[Czarcarsm]

Originally Posted by mayjay

Don't know about accuracy of this, but apparently the Ford Kuga is on its way to India.

It will be offered with the same 2.2 engine. Ford is trying to make room for it, by removing Trend.

Again this could be speculation so please take it with the necessary pinch of salt.

- Ford Kuga is a 2018 launch. Too far out for Ford to start cutting Trend models.
- Also Kuga is a 5 seater and currently has a 2.0 lt engine in other markets. Don't expect it to have 2.2 for India specific. It's very similar to Ford Escape already in NA market. So again it's not cutting into Trend both in seats and Engine. Very different market segment.
- It is to be placed between Ecosport and Endy. So there has to be sufficient gap from top end of Eco and bottom Trend of Endy. But possible slight overlap. Expect Trend prices to go up to maintain this gap/spread.
- Current Trend shortage may be passé. Ford India marketing will never be known for their skills. It's just Ford India being Ford India. Give them some time.

[sunishsamuel]

One of my friend is wanting an advice from me to choose between the Fortuner vs Endeavour. He is looking for the top end variant in both the brands. Obviously the discussion was towards the brand reputation, reliability, resale and service cost of the cars. I was looking online for some comparison and came across this.

Fortuner service costs here

P.S:- The new Fortuner got a short service interval of 5000kms so at a minimum if you change oil, then it will cost you Rs. 8579 (approximately) Break up:

synthetic engine oil - 5,996
Oil Filter - 700
service charge - 1,883

If you chose mineral oil the cost will be Rs. ~2800 so the cost per service will be around Rs. 5383. Eventually for every 10000 kms you will need to spend at least Rs. 10766.

Endeavour service costs here

Based on the site info, Ford seems cheaper in terms of the overall service cost.

Further, cost of parts replacement like Front headlights are comparable. Toyota is charging ~38000 for one headlight assembly while Ford charges ~41000.

Of course, the calculations do not factor battery, damages or tyres. Is there any way we can get an accurate comparison so that it will help take a decision on which car to buy ?

[MAS]

Originally Posted by sunishsamuel

One of my friend is wanting an advice from me to choose between the Fortuner vs Endeavour. He is looking for the top end variant in both the brands. Obviously the discussion was towards the brand reputation, reliability, resale and service cost of the cars. I was looking online for some comparison and came across this.

Fortuner service costs here

P.S:- The new Fortuner got a short service interval of 5000kms so at a minimum if you change oil, then it will cost you Rs. 8579 (approximately) Break up:

synthetic engine oil - 5,996
Oil Filter - 700
service charge - 1,883

If you chose mineral oil the cost will be Rs. ~2800 so the cost per service will be around Rs. 5383. Eventually for every 10000 kms you will need to spend at least Rs. 10766.

Endeavour service costs here

Based on the site info, Ford seems cheaper in terms of the overall service cost.

Further, cost of parts replacement like Front headlights are comparable. Toyota is charging ~38000 for one headlight assembly while Ford charges ~41000.

Of course, the calculations do not factor battery, damages or tyres. Is there any way we can get an accurate comparison so that it will help take a decision on which car to buy ?

Though the service interval of the New Fortuner is 5000 kms, oil changes are done only every 10,000 kms. Hence, your calculations requires to be tweaked.

Service costs of Ford have come down in the last couple of years. If the Endeavour is taken for normal periodic service, it costs nothing. My previous generation Endeavour was serviced once a year (as running was not much) and it would cost me around Rs. 5000 only. Godforsaken, if any part is required to be changed, the service cost sky rockets. The previous generation Endeavour even though reliable, was pretty expensive to maintain as something or the other always required my attention.

[ecosport rules]

Originally Posted by sunishsamuel

One of my friend is wanting an advice from me to choose between the Fortuner vs Endeavour. He is looking for the top end variant in both the brands. Obviously the discussion was towards the brand reputation, reliability, resale and service cost of the cars. I was looking online for some comparison and came across this.

Fortuner service costs here

P.S:- The new Fortuner got a short service interval of 5000kms so at a minimum if you change oil, then it will cost you Rs. 8579 (approximately) Break up:

synthetic engine oil - 5,996
Oil Filter - 700
service charge - 1,883

If you chose mineral oil the cost will be Rs. ~2800 so the cost per service will be around Rs. 5383. Eventually for every 10000 kms you will need to spend at least Rs. 10766.

Endeavour service costs here

Based on the site info, Ford seems cheaper in terms of the overall service cost.

Further, cost of parts replacement like Front headlights are comparable. Toyota is charging ~38000 for one headlight assembly while Ford charges ~41000.

Of course, the calculations do not factor battery, damages or tyres. Is there any way we can get an accurate comparison so that it will help take a decision on which car to buy ?

