re: Tata Tiago : Official Review Guys,
(kaviprem, carbhaari, girishv, prakash_ajp, Theyota, Pferdestarke and the others who posted - sorry for not multi-quoting - the long quotes could risk an infarction)
You will sprain your fingers typing about this but this will not change.
Go have a look at the Bolt thread - similar discussion ran into 4 pages. With so many quotes and multi-quotes and references from other threads.
Entire discussion was categorically shut down.
Similar discussion on the Nano thread.
Heck - a full dedicated thread on Tata and it's reliability - 14 pages long, with so many actual owners coming forth and significant conclusive discussions done ... still no change in the 'cons' listed. Engine Reliability
So test mules have covered 2 lakh + kms on Indian roads (even witnessed a bad accident and lived to tell the tale) - but these get no mention, but new Honda engines (not tested in India that extensively and built from scratch too) - get no such comment or even a fine print in the cons section.
(Safe to assume that it is inherently believed that Indian engineers and technology can never match Japanese and their counterparts - sad!) [side note - Indian engineers created designs that lead to a whooping 37 patents during the creation of the Nano and it's engine - just FYI - to those who did not question NEW Japanese (both Honda & Suzuki) engines] But the Japanese engines which were not extensively tested on Indian roads - had their air intake placed too low for comfort and many Brio owners suffered the brunt of this design flaw - thread available on Team BHP itself.
But hey, that's Honda - so that's allowed.
Honda, Hyundai, Toyota, Ford - everyone recalls cars because of flaws. Till date not happened with Tata. But again, that doesn't account for anything. (Integrity? Consistency? Commitment to the Indian consumer?) Indian Consumer & sales figures
Inconsistent gaps and shut lines with a naked boot and dangling wires in a Honda City - and it will be a Best Seller. But the same won't apply if it's a Tata.
Why - broad Indian product mentality. Discerning few like us on Team BHP can keep writing all we want, but sales figures still don't budge. We can vote Zest to be a COTY - who knows maybe even the Zica might be a COTY, or the upcoming 'Osprey' - but the stigma will not be taken away from the 'TATA' brand that easily. There's no denying, TATA themselves put themselves in this position. But such words and statements are definitely not helping their STRONG efforts or correcting their mistake. Which - FRANKLY - spells GOOD NEWS for consumers, whether you buy a Tata product or not !
Like any boxing match, the boxers suffer the blows - but the audience is always entertained. When TATA tries this hard to up it's game - it only ensures that others don't get complacent and bring in newer products, pay closer attention to the Indian consumers (US! - for crying out loud) and offer more bang for our buck! If anything, we should only be cheering them more and more to try and perform better and better. No matter what their sales figures (trying to portray a purely selfish narrow minded perspective here) - WE STILL WIN ... (here We = Indian consumers and not the Indian companies or India as a nation) Sub-Par sales & service or Gamble ?
But yes, one thing that even I would protest is the use of the word 'SUB-PAR' in the service category. This line was earlier listed as a 'GAMBLE' - which was still acceptable.
Going by the Nano GenX thread, Zest thread and the Bolt thread - where the owners have listed out their respective experiences pan India on Team BHP - one would be inclined to change add a "seems to be improving" next to the GAMBLE bit (even if one is a cynic) - but definitely it CANNOT be deteriorated further to 'SUB-PAR'.
Sub-par is when I pay a higher than market price for a car from a GLOBALLY established, age old, highly reputed premium brand like Skoda and VW and get treated as bad as some distinguished BHPians have. THAT becomes 'SUB PAR'.
When you have a home grown brand, relatively young in the market, constantly improving at every level - and you don't have to go by their marketing propoganda (non-existent, they don't blow trumpets - everyone knows that) - you go by the ACTUAL owners talking on this very forum - definitely it can't be listed as sub-par. MORE SO - when you are THE one & only TEAM BHP. Where each and every word counts. Where your language, your syntax get the same attention to the detail as the cars you review. When you have this strong a reader base and fan base, definitely the responsibility of using the right words increases.
