[Ketan T]

Originally Posted by naren_kk

Why I am very keen on service cost, spare parts and resale value because I currently have Renault Fluence Diesel variant. The normal ten thousand kms service cost will be approx 20K and feel this is costlier. But one thing I appreciate in my car is niggles free and no rattling sound. It's been 5 years and driven 80K kms.
Probably I am going test drive both Endy and Fortuner back to back by early next year and come to conclusion.

Ford cars are not that costly to maintain these days. They have clear service cost breakup posted in their service centre as well as showroom. Just ask them to give you the service cost breakups. I had seen the cost breakups when I bought my Aspire. The first year service cost for my Aspire was less than 3k. Of course Endy service may not be that cheap.

Resale for Ford maybe less, but that would be true for other Ford cars. Endy is a very capable SUV and is selling in good numbers. So I feel that the resale value for Endy should be good.

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by naren_kk

Why I am very keen on service cost, spare parts and resale value because I currently have Renault Fluence Diesel variant. The normal ten thousand kms service cost will be approx 20K and feel this is costlier. But one thing I appreciate in my car is niggles free and no rattling sound. It's been 5 years and driven 80K kms.
Probably I am going test drive both Endy and Fortuner back to back by early next year and come to conclusion.

Ford service is definitely cheaper than Renault but currently you can't compare it with Toyota. On the other hand the service centers are improving due to pressure from Ford Chennai.
When it comes to Endeavour vs Fortuner there are loads of ifs and buts.
1. Service of Toyota is any day better than Ford.
2. There's no manual transmission in the Endeavour. Many 4x4 off roaders prefer manual transmission. The fortuner gives you that.
3. The terrrian management system in Ford is not present in Fortuner which is actually Land Rover technology and very useful.
4. Fortuner offers 7 years warranty while Ford is still extending their warranty to 6 years but with a heavy price of more than a lakh rupees.
5. The Fortuner shares it's engine with the top model of Innova so there is no exclusivity.
6. Endeavour has many many more features than a fortuner.
7. For hardcore off roading the Endeavour has differential lock which is not present in Fortuner.
8. The suspension set up is far superior in Endeavour.
9. The 3.2 L endeavour is full time 4X4 while Fortuner has option of 2WD and 4WD so it offers slightly more average.
10. The 3.2L trend model in the Endeavour was VFM however Ford stopped it and so you have only one option in 4X4.

Please see the You tube videos especially Australian videos. The Indian videos will confuse you.

Above is not a comparison but various points which you need to consider before buying. If your drive is going to be chauffeur driven mainly then go for Fortuner. However the pleasure and satisfaction of driving for me comes only from the Endeavour.

[Valhalla1979]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

1. Service of Toyota is any day better than Ford.
2. There's no manual transmission in the Endeavour. Many 4x4 off roaders prefer manual transmission. The fortuner gives you that.
3. The terrrian management system in Ford is not present in Fortuner which is actually Land Rover technology and very useful.
4. Fortuner offers 7 years warranty while Ford is still extending their warranty to 6 years but with a heavy price of more than a lakh rupees.
5. The Fortuner shares it's engine with the top model of Innova so there is no exclusivity.
6. Endeavour has many many more features than a fortuner.
7. For hardcore off roading the Endeavour has differential lock which is not present in Fortuner.
8. The suspension set up is far superior in Endeavour.
9. The 3.2 L endeavour is full time 4X4 while Fortuner has option of 2WD and 4WD so it offers slightly more average.
10. The 3.2L trend model in the Endeavour was VFM however Ford stopped it and so you have only one option in 4X4.

Just like to address some of these points.
1. Service: Its up to par with Toyota. Im new to Ford and I earlier had a fortuner. With the Endeavour, the service is as good if not better than Toyota. The service center Im talking about is Chennai Ford in Ambattur, Chennai. I remember with my fortuner I had a break shudder over 90kmph and I kept complaining to Toyota and they had no idea what to do until I got onto google and searched for a solution which was to the grind the disc. With Ford, they refer back to the factory if there is any untoward action that they cannot attend or need advice upon, which they follow with strict precision.