Originally Posted by MAS

Though the service interval of the New Fortuner is 5000 kms, oil changes are done only every 10,000 kms. Hence, your calculations requires to be tweaked.

Service costs of Ford have come down in the last couple of years. If the Endeavour is taken for normal periodic service, it costs nothing. My previous generation Endeavour was serviced once a year (as running was not much) and it would cost me around Rs. 5000 only. Godforsaken, if any part is required to be changed, the service cost sky rockets. The previous generation Endeavour even though reliable, was pretty expensive to maintain as something or the other always required my attention.

Overall cost of ownership will be higher in Endeavour than the Fortuner not because of the periodic service costs but due to higher rate of failure in Ford.(as MAS pointed out)

For example the turbocharger for the 3.2 litre is prone to failure and costs around 1.5 lakhs(Google problems with 3.2)
To top it of, Ford is giving only 3 years warranty (non extendable) whereas Toyota is offering 7 years.

-Oil change intervals are same for both.(10000kms)
-customer service is good with both brands.
-Once in 5000kms check up service in Toyota is only to ensure cash flow to the dealer (vehicle doesn't need it)-I am glad Ford thinks otherwise.
-Cost of one bi beam led light is 90000 for the Fortuner vs 36000 for the Endeavour.
-Air filter replacement is 5 to 6 times more expensive in the Fortuner as the whole assembly needs to be replaced (yet to get a confirmation on this, dealer doesn't have clarity)


Apart from all other factors your friend should take an extended test drive of both vehicles that too back to back on the same terrain and listen to his heart.

All said and done both products are excellent, one has to choose what's fits him.
I am glad that Fortuner finally has a tough contender to keep Toyota grounded

Best wishes

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by ecosport rules

-Air filter replacement is 5 to 6 times more expensive in the Fortuner as the whole assembly needs to be replaced (yet to get a confirmation on this, dealer doesn't have clarity)

Only the filter element needs changing, like normally done in vehicles. Filter element is same for Crysta and Fortuner. Replacement highflow filters also available.

[ecosport rules]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Only the filter element needs changing, like normally done in vehicles. Filter element is same for Crysta and Fortuner. Replacement highflow filters also available.

That's good to know
Can you share the cost of the airfilter for the current Fortuner/innova ?

[Deepu Sharma]

Has anyone upgraded the headlight bulbs to philips extreme vision or Osram nightbreaker on the trend models . kindly share the bulb specification for both high and low beams and how are the results. looking forward to the swap shortly. Did upgrade my tyres the very first day to geolanders OE size itself with a difference of 26k for all 4 wheels in exchange and trust me friends it is much needed for the beast.

[Turbanator]

Has anyone upgraded the headlight bulbs to philips extreme vision or Osram nightbreaker on the trend models

Yes, I have got HID on Low-Beam, prefer Osram as there is a lot of duplicity in Philips. For High Beam, you can either go for LED ( China ) or to white Osram. Details are in this thread

[Sankar]

3.2 Duratorq has a variable capacity oil pump and there is a particular thing the owner or those who service this engine know.

When doing an oil change do NOT wait for more than 10 minutes to completely drain all that old oil and to fill fresh oil in the engine. If the oil drains out from the pump the pump may not self prime and the oil pressure will be low.

As enthusiasts some times we go the extra mile and do things like wait for an eternity for all that old oil to drain out before filling up with fresh oil. I know people who do that and I have done that too. Sometimes its best to be quick.

It’s true about the Ford Ranger and Mazda BT50 oil pump/prime issue you described above. Seems stupid to me - and every independent mechanic I've spoke to as well - but I'm sure the designers had their reasons. The benefit is that the pump varies the oil delivery in response to RPM - in other words it's a variable-flow pump rather than fixed flow. Presumably this optimises the oil delivery across a range of operating revs minimises the fuel consumption related to driving the pump - additional oil flow doesn't have to be bled off through a relief valve. Whether this trade-off is reasonable in practise is something I don't know. Apparently the pump is chain-driven off the engine - which seems kind of quaint to me, if efficiency was the ultimate goal.

I'm pretty sure the dealerships servicing those vehicles simply manage to get the new oil back in, within the 10-minute window. Modern oil is quite thin, so there’s no problem draining it, whipping the new filter on, and re-filling in under 10 minutes.

Src: http://autoexpert.com.au/buying-a-ca...l-change-issue

Discussion:
http://www.ozmazda.com/board/index.p...-change-on-32/

http://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?...-notice.29629/

https://www.exploroz.com/forum/10972...il-pump-issues

[SCORPION]

Originally Posted by Deepu Sharma

Has anyone upgraded the headlight bulbs to philips extreme vision or Osram nightbreaker on the trend models . kindly share the bulb specification for both high and low beams and how are the results. looking forward to the swap shortly. Did upgrade my tyres the very first day to geolanders OE size itself with a difference of 26k for all 4 wheels in exchange and trust me friends it is much needed for the beast.

