[swiftdiesel]

Originally Posted by captain.torque

I have noticed that for some strange reason, car makers are moving the number plate housing on rear hatches of new SUV's downwards which according to me takes away from the butch look. It started with the Creta and the BR-V too has followed in the same path.

I am attaching an edited pic here (pardon my poor editing skills, I only know how to use paintbrush )

I would love to hear from other Bhpians as well, whether the edited car looks better or not.

Your editing skill is commendable and, yes, the edited rear looks good. Having the number plate low is not some new trend. The Creta, as well as the BR-V have large rear windscreens that take up a lot of space. Then, there's the wiper and its motor that need to be accommodated below the windscreen. The rear number plate recess needs to accommodate the little plate lamps, tail gate opener, all in that small space. It's not a design choice to place them low; it's out of a practical necessity.

Also on a different note, attaching the pic from the review. Those fins help in aerodynamics. Also the reason that in recent years side mirrors aren't directly fixed to the A pillar but hinged on a tiny platform to aid free air flow between the mirror and the car's body.



And, yes, great review!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by ZMG

Creta (for a 5 seater ordinary engine over a million rupees? ), S- Cross ( Though I love it, still for a 1.6 L, paying 15 lakh rupees? )
You get the trend.

Creta has ordinary engines? The 1.6 VTVT is nearly there with the 1.5 iVTec in performance (Read Creta review for details). And the 1.6 CRDi is commonly acknowledged as being miles ahead of the 1.5 iDTec. Not to mention that it offers both petrol and diesel automatic options.

S-Cross is a 1.6 diesel with 118bhp and 320Nm torque as compared to the 1.5 Honda iDTec with 100bhp and 200Nm. And is easily one of the most explosive engines below D segment class.

So, did not understand why you are suggesting these as inferior here?

[shashanka]

Great review, as always! What stood out in my mind & kept buzzing at the back of my head was the striking similarity in the external dimensions of both the BR-V and the erstwhile CR-V, including their respective wheel-bases (the BR-V at 2.66 meters and the CR-V at 2.62 meters - barely 40+ mm separates the two).

The similarity was remarkable - apart from the kerb weights. The BR-V at 1271 kgs and the CR-V at 1600 kgs, both for the respective diesel versions. With the current ongoing buzz about the NCAP crash tests, comparison between these two is inevitable - at least as far as crash-worthiness is concerned. And one hopes that Honda had this in mind during the development of the BR-V.

[ZMG]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

So, did not understand why you are suggesting these as inferior here?

I never suggested the I-Vtec or I-dtec to be superior to these engines.
The point I was trying to make here was the Value for money.
I really don't see how these cars are VFM and BRV not, with similar engines plonked (PS: Not the DDIS 320, thats a bomb, but 15 lakhs is still a lot of money)
People are complaining about BRV being priced way too expensive, I wanted to make a point about how the market is right now.

Agreed Honda could've priced it lower by a 1 - 1.5 Lakh and have a winner, but thats how they are trying to keep the brand image.
I am not getting into debate wether that is right or wrong, with not so superior quality being provided, but it's not Honda alone who is doing that.

I just feel the BRV is a good car made available to indians, at a not too bad price point.

Cheers,
ZMG

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by speedkrish

Unless people are willing to spend 2 lacs more BRV is likely to loose out to Ertiga as Ertiga offers more value for money as a MPV.

Based on bangalore on-road pricing,
Difference between top-end Ertiga(ZDI+ SHVS) and top-end BR-V(VX) is 4.6L
Even if you compare with last but one, BR-V(V), the difference is 3.3L

[KiloAlpha]

<BEGIN RANT>
The Honda BR-V is very clearly not an SUV by any stretch of imagination. It doesn't matter how many times Honda calls it "SUV" and no matter how many times this is re-iterated in reviews by all manner of media (sadly, I will have to include our forum in this group as well). The BR-V is an updated Mobilio, and a 5+2 MPV. Period. So can we all please stop calling it an "Urban SUV" or whatever other marketing cow-dung terminology is flung at us?
<END RANT>

Alright. Now that this is off my chest, why not compare the BR-V with the current market leader 5+2 MPV - Maruti Suzuki Ertiga?

