[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

However, there is one other big miss that is driving me to other cars. The lack of back lighting on anything on the dash or steering. This is shocking. More so because no one here in this thread appears to be seriously discussing this as a problem.

Originally Posted by Heavy Horse

Btw, Smartcat has a post dedicated to this issue. I went through all his posts and Wangdu's before I took the decision to buy the BRV.

This is my expensive solution to the problem.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...hting-kit.html

I'm pretty sure there are much cheaper alternatives on AliExpress.com. Do a search for "LED car interiors" (or something similar)

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by Heavy Horse

The back lighting is fine on the dash and off course the AVN system. The problem, and it's a big miss as you say, is the absence on the steering and the door panel where the ORVM and window controls reside. The good thing is that the "blind man " learns !!!

Originally Posted by smartcat

This is my expensive solution to the problem.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...hting-kit.html

Thank you both. But really, after dropping 14 large ones, I am not about to do jugaad for basic interior stuff. The BRV is simply not worth it in my book. By that, I mean it doesn't have a long list of positives that will make me live with this one miss (among others) which I consider to be a big one. This is solely my opinion of course. At this point, unless something drastic happens to change my mind in some way towards the BRV, there is no chance that I am buying this car.

I test drove the Hexa today and came away mighty impressed. What's more? They are aggressively selling that car (XTA at 20 lacs on road in Mumbai). For just 6 lacs more, I think I get lots and lots more. Bigger engine, better build, 6 airbags, charging ports everywhere, captain seats, the works!!

Also, a pre-owned XUV top end AT will be slightly cheaper than the BRV. And of course, the total VFM Ertiga which offers 80% of the Innova's functionality at 60% of the price.

I am really tilting towards these cars. The BRV is out. Honda screwed this one up big time.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

I test drove the Hexa today and came away mighty impressed. What's more? They are aggressively selling that car (XTA at 20 lacs on road in Mumbai). For just 6 lacs more, I think I get lots and lots more. Bigger engine, better build, 6 airbags, charging ports everywhere, captain seats, the works!! I am really tilting towards these cars. The BRV is out.

If you can easily afford 20L for Hexa AT, clearly there is no contest between BRV AT and Hexa AT. After all, Hexa is about 40% to 45% more expensive than BRV in this configuration. It's like wondering which is better to buy and own -> Hyundai Eon or Hyundai Grand i10.

Hexa Vs BRV is a contest only for whom 20L is a stretch.

[arun_kun]

Agree with SmartCat here.

I opted for BRV because it was practical 7 seater and if not my dad was set on buying second hand innova, which I would not have used for my daily commute without driver.
BRV has very car like ride and the all black interiors were also of my taste. 3rd row is much more useable then XUV. If you want good practical 7 seater with budget of 14 lacs, then you can seriously consider it. Slow speed ride is bit bumpy but once you gain speed it gets better. Since it has longer wheel base it handles road unevenness pretty well. Looks wise front and back are good, best angle would be the front 3 quarters. Side looks are bit of downer. It was much more drivable for my wife then EcoSport, XUV and HEXA. I did test drove HEXA and I was totally smitten but it was beyond my budget and also too big.

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by smartcat

If you can easily afford 20L for Hexa AT, clearly there is no contest between BRV AT and Hexa AT. After all, Hexa is about 40% to 45% more expensive than BRV in this configuration. It's like wondering which is better to buy and own -> Hyundai Eon or Hyundai Grand i10.

Hexa Vs BRV is a contest only for whom 20L is a stretch.

Actually, I have a slightly different point of view.

1.) Please note that I also mentioned that I am considering the Ertiga also. So, it is not only about 20 lac cars like the Hexa or XUV for me. At this point, after due inputs from lots of people, I have decided to look at all the spacious cars available just to give myself some perspective. I feel that this would be the last big purchase for me for the next decade or more. What with kids growing fast and the accompanying school expenses?! It may be worth it to spend once and have that purchase be meaningful for a long time.

This quest began because I made a trip to Mahabaleshwar in my Ritz. Travelling party was myself, the missus, my MIL, and two kids aged 3 years and 6 months respectively. I love my Ritz. It has served me so well. But, that trip with screaming kids, a bulky car seat, cranky oldies and absolutely no room in the car... that was tough. It was all I could do to stay sane.