Neither the nightbreaker nor the Philips Extreme Vision is going to improve the light throw from those projectors. I tried both the bulbs for the high beam and the projectors and the light output was still pathetic.
Finally, I went in for Osram HIDs (4300K) for the projectors and it is now much better. It is only relatively better, mind you. Headlights still remain my biggest issue with the car. Nightbreakers still do duty on the high beams and they are only marginally better than the OEM light bulbs.
In my opinion, you should go in for HIDs for the projectors as you will just waste your money trying out regular bulbs. Use the nightbreakers for the high beams. I find them better than Philips.
If you do end up trying out something different, please do let me know if it makes a big difference.

[Turbanator]

3.2 Duratorq has a variable capacity oil pump and there is a particular thing the owner or those who service this engine know.

I think this was for Ranger engines, they must have done changes by now. Never came across any article on Everest.

I went in for Osram HIDs (4300K) for the projectors

That's what I bought and was quite satisfied. Though I don't remember "K"now. I think FORD OE from Titanium will also be available by now.

[ecosport rules]

Originally Posted by Deepu Sharma

Has anyone upgraded the headlight bulbs to philips extreme vision or Osram nightbreaker on the trend models . kindly share the bulb specification for both high and low beams and how are the results. looking forward to the swap shortly. Did upgrade my tyres the very first day to geolanders OE size itself with a difference of 26k for all 4 wheels in exchange and trust me friends it is much needed for the beast.

Bhpian Anumod has upgraded to LED lamps on his trend.
Will check with him and get back to you

Originally Posted by Sankar

3.2 Duratorq has a variable capacity oil pump and there is a particular thing the owner or those who service this engine know.

When doing an oil change do NOT wait for more than 10 minutes to completely drain all that old oil and to fill fresh oil in the engine. If the oil drains out from the pump the pump may not self prime and the oil pressure will be low.

As enthusiasts some times we go the extra mile and do things like wait for an eternity for all that old oil to drain out before filling up with fresh oil. I know
Src: http://autoexpert.com.au/buying-a-ca...l-change-issue

Discussion:
http://www.ozmazda.com/board/index.p...-change-on-32/

http://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?...-notice.29629/

https://www.exploroz.com/forum/10972...il-pump-issues

I had mentioned about this issue sometime back on the same thread.
Spoke to the technical head at Mody Ford too, his response was that Ford has instructed them to change oil in the routine way.

He joked saying that the priming issue will not surface in India because our guys don't wait patiently for all the oil to drain before filling up new oil

[Highh5]

Ford unveiled its latest infotainment interface – Sync 3 in India, currently available only in Top Spec variant Titanium.

Athe 2016 Consumer Electronics Show (CES), Ford unveiled its latest infotainment interface – Sync 3. After a year of waiting, it finally makes its way to India in the Ford Endeavour. Ford says it will initially be available on the top-spec Titanium variants, which means it could eventually trickle down to the lower Trend trim. Sync 3 brings with it Android Auto and Apple CarPlay compatibility and an updated AppLink interface. It also features a new 8-inch capacitive touchscreen. This means the screen will be a lot more responsive and you’ll have features like pinch-to-zoom.

Source

[karthi.stark]

Originally Posted by ecosport rules

Ford is already feeling tremendous heat from the Fortuner and they had to hike the prices now,really?

What was Ford thinking?

May be they actually don't want to sell high numbers of the Endeavour in India.

I think Ford's thinking would've been like this-"if the fortuner is able to get so many bookings even though it offers less attractive feautres than our endeavour at a slightly higher price,then there's nothing wrong in restoring our cut price."
Please not that I don't want to hurt the feelings of fortuner owners. I'm just giving my own personal opinion of the fortuner and the endeavour.

[nareshtrao]

Originally Posted by karthi.stark

I think Ford's thinking would've been like this-"if the fortuner is able to get so many bookings even though it offers less attractive feautres than our endeavour at a slightly higher price,then there's nothing wrong in restoring our cut price."
Please not that I don't want to hurt the feelings of fortuner owners. I'm just giving my own personal opinion of the fortuner and the endeavour.

Perhaps this is a right statement though we will never know what Ford Sales' though process is.

From the looks of it, the entry of Fortuner may spur sales of Endeavour too as now the customers have a comparison and may lead some of the Fortuner footfalls to Ford given higher specs and the positive comparison reviews in all media.