[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by rovingeye

Why that's very insightful. Thanks! And yes, my comment was based on Youtube reviews. My obvious next step will be to get test drives for both the Endy and Tfort. I'll update when I get to it.

That's exactly what you should do.
I have been asked many times by friends and known people about my choice and the simple answer I gave was to test drive both and see the difference. I never mentioned my experience with the 3.2 Endy.

The Endeavour is miles apart and abroad it is compared to the Toyota Land Cruiser as it lies in that segment.

The bad name that Ford created is going to take time to get sorted. However things are far better now and service centers want to give you the service. The downside here what I see with my experience, is the lack of knowledge or training on behalf of some staff.

[Vikram_agg]

Going by the comments here, I believe, Endeavour is the clear choice. the equipment list and the panoramic sun roof are a big draw. All the bells and whistles look and sound quite good but are a complete nuisance to maintain, I also own a 2013 Q7, the moment a warning light goes on, I dread taking it to the shop, firstly because it requires a lot of time and secondly, authorized service centers always want to take you for a ride.

Anyway, according to the times and choice of cars, I think one can't get away from all this technology.

I have access to both Fortuner and Endeavour for extensive test drives as close friends own them but one owns a manual 4x2 Fortuner and the other one owns a 3.2 4x4 AT Endy.

My confusion arose because of the old ford cars and the bad name they have created for the brand.

I will test drive both of them soon and will share my experience here.

[vigneshkumar31]

Originally Posted by Vikram_agg

Hi,
I need some serious advice, I have been using a Fortuner for the last 8 years and have driven it for more than 1.5lac kms. Now I am in the market for an upgrade and my luck that an upgraded budget will also get me a Fortuner or an Endeavour. Really like the Endeavour but will it last 8+ years, trouble free?

I have been obsessing over the D2 premium SUVs segment and closely following it, with an aim to reassure myself of the riskiest and biggest financial decision of my salaried life in plonking a ton of money on one of these. The Endeavour is my pick of the lot, for my requirements. I have definitively dissected the SUVs on offer looking at them through my personal lens of requirements and decided that

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

Either way, I believe the car I pick next would be the last car I'm driving into the impending EV sunset few years from now, and the Ford Endeavour is my pick of the lot.

Having said that, I have pondered myself, and do understand the Fortuner's pull. The new endeavour is really that good, but I have similar concerns as yourself, for a longer period of ownership. The warranty periods that the endeavour currently offers simply does not invest and share the same confidence that Im willing to rest on Ford. If Ford is really that sure of the product and the complete electronics suite, I ask myself, why not at least give an option to buy an extended warranty well beyond the 4 year honeymoon period? (which by the way in 2019, none of the Endeavours sold till now have crossed since sales started in 2016 obviously)

This is exactly the reason where the Fortuner trumps. And as a longtime fortuner owner yourself, you are better testament/judge than me, of the long time fuss free ownership cost/experience that comes with this bestseller. And that ensemble experience over 7-8 years puts the fortuner on a higher price pedestal and holds its value for resale at that far point. The fortuner doesn't sell because of its high resale. It sells and hence, it has high resale.

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

That's a good question. No one has owned one for so long as the new Endeavour was launched in India only in 2016.

The future of the new Endeavour is good in India until they launch the newer engines. Once these come to India, the older engines may loose charm. However that does not negate the fact that the new endeavour is a beast and a robust piece of machine.

The only downside that I feel, is the the numerous sensors, fuses and electronic stuff fitted, some of which are capable of stopping the engine. But having said that, all newer cars, even 5 lakh cars are loaded with sensors etc. because that's the future.

Originally Posted by Vikram_agg

l also believed the same but according to some online websites, 3 year old Endeavours are significantly worth more than 3 year old Fortuner's. The story might be different when it comes to much older cars like mine.

Also, compared the sales figures of the two, its almost 4:1. So there has to be something that is going for Toyota and lacking in the Endeavour. is it?