The children are only going to get bigger. So, anything I buy now is likely to become congested soon. From that point of view, it may best to buy the biggest thing on the market so that we can make it work for a long time.

Also, pretty soon, we are going to have EVs. This is probably going to be my last ICE vehicle.


2.) I evaluated the individual cars based on their price points. To be honest, I was never smitten by the BRV's looks; and from what I am observing, absolutely no one is bowled over by its styling. The same is the case for the Ertiga (and possibly the Innova too). Hence, these products have to make a strong case for themselves in terms of the functionality and utility they offer. My point is that for 14.6 lacs on road, the BRV has some glaring omissions as a people mover for a family with children - no ISOFIX, no backlit controls, no BT buttons on steering, no Apple Car Play or Android Auto, no rear view camera, no active safety features like Brake Assist or Traction Control.

To me, it is not worth paying this much money for this car. But, it may be worth it to pay the same money for a used XUV, or even to pay 20 lacs for the Hexa; or to save some big cash and buy the Ertiga AT for 10 lacs.

That is the point I was making.

Thank you

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

To be honest, I was never smitten by the BRV's looks; and from what I am observing. the BRV has some glaring omissions as a people mover for a family with children - no ISOFIX, no backlit controls, no BT buttons on steering, no Apple Car Play or Android Auto, no rear view camera, no active safety features like Brake Assist or Traction Control.

That's fair. My assessment of your comments is that you give higher weightage to features, comfort & safety. And lower weightage to practicality (boot space, tumbling seats) and automotive engineering (acceleration, braking, transmission tech, handling, steering etc)

I have decided to look at all the spacious cars available just to give myself some perspective. I feel that this would be the last big purchase for me for the next decade or more. What with kids growing fast and the accompanying school expenses?! It may be worth it to spend once and have that purchase be meaningful for a long time.

Interesting line of thought. A few comments:

1) You will probably get bored of Ertiga in 5 to 6 years. Plus, in Vxi AT configuration, you neither get extra safety nor features.

2) Hexa and XUV500 might have a longevity (owning for 10+years) problem.

3) Innova Crysta ZX AT is probably the only MPV that fits your needs perfectly. Sure, you might have to spend Rs. 25 Lakhs but you will probably get back most of that money when it is time to sell. Think over it.

4) You could wait for the launch of next gen Ertiga and see if it fits the bill
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...en-ertiga.html

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by smartcat

That's fair. My assessment of your comments is that you give higher weightage to features, comfort & safety. And lower weightage to practicality (boot space, tumbling seats) and automotive engineering (acceleration, braking, transmission tech, handling, steering etc)
[/url]

Not true. The mechanical aspects and practicality are important to me. I just don't think that Honda's mechanicals and associated practicality of what's on offer in the BRV are worth the 14 lacs. That was my point. Also, to be fair to other manufacturers, none of the cars made today are lemons in the truest sense. My Maruti has not given me any issues in 5 years. I have known Tata owners who won't buy anything else. So, lots of good cars. Not just Hondas.

Originally Posted by smartcat

1) You will probably get bored of Ertiga in 5 to 6 years. Plus, in Vxi AT configuration, you neither get extra safety nor features.
[/url]

Again not true. The VXI has everything except for two important misses. First, it doesn't have seat height adjustment. I really need it. But, I have investigated and it can be remedied for 15k. Secondly, the VXI doesn't have rear glass washer wiper. This cannot be remedied. But, although I would have really liked it, I can live without this feature. The third big omission is the lack of AVN in the VXI. But, as I said, I need the AVN for Google maps mostly. Considering that I get everything else, I can probably use my phone on a holder on the dashboard. But, if I had to have it, I can. It costs some 30 or 40K. Maruti accessories division itself has another AVN for the Ertiga (aside from the one they provide in the ZXI+ variant) which offers Apple Car Play and Android Auto. So, except for rear window washer wiper, I can get the others easily for a little more money (65 K). But, not having backlit buttons? There is no fix for that. Ambient light that I need to charge and switch on is not a real fix IMHO.