2. Transmission. Those who offroad for the sake of offroading will prefer manual. However, I offroad out of necessity. And one thing that everyone will tell you is that offroad in an auto means you can concentrate on the road ahead, gear shifts are much faster compared to a manual so you can actually move up a gear (problem in manual is that by the time you shift, you've lost so much speed that you have to go back to your previous gear) Ive had trouble with the fortuner shifting in 4x4 low from 2nd to 3rd. It almost will never land and always loses inertia.

Moreover, the Endeavour auto has a manual shift which you can engage the gear changes much faster than with a full manual. This is in 4x4 high and low.

The only problem with the Endy is weight. It is heavy. A wider set of tires for offroad will help it along much better.

Its not the superior nor inferior to the current fortuner. With every thing said, they both are very very equal to each other. So those who buy either are still getting very very capable vehicles. The only real differences that I see are looks.

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by Valhalla1979

Just like to address some of these points.
1. Service: Its up to par with Toyota. Im new to Ford and I earlier had a fortuner. With the Endeavour, the service is as good if not better than Toyota. The service center Im talking about is Chennai Ford in Ambattur, Chennai. I remember with my fortuner I had a break shudder over 90kmph and I kept complaining to Toyota and they had no idea what to do until I got onto google and searched for a solution which was to the grind the disc. With Ford, they refer back to the factory if there is any untoward action that they cannot attend or need advice upon, which they follow with strict precision.

As far as service goes Ford is very good but not at par with Toyota here in Mumbai. Chennai is headquarters for Ford in India and everything is controlled from there. And this could be one of the reasons for better service.

I am aware that the Endy has manual shifters. (I own the 3.2L 4x4 AT titanium). But when it comes to pure off roading people prefer manual transmission and that's available in Fortuner.

Agreed that both vehicles are equally capable, however the pleasure of driving is there in the Endeavour with many more features and superior suspension.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by naren_kk

My main factors for selecting a vehicle are diesel, automatic, top end version, highway safety, bigger boot, good build quality, good service network, resale value.

If resale value is important don't look elsewhere, just put your money on Innova or the Fortuner. For everything else the Endeavour trumps the Toyota duo unless you want 4x4 in manual avatar.

[Czarcarsm]

Originally Posted by Ketan T

Ford cars are not that costly to maintain these days. They have clear service cost breakup posted in their service centre as well as showroom. Just ask them to give you the service cost breakups. I had seen the cost breakups when I bought my Aspire. The first year service cost for my Aspire was less than 3k. Of course Endy service may not be that cheap.

If I remember my first 10k Endy service cost me approx Rs3800. That included about 10 L of Shell full synthetic.

Originally Posted by Valhalla1979

Just like to address some of these points.

2. Transmission. Those who offroad for the sake of offroading will prefer manual. However, I offroad out of necessity. And one thing that everyone will tell you is that offroad in an auto means you can concentrate on the road ahead, gear shifts are much faster compared to a manual so you can actually move up a gear (problem in manual is that by the time you shift, you've lost so much speed that you have to go back to your previous gear) Ive had trouble with the fortuner shifting in 4x4 low from 2nd to 3rd. It almost will never land and always loses inertia.

Very well said. I do a lot of visits to farmlands in ‘central India’. Many places have dilapidated or no roads. Just a clearing sometimes. The Endy handles those with such charm that even after a 6 hr ride back and forth, in varied road conditions, you are still fresh.

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by Czarcarsm

If I remember my first 10k Endy service cost me approx Rs3800. That included about 10 L of Shell full synthetic.

10L of engine oil?
And Rs. 3800 for the entire service including 10L of fully synthetic oil?
Can you post a scanned/soft copy of your service bill?

[nareshtrao]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

10L of engine oil?
And Rs. 3800 for the entire service including 10L of fully synthetic oil?
Can you post a scanned/soft copy of your service bill?

Yes. I can also vouch for the same.

My over one and half years of ownership of Endeavour 3.2 Titanium has has only one spend on maintenance. 2 free services of which the first one had no charge and the second one had 9.8 liters of Oil and the total bill was around Rs. 3,800.

My second year of ownership is coming to end in a few months and I do not recall spending anything other than the above amount (except what I wanted like 3M detailing, lights replacement etc. over and above OEM. Also once I did choose to change a cabin air filter on my own accord though the Ford engineers said it was in good condition).