The resale market for the new generation endeavour and fortuner is still not old enough for us to actually compare how these vehicles hold value over longer periods. In other words the cars (mostly at least) which are on offer now in preloved market are probably within the initial standard warranty/extended warranty. The superb kit, value and the premium experience that the ford offers in the endeavour is definitely a good credit and the market has reflected that with relatively better sales than the old gen Endeavour. (In D2 premium SUVs for ford to do half of fortuner's numbers consistently might not be reason to celebrate, but is no mere stroke of luck either.)

You are right about older models where the fortuner holds its value much better than the endeavour as is evident from the listings. I have been looking at pre owned vehicles also, in the same segment, to make my aforesaid financial decision somewhat less of an adventure.

Though completely not accurate for a ball park analysis I ve been tracking the used car valuation tool by droom and here's how the average used car price stacks up for both against the age of the car:-

The current seller owners believe that the new gen endeavour is worth second hand as much as the new generation fortuner and all listings reflect that, where the asking price is quite steep. Understandable because again the cars are relatively new and within warranty probably.

Older models the fortuner wins, and the older you go, the gap widens in the valuation tool and the listings also concur with this observation.

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

The Endeavour is miles apart and abroad it is compared to the Toyota Land Cruiser as it lies in that segment.

In this same thread much earlier , I have compared the Ford's global perspective and where it slots in the fortuner prado paradigm, and yes, its true that the everest actually locks horns with the higher prado segment.Bold.Ambitious. But true.

There's a band of overlap between the fortuner and prado through the variants spectrum of everest, as you can see from the chart depending on the trim you choose. It doesn't dethrone the toyota in sales there, however.

Coming to India, the ford does retain a whole large chunk of the international kit and except some radar tech, the package has not skimped on much. For that, the price point here is aggressive and hence we have unanimously agreed that the big ford is a value-luxury proposition in the segment. For the aggressive pricing, I wouldn't solely give credit to ford alone, for it's the Fortuner that has kept the ford's price in check. The fortuner is the segment and defines the segment.

The apparent climb down in fighting in a lower segment, is also market forced for the company, because there is simply not enough meat in the prado segment in India for the ford to plonk a new product and try to fight it out for a extremely low volume, high profit win. The spoils of war are much more in the meaty D2 SUV segment and hence ford had to fight here with the fortuner.

So once it's come here and has swapped the name to Endeavour, I have decided to forget its overseas prado ambitions and consider it a fortuner rival and that's exactly what it is- a worthy contender to the fortuner throne.

Toyota's kit or rather the lack of it compared to the endeavour, is what pushes many like myself towards the awesome Ford. But to ask toyota to match the kit, is missing the point in my opinion. The way toyota researches, designs and builds its vehicles is the reason for that. Toyota spends a long time to getting things right and once its there plonked in the car, the company does show high inertia to change and introduce new and exciting tech into the car, without making sure its absolutely reliable.It's this slow and sure product development that makes it miss much of the optics but rewards instead with long reliable lifecycles and hence high resales.

As many of the bhpians have replied, the proof of the pudding is in the test drive. And what suits your taste best.

[Vikram_agg]

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

I have been obsessing over the D2 premium SUVs segment and closely following it, with an aim to reassure myself of the riskiest and biggest financial decision of my salaried life in plonking a ton of money on one of these. The Endeavour is my pick of the lot, for my requirements.
.
.
.

As many of the bhpians have replied, the proof of the pudding is in the test drive. And what suits your taste best.

I am sorry but this post has confused me even more. You have mentioned all my apprehensions with Ford without providing a solution, I completely agree with you on the test drive part but a test drive won't provide me with a picture of long term effects on the car. Toyota's bullet proof reliability is what has kept me with the brand and on my 3rd Toyota but that itch of trying something new is creeping up strongly.