But, you are right about one thing. Why wait 5 or 6 years? I am bored of the Ertiga now itself :-)

Originally Posted by smartcat

2) Hexa and XUV500 might have a longevity (owning for 10+years) problem.

[/url]

Correct. But, 10 years is a while. If I can get good solid memories out of the car in the mean time, it may be worth it.

Originally Posted by smartcat

3) Innova Crysta ZX AT is probably the only MPV that fits your needs perfectly. Sure, you might have to spend Rs. 25 Lakhs but you will probably get back most of that money when it is time to sell. Think over it.

[/url]

Again. You are correct. But, I just can't stand the Innova. It looks like a pregnant rat. I kind of do not like the Ertiga for the same reason. But, I do not like it a bit less than the Innova.

Originally Posted by smartcat

4) You could wait for the launch of next gen Ertiga and see if it fits the bill
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...en-ertiga.html

[/url][/quote]

I was thinking about this this week. If I cannot find anything to satisfy me, I will wait for next gen Ertiga or the next gen XUV.

But, I really think I may end up with a pre-owned XUV. Of all the cars on the list, that is the only car that I actually like. Rest of the entries on the list are all head over heart cars.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

Not true.

Again not true.

Mohan, I'm afraid I have to call you out now since this is BRV thread. I don't think your arguments are rational.

1) You find Rs. 10 Lakh Ertiga and Rs. 20 Lakh Hexa value for money, but not Rs. 14.5 Lakh BRV. Unless import duties are involved (eg: premium segment), pretty much all cars are value for money at their particular price points.

2) You want seat height adjustment (missing in Ertiga) and backlit lights (missing in BRV). But you are willing to investigate and spend Rs. 15,000 to fix Ertiga's drawback, but not Rs. 1,000 or Rs 2,000 (on aliexpress) to fix BRV's drawback. Most interior LEDs can be connected to car's battery directly too - no need to charge it.

3) You don't seem to mind spending Rs. 65,000 at Maruti Genuine Accessories, but you can do the same for BRV too and get AVN with android auto/apple car play, reversing camera and parking sensor. For Rs.30,000 or Rs. 40,000.

4) When it comes to BRV (against Ertiga), you are ignoring that you get 16 inch alloys, bigger tyres, engine start/stop, projector headlamps, higher GC, usable boot space and expensive seats. But a comparison between Hexa and BRV strangely brings out whatever features missing in BRV.

5) You are ignoring that BRV has about 20% better acceleration than Ertiga AT and has modern CVT vs 4 speed AT. And it matches the performance of Hexa AT. Remember BRV AT costs 35% less - no brownie points for that? Also, diesel engine of Hexa gives you no fuel economy advantage over BRV AT because Hexa weighs 2 tonnes. Your running cost per km will be more or less the same.

6) When it comes to safety aspects (BRV Vs Hexa) - you get nimble handling, light weight (lower stopping distance) and fantastic brakes. In many circumstances, BRV is likely to get you out of dangerous situations. I have posted this braking video numerous times -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G6oY942tkw

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Mohan, I'm afraid I have to call you out now since this is BRV thread. Also, your arguments are not rational.

I am going to choose to not be offended here by your statement.

Originally Posted by smartcat

1) You find Rs. 10 Lakh Ertiga and Rs. 20 Lakh Hexa value for money, but not Rs. 14.5 Lakh BRV. Unless import duties are involved (eg: premium segment), pretty much all cars are value for money at their particular price points.

If the BRV was such value for money it would be flying off the shelves, looks notwithstanding. Eg: The Ertiga. No one I know really likes the Ertiga as a design. But, it offers so much for the money. So, it sells at least 4000 units a month. In the Honda portfolio, based on numbers alone, only the City appears to be VFM in its segment.

Originally Posted by smartcat

2) You want seat height adjustment (missing in Ertiga) and backlit lights (missing in BRV). But you are willing to investigate and spend Rs. 15,000 to fix Ertiga's drawback, but not Rs. 1,000 or Rs 2,000 (on aliexpress) to fix BRV's drawback. Most interior LEDs can be connected to car's battery directly too - no need to charge it.