Here goes ...

[rev_rohit]

A really detailed information, truly a 5 starter review!

In my opinion Honda seems confused about market plans and really failed to recognize the pulse of the market in time.
Initially they failed on Accord, civic as well as on CRV front.

Secondly they took so long to recognize the need for a MPV, or a pseudo SUV in the market. Now when the market is getting saturated with MPV and the likes, they are introducing Mobilio and BRV.

After failing on mobilio front they shouldn't have tried to revive the segment instead they should have worked on giving a brand new product to thrill the buyer, which is terribly missing from their lineage.

I think it's too late for Honda to enter this fast crowding mpv market. And in the rat race it has forgotten it's own character and lost its hardcore fan following in the process.

As I prefer safety over reliability, I like European cars over Japs or Koreans.
But still if asked to choose amongst Hondas,
I (and I'm sure many of us) would still prefer a second gen Honda city or a civic over Mobilio or BRV.

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by ZMG

Creta (for a 5 seater ordinary engine over a million rupees? ), S- Cross ( Though I love it, still for a 1.6 L, paying 15 lakh rupees? )
So honestly, a price of 15 lakhs for a Honda automatic is not very bad in todays scenario.

Just to reiterate - the Creta & the S-Cross come with 1.6L engines which do NOT get excise duty benefits.

And, since both cars are well over 4 meters in length, they do not get the excise duty benefit in this particular aspect either.

Neither have they ducked under the Ground Clearance specifications (like the XUV500) to save that small bit more in this department.

(Link)

Despite the BR-V's 4-metre+ size, it does come with a 1.5L diesel engine which helps it save 4% over the excise costs of the above-mentioned 2 cars.

You are right, though. Both the Creta & the S-Cross are/were grossly overpriced for the overall packages they offered. The S-Cross 1.6 with it's recent price cut has become exceedingly VFM, but since the Creta has tasted blood in monthly sales, Hyundai India won't be indulging in the same anytime soon.

Originally Posted by ZMG

As a consumer for cheap SUVs ( Well cheaper than Fortuner - Endy), now I am really spoilt with choices, and ones that are actually worthy and RELIABLE.

Jumping the gun by quite a bit, aren't we?

The BR-V's long-term reliability is yet to be proved.

Not judging the product by a legendary engine which has become, quite frankly, a bit long in the tooth despite it's reliability and has been cropping up issues from it's recent 2014-avatar.

Originally Posted by ZMG

The point I was trying to make here was the Value for money.
I really don't see how these cars are VFM and BRV not, with similar engines plonked.
People are complaining about BRV being priced way too expensive, I wanted to make a point about how the market is right now.

None of these cars are VFM, except perhaps the S-Cross 1.6 after it's price-cut. This is an all-new segment created by the Renault Duster and after people lapped it up month-after-month, car companies got greedy and started overpricing their offerings.

All the cars which followed - the EcoSport, the Terrano, the Creta, the S-Cross, even the Vitara Brezza - are overpriced for what they offer, IMO. The Vitara Brezza became such a superhit from Day 1 was because people didn't feel short-changed at even the 12-lakh OTR pricing it came with, because MSIL loaded it to the gills with everything they had in their armory.

The complaints which are coming from fellow BHPians is regarding the low-cost platform the BR-V is built upon, and the number of glaring omissions feature-wise in an otherwise thoroughly contemporary product. You get the same steering, dashboard, Head Unit, etc., as it's younger siblings the Mobilio, the Amaze and even the Brio (Honda Brio : Test Drive & Review) (the latter two in their latest 2016 facelifted avatars).

Seats are thin, plastics are bad, panel gaps galore, narrow width, Mobilio-esque overhang, a dash consisting of a dot-matrix styled HU display, ancient recirculation toggle mode, missing reverse sensors forget a reverse camera, partial to no cladding in the wheel wells - all these are going against the car.

