fault while one is driving.
The car should have brakes even if you have to press the pedal much harder, isn't it?
That safety feature is mandatory, or used to be when power brakes/steering first came in.
Isn't it mandatory now, or is there a fault in my car is my question.

[jetsetgo08]

Originally Posted by Kamal

Today while taking out my Baleno I released the parking brake a little to get it clear of another parked car, without switching on the engine.
To my horror, the car gathered momentum & the foot brake felt totally hard & did not stop the car even when I jammed it on hard.

Even I experienced a similar incident long ago when we upgraded from a maruti 800 to an Alto, only to realize that the Alto was equipped with booster brakes unlike the old 800. However, there were no damages in my case.

Most cars are equipped with booster brakes which a4anurag technically explained.

Booster brakes are different from Brake assist which work in conjunction with ABS, which requires intelligence(micro-controller). In simple terms, the ABS with EBD,Brake assist technically would not work if the engine is OFF. However, the booster brakes would still work when the engine is ON even if the ABS module conked off.

P.S.:Please correct me if I am wrong.

[dheepak10]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

Here's the answer Sir (highlighted in bold and italics),

With the engine OFF, the vacuum in the brake line was lost so no pressure in order to get sufficient pedal depression. It was rock hard so by the time your reflexes could jack up the handbrake lever, the car slipped backwards.

Pedal feel and pressure will become normal the moment you switch ON the engine as the vacuum is restored.

Yes, this is correct. Almost all cars have the same mechanism. My 5.5 year old A-Star had the same as well.

Even I was in a same situation as mentioned by Mr.Kamal and the handbrakes came to help.

With the engine off, steering is locked and the brakes are jammed - so no shortcuts; the car has to be turned on and the necessary maneuver needs to be made.

[CLIX]

Originally Posted by Kamal

.......
Today while taking out my Baleno I released the parking brake a little to get it clear of another parked car, without switching on the engine.
To my horror, the car gathered momentum & the foot brake felt totally hard & did not stop the car even when I jammed it on hard..........
Or is it no longer mandatory?

Sir : In almost all modern cars today. When the engine is not running the Brakes AND the Steering are not expected to work. Yes your point on the failsafe linkage would be a great feature, but am not sure that's mandatory.

[Kamal]

Originally Posted by CLIX

Sir : In almost all modern cars today. When the engine is not running the Brakes AND the Steering are not expected to work. Yes your point on the failsafe linkage would be a great feature, but am not sure that's mandatory.

Just checked with the Rana Motors( which service the Baleno ) Works Manger & a MASS friend.
The brakes are indeed supposed to work as also the steering with the engine off, but the driver will have to step very hard on the brakes & the steering will become appreciably harder.
I can confirm that it did in my Esteem.
Steering gets locked only when the key is removed from the ignition, isn't it?
I'm going to verify whether the brakes & steering indeed work with the engine off & the vacuum in the brake assist depleted on a safe, empty slope.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by Kamal

Steering gets locked only when the key is removed from the ignition, isn't it?

I'm going to verify whether the brakes & steering indeed work with the engine off & the vacuum in the brake assist depleted on a safe, empty slope.

Yes Sir. Steering wheel ONLY gets locked once the key is OFF the ignition hole and is turned either side by more than half a turn.

[bimbrahw]

Just completed 500 kms and the first free service in my Baleno CVT Zeta Premium Silver. Just can't have enough of driving this wonderful package. In fact love driving it more than my wife's 3 month old Wagon R AGS Vxi. Surprisingly the steering is much lighter in the Baleno (though both are supposed to be EPS ?), the creep feature in the CVT is great as compared to the AGS, the Wagon R though gives a much more commanding view of the road with the high and upright seating as compared to the low slung seating of the Baleno which again is not as low as the old Esteem which used to give one a feeling of sitting in a well, the MID shows the average fuel economy as 9 kmpl which I am expecting to improve (how to reset the calculation here ?), absolutely no niggles so far and am very happy with the package. Buying a Baleno after selling off my 4 years 40000 kms old SX4 Zdi was a tough decision and yes I feel the SX4 running on Michelin Primacy LC rubber and its suspension was much better on broken roads than the Baleno. I have been following the discussion on 3m acoustic dampers but not yet compelled to get it done. Another grudge is the CVT not being available in top end Alpha trim. Have got MGA DRL's fixed each next to the front number plate on my Wagon R but in a fix if I should get it done on the Baleno (with it having much more electrical gizmos than the WR - automatic headlamps feature, etc) though the Maruti dealer accessories guy says he fix the MGA DRL's without any affect on the warranty (?).

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by bimbrahw

Have got MGA DRL's fixed each next to the front number plate on my Wagon R

If you don't mind, can you please post some images of the DRL and cost of the DRL too? Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by bimbrahw

The Maruti dealer accessories guy says he fix the MGA DRL's without any affect on the warranty (?).

Since it is Maruti who is doing the install, don't be worried regarding it. Just go ahead.

You'll have the bill of the install and claiming warranty would be piece of cake.

[bimbrahw]

Originally Posted by a4anurag

If you don't mind, can you please post some images of the DRL and cost of the DRL too?

You'll have the bill of the install and claiming warranty would be piece of cake.

Sorry Anurag, the app says I do not have the permission to post the pics. Tried doing it a couple of times with the same security error response from the app. Think they cost me around Rs.3000 from the dealer MGA counter.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by Kamal

Just checked with the Rana Motors( which service the Baleno ) Works Manger & a MASS friend.
The brakes are indeed supposed to work as also the steering with the engine off, but the driver will have to step very hard on the brakes & the steering will become appreciably harder...

I'm going to verify whether the brakes & steering indeed work with the engine off & the vacuum in the brake assist depleted on a safe, empty slope.

I have been in such a situation in a Wagon R. The steering will be rock hard and takes HUGE effort to turn and the brake pedals will progressively reduce the play resulting in a jammed pedal with no movement after repeat slamming. The only solution here is the hand brake!

The user manual specifically lists that the car needs to be running for both these to work fine. I suggest you not to try it because it's NOT going to fetch you the expected output suggested by the MA$$ guys - I have been in that situation, so I suggest please avoid your experimentation on this.

[farooq817]

Originally Posted by Kamal

To my horror, the car gathered momentum & the foot brake felt totally hard & did not stop the car even when I jammed it on hard.
By the time I jerked up the hand brake, the Baleno had hit the parked car in front.

Totally relate able sir. And this happened on the same day you mentioned in your post. I was driving down a mall parking lot with the car in second gear (which I did not realize). Just before the ticket counter, I stopped since there were 2 cars in front of me. The cars in front moved and as I moved my leg from the clutch, the car jerked and switched off. I did not try to start the car (which is the general tendency to do) and pulled the handbrake and the car came to a screeching halt. Thankfully, no damage done and a couple of lessons learnt.
1. Always keep a bit of distance from the car in front in the parking lots.
2. Make sure you are in the first gear in such parking lots. Because of the slope it might feel that the car is comfortable in the second gear but scenario like these can be avoided.

Coming to your query, the brakes just wont work in case the engine is switched off. The steering wont lock itself but will be extremely hard to turn.

[Prodigy07]

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...wer-horns.html

So, based on the above post on whether a relay is required or not for an aftermarket horn, I finally took plunge and got Minda trumpets installed without relay on my Baleno