Maybe I should have been more clear earlier. Maybe the use of the word remedy was not appropriate. So, let me clear the confusion. For 15 K, I get the actual seat height adjustment that the ZXI gets. Not an aftermarket jugaad arrangement. Maruti guys will pull out the entire drivers seat in the Ertiga VXI and replace it with one from the ZXI. You will agree here that for the money spent, I am directly getting the missing feature. Whereas in the fix you are talking about, I am not getting backlit controls at all. So, what if the ambient lights can be directly charged? I don't want to be switching lights on and off every time I want to see controls. If I could have paid and gotten backlit controls in the BRV, I would have. But, I can't

Originally Posted by smartcat

3) You don't seem to mind spending Rs. 65,000 at Maruti Genuine Accessories, but you can do the same for BRV too and get AVN with android auto/apple car play, reversing camera and parking sensor. For Rs.30,000 or Rs. 40,000.

Again. Incorrect. Yes, I can get the AVN from Honda. And it's 50 k. Not 40. It will provide rear view camera. But, it will NOT have ACP or AA. I asked already. Believe me; for every missing feature in the BRV, I asked and looked for a fix. Please notice that I am not bringing up the lack of charging ports in the BRV much because I decided that I can probably live without it. I am not entirely unreasonable.

In contrast, the Maruti accessory AVN actually supports both ACP and AA along with rear view camera. At least that's what the accessories guy at Spectra Motors told me.

Originally Posted by smartcat

4) When it comes to BRV (against Ertiga), you are ignoring that you get 16 inch alloys, bigger tyres, engine start/stop, projector headlamps, higher GC, usable boot space and expensive seats. But a comparison between Hexa and BRV strangely brings out whatever features missing in BRV.

I think you are repeatedly missing the point. I am not biased towards the Ertiga or biased against the BRV. I like neither of them all that much. My point was that the BRV is NOT WORTH THE PRICE THEY ARE CHARGING. If it was 12 lacs on the road, I would not say what I am saying. But, it's not. It is 14.6. And this is after a lot of price correction apparently!!

As to the features that you have mentioned, they do not matter to me that much. Usable boot? Yes, I will take it. Ability to seat 6 comfortably? Yes, I will take that too. But, bigger alloys? Start stop button? Expensive tumbling seats? No. These don't matter to me. What also does not matter to me are rain sensing wipers (if I cannot switch on the wipers when it rains, I probably should not be driving); cruise control (not on unpredictable Indian roads); power folding ORVMS (I can push them closed and pull them open as needed. No problem); or even power adjustable ORVMs (in my car, I set them once 5 years ago. No one has touched that setting since). These features are on the Hexa and the XUV. But, I never discuss them because they don't matter to me. But, those cars have other features that are meaningful to me - 6 airbags, traction control, and yes, even backlit controls. So, you see the features that matter to you do not matter to me. And from the looks of it, the market is more on my side here.

Originally Posted by smartcat

5) You are ignoring that BRV has about 20% better acceleration than Ertiga AT and has modern CVT vs 4 speed AT. And it matches the performance of Hexa AT. Remember BRV AT costs 35% less - no brownie points for that? Also, diesel engine of Hexa gives you no fuel economy advantage over BRV AT because Hexa weighs 2 tonnes. Your running cost per km will more or less the same.

THIS. This is a 100% valid point. And that is why as I said earlier, I would have been OK with the BRV being 12 lacs on road (compared to the Ertiga's 10). The 2 lac premium justifies the performance increase that you get in the BRV. But, at 14.6, they are asking me to pay 50% more than the Ertiga!! That is too much of a price jump for the important features that it misses. And for the record, I am aware that the Ertiga too does not have ISOFIX. But, it has most of the other features that I need, and what it doesn't have, I can buy separately (not as rudimentary fixes; but as full features).

Originally Posted by smartcat

6) When it comes to safety aspects (BRV Vs Hexa) - you get nimble handling, light weight (lower stopping distance) and fantastic brakes. In many circumstances, BRV is likely to get you out of dangerous situations. I have posted this braking video numerous times -

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=_G6oY942tkw

Not debating you at all over here. The BRV is a better driver's car than the Ertiga for sure. And, like I said, I would pay 12. Not 14.6. It's not THAT much better as a driver's car.

But, on second thought, the lack of back lit controls will probably make me hesitate even if they sell the BRV at 12. That is a huge miss in my eyes. I drive a lot at night. I don't want to be feeling my way thru the car.