In the last 1 year (from the Zest and the Bolt) - where the Cons included the 'GAMBLE' line - we do not have a bulk of incidences reported that warrant the use of the word 'SUB-PAR'. In the few incidences reported of minor dissatisfaction, senior management has stepped in and ensured that things have been sorted in the customer's favour. Where as at the same time senior management has not cared two hoots about customers from Renault, Hyundai, VW & Skoda (to name a few threads I read on Team BHP - off hand).
One more thing, I know MARKETING is also part of sales. TATA has been poor at marketing. Definitely. But they have not used under-hand marketing, or false media reports - they have kept trying something new - Test Drive key for Zest in newspaper, Card swipe for Bolt, Online selling of Nano, 7 senses and Zica perfumes and chocolates - most of it didn't hit well. But sales is NOT just about Marketing, right? Or is it?
Now I very strongly agree to those who say that it depends dealer to dealer - and so many contrasting reports of different dealers of the same brand are found on Team BHP (only a few shine through - be it Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, Tata, Honda or Hyundai)
I know a Team BHPian who felt so 'ill treated' in the PREMIUM NEXA - that he cancelled his booking!
Given their sales records, has TATA really managed to have that many NEW DEALERS in the last one year? I don't think so.
So what have they done, tightened the screws on all of them and TRY to improve the experience at the existing ones. If anything they have only opened up more 'Concorde' sales & service outlets. So how did the 'Gamble' become 'Sub-par' ?
Again, I am not pushing to say - that change the GAMBLE to WOW - no, that is not the case yet. Being realistic, they still have some work to do there. Just because I get awesome service from Tata Motors at Concorde, Worli - doesn't necessarily mean EVERYONE does. (by the way, has any one read about the new feedback system a Nano user has posted on the Nano thread - real nice move by Tata). So, it definitely is not fair to say EXCELLENT service yet, you can stick to Gamble if you wish - but there definitely isn't any justification to demoting that Gamble to 'SUB PAR' (even if you consider the VFM factor of the price of the car upfront, the spares, the AMC (!) )
There's a difference. It was a Gamble, it may still be a Gamble. But it has not deteriorated to 'sub-par'. S2!!! asked to share good experiences, there are PLENTY being shared recently on the Zest, Nano GenX, Bolt & even old Manza thread. Clarification
I would have mentioned this in my earlier posts, but I had a deja vu of the Bolt thread almost a year ago. And thought it would be futile. Plus, since no one was mentioning it - I thought maybe I am the only one who things this is wrong. Looking at the strong support and more so mentions from people having experienced Maruti, Hyundai, Honda - first hand (NON-TATA fan boys) - I think it is just fair then that this be brought to the notice of TEAM BHP - ONCE AGAIN - all in the spirit of 2 things:
1. To ensure that the forum continues it's reputation of being fair and unbiased (and keep cheering - as mentioned above)
2. To ensure that we as a community don't become unpatriotic by singling out a home grown manufacturer and look down upon homeland talent (reference to the engineers mentioned above)
P.S. - Disclaimer - as mentioned by me on few other threads, this time, after turning down the Nano GenX - I was genuinely considering the Hyundai Grand i10 (heck, even the i20) - but decided to wait it out for the Kite. So, in all fairness, I DID look beyond a Tata, and this post should not be considered biased.
P.P.S. - If at the end of all this - TATA & Mayank Pareek gauge the market wrong and price the Zica wrongly - they they deserve to get what's coming - and I will NOT be blindly buying the Zica - just because it is Tata or just because I liked the looks. I will go back to drawing board and re-evaluate all the options at hand from scratch (which might still end up being Grand i10 or the Nano GenX - but who knows what else will launch till then)
Last edited by Dr.Suraj : 14th January 2016 at 01:11.
Reason: To try and keep the paragraph etc. upto the high standards that this forum adheres to.
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