I have owned (and currently own) multiple brands of cars (Hyundai, Honda, Mistubishi and Maruti included - But I have never owned a Toyota) and can vouch that I am happier with Ford Service than any - despite being a very picky and irate customer at times.

[mayjay]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

10L of engine oil?
And Rs. 3800 for the entire service including 10L of fully synthetic oil?
Can you post a scanned/soft copy of your service bill?

I believe it would be semi-synthetic as that is specified by Ford.

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by Czarcarsm

If I remember my first 10k Endy service cost me approx Rs3800. That included about 10 L of Shell full synthetic.
.

I guess the oil that you put was semi synthetic. Because that's what is recommended by Ford and all service centers will use the company specified oil. If they told you its synthetic then it's a lie as pure sythetic oil is very expensive. Having said that you can always use sythetic oil in the Endy but then it has always to be synthetic till you sell your car (for obvious reasons )

[Czarcarsm]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

10L of engine oil?
And Rs. 3800 for the entire service including 10L of fully synthetic oil?
Can you post a scanned/soft copy of your service bill?

See attached picture. Line #2 is oil alone, 9.8 litres !

Originally Posted by mayjay

I believe it would be semi-synthetic as that is specified by Ford.

No sir. It is full synthetic Shell Ultra Helix. I took this picture myself at the Service Shop to help my disbelieving eyes and again confirmed with the shop floor manager. Ford used to have Castrol (Semi-Synthetic?) but sometime back switched over to Full Synthetic. Yes I know it is unbelievable for this price ! I think I had a post on this a few months back.

[anandpadhye]

Thanks for the bill copy and the oil details.
Too good pricing of fully synthetic oil I must say.

BTW, 5W-30? I have seen 5W-40 most of the time. Forgot what exactly this second number maps to (I believe it is an indicator of max temperature the oil can withstand but does not map to temperature values directly).

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by Czarcarsm

See attached picture. Line #2 is oil alone, 9.8 litres !
Attachment 1693754

No sir. It is full synthetic Shell Ultra Helix.

The oil used is either MINERAL or SEMI SYNTHETIC as per the HSN Code in Bill. 27101980.

With GST and HSN Code, one can understand the sham ongoing.

As per post shared by bhpian AJ-got-BHP, link

Bill Screenshot: For engine oil HSN Code


1st 4 digit of HSN code 2710 mean either


The oil barrel says fully synthetic but contains mineral or semi-synthetic oil.

Fully synthetic oil cannot be cheaper than Rs. 900 per litre. Also HSN Code would be 3403.

[ecosport rules]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

The oil used is either mineral.or semi synthetic
The oil barrel says fully synthetic but contains mineral or semi-synthetic oil.

Fully synthetic oil cannot be cheaper than Rs. 900 per litre. Also HSN Code would be 3403.

We had a similar confusion for the Ecosport too and later came to know that it was semi synthetic

[Czarcarsm]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

BTW, 5W-30? I have seen 5W-40 most of the time. Forgot what exactly this second number maps to (I believe it is an indicator of max temperature the oil can withstand but does not map to temperature values directly).

The number next to W, as in winter, stands for cold condition viscosity. The other is operating temperature viscosity. Lower the number thinner the oil is. Team-BHP I am sure has some write up.

I would think India may be better of with either 5W-40 or may be 10W-40 in certain regions. I need to check this up why it is not so for some cars.

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

The oil used is either MINERAL or SEMI SYNTHETIC as per the HSN Code in Bill. 27101980.



With GST and HSN Code, one can understand the sham ongoing.



The oil barrel says fully synthetic but contains mineral or semi-synthetic oil.



Fully synthetic oil cannot be cheaper than Rs. 900 per litre. Also HSN Code would be 3403.

Thank you very much. That was a good education. Appreciate shedding light on this. But now I wonder what all those Shell barrels were doing. There were some 6-7 barrels along with a few Castrol Semi-Synthetic barrels. I am not sure if they would go to the extent of storing Semi-Synthetic in those Shell barrels. The dealership would be in so much trouble. The Ford company engineers visit that site every couple of weeks or so. Even Shell Oil Co. would be mad to say the least and could initiate actions against Ford.

Is Mustang using HSN 3403?

Anyone else changing oil for Endy in the near future, can you please check and confirm. Thank you.