FYI, I was actually actively considering the BRV despite the shortcomings that I mentioned earlier (ISOFIX, charging ports, BT phone button and RV camera). But, during the time of my consideration, I didn't know of the lack of backlit controls because all TDs happen during the day and the sales executive didn't mention the backlit controls at all. Once I found out about the missing backlighting, the BRV just dropped straight out.

Incidentally, I know this is a BRV thread. But, this discussion started because I posed my requirements in this thread by mistake instead of posting it in the family long distance tourers thread. But, when I tried to edit it, I could not delete the post. So, I put in another post below my original post requesting Mods to move my first post to the long distance tourer thread. That didn't happen. Instead, lots of people piped in and started answering my query here itself. So, I stayed for the discussion.

In the mean time, the Mods deleted the post where I asked for my requirements post to be deleted !! Go figure.

Finally, please don't take anything I say about the BRV personally. All of our choices are different. But, you should know that I am not out to deliberately insult the car. So, a discussion on its demerits should not be perceived as such.

[ani_meher]

I am always amazed how people from different segments jump to Hexa and suddenly prices seize to matter. First there was one gent who was considering Ignis/ Swift, then here an Ertiga/ BRV guy, both buying a twice or more costing vehicle and comparing it to lower segment vehicles. Is 7lakh = 10 lakhs = 14 lakhs = 20 lakhs???

Anyways, glad that they found their suitable car.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

I am going to choose to not be offended here by your statement.

Whoops. Apologies!

If the BRV was such value for money it would be flying off the shelves, looks notwithstanding.

Not sure if there is such a direct correlation between sales numbers and value for money factor. Eg: Hexa Vs Innova Crysta.

Originally Posted by ani_meher

I am always amazed how people from different segments jump to Hexa and suddenly prices seize to matter. First there was one gent who was considering Ignis/ Swift, then here an Ertiga/ BRV guy, both buying a twice or more costing vehicle and comparing it to lower segment vehicles. Is 7lakh = 10 lakhs = 14 lakhs = 20 lakhs???

Well, it really happens . I created a thread on this topic long time back -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-your-car.html

77% of Team-BHPians have done that, according to the poll

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

I am always amazed how people from different segments jump to Hexa and suddenly prices seize to matter.

Anyways, glad that they found their suitable car.

I haven't bought the Hexa. Actually, I have not even decided that that is the car that I am going to buy. All I am saying is that as it stands today, despite the price difference of 6 lacs, there is a higher chance of me buying the Hexa than there is of me buying the BRV.

[riteshritesh]

A few pointers Mohan. Forget the AVN navigation and you being happy with it. Google maps on your phone is ultimately going to be your last resort. This, after owning the City ZX CVT which has a Navigational AVN.
An XUV/Hexa AT for your 99% city driving is not going to keep you happy after the honeymoon period is over. This, after selling off the Innova and using the BRV CVT. If you have plans of retaining the Ritz for regular use and the Big Diesel for outstation or occasional extended family rides within city, then makes perfect sense.

The rationale of most of the BRV buyers is a need for a sedan like delicate car to move 6 people within the city most of the times, with a road trip thrown is as an incentive.

[vikash49]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

I haven't bought the Hexa. Actually, I have not even decided that that is the car that I am going to buy. All I am saying is that as it stands today, despite the price difference of 6 lacs, there is a higher chance of me buying the Hexa than there is of me buying the BRV.

About nine months back, I was exactly at the same cross roads, split between the BRV CVT & the Hexa AT! You could read more about it here

[thecapri]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

I was thinking about this this week. If I cannot find anything to satisfy me, I will wait for next gen Ertiga or the next gen XUV.

But, I really think I may end up with a pre-owned XUV. Of all the cars on the list, that is the only car that I actually like. Rest of the entries on the list are all head over heart cars.

Hello Mohan - I had the exact same situation about an year back. I too found the BRV good but a bit costly. Hence i bought a pre-owned Mobilio ( 1 year old). It saved me valuable bucks. May be you want to go the same route. Not necessarily Mobilio but in your case an XUV. Cheers

I am very happy with my Mobilio. Its heavily used during year end when I tend to travel long distance.