A gamble of 40 lacs is something I am not willing to take. Took one in a lower segment with the Laura L&K in 2008 and by 2013 the car was ready to fall to pieces. the TPMS was acting up, the sun roof used to leak in the rains and in the 3rd year, the ac required a complete change. The engine was a hoot to drive but in Delhi's unrelenting summers, having a good engine is on nobody's wish list.

At this time, there is no way of knowing about long term ownership experiences as both cars are still in warranty periods. I think at the end of it all, Toyota's reliability will be too hard to move away from.

[vigneshkumar31]

Originally Posted by Vikram_agg

I think at the end of it all, Toyota's reliability will be too hard to move away from.

And that is why toyota sells!...and resells.

Sorry vikram, i didn't mean to confuse you. I was rather sharing your same dilemma and presented my own apprehensions about the way to go: trusting ford? or trusted fortuner? The bottom line for me today is if I really understand and am convinced with the value that the ford packs in its biggest offering, then Im willing to gamble with unknown factor of long term reliability for a fresher, more premium and more luxurious driving experience. Im convinced that its tremendous value and the 3.2 is a hoot!

On the other side if one breeds a lower risk appetite and values fuss free ownership and proven long term reliability over more luxury, fortuner is the way to go.

[krishsreedharan]

I have been reading through the last few posts on the conundrums faced while deciding on which SUV to pick up and hence I though I will jump in with my buying experiences too.

I have always been a sucker for big displacement engines - my previous cars being a 1.8L Contessa Classic, a 2 L Hyundai Elantra Diesel, a 2.4 L Sonata, a 1.8L Honda Civic and a 2.4 L Accord. I did a brief stint of about 8 years in SG wherein I had no car.

Got back to India in 2015 and at that point, for the budget I had, all I could muster was a 1.5 Litre Honda City with a CVT. After the Civic experience, the build quality of the City left much to be desired and I sold the car in May 2016.

I suppose as one grows older, some people get a little "twisted" in the head - or at least, that's what happened in my case. I decided that rather than outright speed, I needed a vehicle that could go anywhere anytime and so I had to have an SUV with an Automatic gearbox and 4 wheel drive with a low ratio transfer case.

Given these must-haves, the contenders were the T-Fort, the Endeavour and the Scorpio S10 4x4 AT (which was manufactured against order only). Incidentally, it was at this time that the new Endeavour was launched and I had read extensively about it and I did desire it a lot. The T-Fort was out of the running since in my mind, it was a "Politician's horse". So the contenders were the Endeavour and the Scorpio.

I test drove the Endeavour and as always, the 3.2 L Diesel had me. But the disappointment was that it was out of my budget at that time and so, settled for placing an order for a White Scorpio S10 4x4 AT. Got the beast in July 2016 and thought the itch was done.

But come March 2018, casually visited the Ford showroom on a Sunday to check out the Endeavour and within a week, found myself putting down the money on a Black beast. Took delivery of the beast on the 9th of April and as on date, it has completed 34,200+ kms. The Scorpio, incidentally, has covered 57k+ now.

Absolutely over the moon with both the trucks - oh, and both of them are remapped. I don't think I am going to look at any other vehicle for a long time to come. So far, I have not had any issues with either vehicle. They are taken to the dealer for service at the appropriate times and get taken care of very well.

My beasts about a month after I got the Endeavour:



Keeping in mind the thread of discussion prior to this post, I would like to emphasize that for me, the primary decider was how much enjoyment and satisfaction I would get out of driving both my trucks. Never once did I ever think about resale value - but then, that's me.

Sorry for the long rambling post.

Mod Note: Please do NOT use acronyms (e.g. ANHC, T-Fort, ANHV) when referring to cars. You are ONLY permitted to use the full Make & Model name for cars. This will make our content useful, searchable & easy-to-understand for experts & newbies alike.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

That's exactly what you should do.

The Endeavour is miles apart and abroad it is compared to the Toyota Land Cruiser as it lies in that segment.

It is compared to the land cruiser Prado, which is a whole other model different from the mighty land cruiser. They don't really share much other than the name and some of the offroad tech in the top variants. Toyota wanted to position the Prado as the land cruiser's cheaper little brother and profit off the name's reputation. Think about it as the Range Rover vs the Range Rover Sport. Except the Prado is not even available with a V8 unless you go for the Lexus GX version.

[ruzbehxyz]

Installed a BMC filter in the Endeavour and boy the SUV has become smoother. Slight increase in power but no difference in mileage.
The smoothness tempts you to accelerate harder. Did a Mumbai - Goa drive via Chorla and got 10.2 kmpl. (3.2 litre).

[roby_dk]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

Installed a BMC filter in the Endeavour and boy the SUV has become smoother. Slight increase in power but no difference in mileage.
The smoothness tempts you to accelerate harder. Did a Mumbai - Goa drive via Chorla and got 10.2 kmpl. (3.2 litre).

Does this require any modifications or it is having the same specs like stock filter. Please share link in case you purchased this online.

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by roby_dk

Does this require any modifications or it is having the same specs like stock filter. Please share link in case you purchased this online.

Same specs as stock filter. No modifications required. You can also do it yourself as it's easy. I took the filter to a local mechanic and saw how he did it. It's pretty simple.
I purchased it through a friend. It was shipped from Bangalore. Cost = Rs. 7600.

[rovingeye]

Hi guys, I was (still am) seriously contemplating buying the Endy 3.2. It doesn't come cheap and frankly speaking, I'd be stretching my budget quite a bit to purchase it. However, one thing is bothering me a bit and that's the negative feedback about the car's reliability on various websites outside of TBhp. I'm reading reviews from owners who have been experiencing various not so minor problems with their Endys within 1-12 months of purchase.

Reading these, I'm now in two minds. It's one thing to bite the bullet and buy the car of your dreams by overspending. But, I'd hate to get into a situation where I'm having to run to the service centre every now and then with an expensive vehicle.

Following are some of the reviews that are planting the seeds of doubt in my mind. I'm not sure what to make of these, but my head is surely starting to act up and say - don't buy this car.

Here's a report (Ford Endeavour: Stalling & random acceleration issue) from one of our own members.

Problem report 2.

Problem report 3.

Problem report 4.

Problem report 5.

Problem report 6.

Problem report 7.

Problem report 8.

Problem report 9.

Problem report 10.

Couple from Facebook:

[SCORPION]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

Same specs as stock filter. No modifications required. You can also do it yourself as it's easy.

I checked on line and found a BMC air filter for the Endeavour. From the photographs on line, it looks like an oil trap filter similar to K&N. I couldn't find the full specifications on that site. Can you please confirm if the one you have installed is an oil based one or is it some other type?

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by SCORPION

I checked on line and found a BMC air filter for the Endeavour. From the photographs on line, it looks like an oil trap filter similar to K&N. I couldn't find the full specifications on that site. Can you please confirm if the one you have installed is an oil based one or is it some other type?

There is only one type of the BMC filter in stock size.

Please check this link.

https://autocrank.in/products/bmc-ai...-3-2-e74m2v3pj

[vigneshkumar31]

Ford increases ex showroom price by 1k.(for top variant 3.2 4x4 AT Titanium)
Ex showroom Delhi 32.97 in March 19. April 19 stands at 32.98.

I was expecting some silent price increase because there was no significant increase during the facelift in Feb 19. Let's wait and watch.

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31

Ford increases ex showroom price by 1k.(for top variant 3.2 4x4 AT Titanium)
Ex showroom Delhi 32.97 in March 19. April 19 stands at 32.98.

I was expecting some silent price increase because there was no significant increase during the facelift in Feb 19. Let's wait and watch.

When you are looking at 32 lakhs ex.showroom and 39 lakhs on road, Rs. 1000 does not matter. This difference is probably because of change in logistics or so. Its not an increase. An increase for this segment will in the range of 25k + or probably 50k +.