At least in the Creta & the S-Cross, you don't feel shortchanged. Sure, both competitors come with a few deficiencies of their own, but their respective pros outweigh their cons. Hence the Creta, despite being the most overpriced of the lot in this particular segment, is still a strong bestseller even in the 10th month from it's launch.

The Mobilio was already overpriced from the day it was launched, hence it didn't taste success in our market. I hope BR-V doesn't go the same route.

In short, it doesn't justify the premium pricing it is commanding over Honda's thoroughly-premium C2 segment sedan, the City. Given a choice by putting a gun to my head, I would rather pick up the City (again) than the BR-V. I am getting much more premium interiors, a thoroughly modern Honda dash, bolstered seats, a fantastically wide rear bench which can accommodate 3 with ease, and a humongous boot. A car I can live with, if it didn't have all those horrible QC issues due to which I had to sell it off within 1½ years.

Originally Posted by BUXX

What does that Headunit do for Telephony exactly ??
Just play the call over the car"s speakers?!! How does one connect /disconnect a call?

Missing buttons on the steering-wheel also means that every time you receive a call on your Bluetooth-paired phone, you have to take your eyes off the road for receiving/ending calls. Could be very, very dangerous on the roads when the car is on the move.

[SmartCat]

Gentlemen, just take a look at the tire tread depth -



Doesn't it look like this particular tyre has run atleast 40,000 kms? Speedometer reading is only 773 km (from the GIF image) though.

Perhaps the tyre looks worn out because it is dirty?

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Jumping the gun by quite a bit, aren't we? The BR-V's long-term reliability is yet to be proved.

Not judging the product by a legendary engine which has become, quite frankly, a bit long in the tooth despite it's reliability and has been cropping up issues from it's 2014-onwards avatar.

Any reported cases of Brio/Amaze/Mobilio/City stranded on the road? Any reported cases of AC conking off? Turbocharger replacements? Did anybody get a lemon?

If yes, I will definitely buy extended warranty. If no, then Hondas are still reliable. I would classify other issues as "niggles".

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by ZMG

The point I was trying to make here was the Value for money.

After the above reply from RavenAvi, I do not have much to add, except for one minor point.

These products (Creta, SCross, Duster) are not value for money products- they are aspirational products. Ertiga, Lodgy, Scorpio etc are value offerings. XUV 5OO bridges the line being value for money in the lower variants and aspirational in its higher variants.

The problem with the BRV however is that it is positioned as a value for money offering (more space, extreme parts sharing, sparse features list, unexciting looks, average diesel option, average fit and finish), but priced against aspirational products. From many of the previous posts, it is obvious that the most aspirational feature of the BRV is the Honda badge.

Can it charge the extra premium for the badge alone? Monthly sales will tell in a few months. I predict the average sales to settle down around the 1500 - 2000 cars mark, and not the 3000 target that Honda has set. Can only wait and watch now.

Originally Posted by smartcat

If yes, I will definitely buy extended warranty

No comments on the quality aspect, but it's always a good idea to purchase extended warranty.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by -xplora-

Honda does not have a Creta competitor. HR-V is miles ahead of Creta in almost every sense

Originally Posted by Doylthippo

HR-V is leagues and leagues ahead of Creta. It may even go beyond Tucson, if it is launched as it is, in India.

Pardon me for calling out these statements as slightly misleading. And please allow me to explain -



Removing features like panoramic sunroof, LED headlights and radar assist systems which never make it to Indian market for these cars, there is no big differentiator between HR-V and Creta - be it in dimensions or features list. Also, keep in mind that the ix25 facelift has also been previewed in the Chinese market with many new features, atleast some of which could trickle done to the Indian market if needed. So, Creta might still move ahead with the game even if HRV was launched with few features here.

Creta is based on the Elite i20 platform while HR-V is based on the Jazz platform. HR-V second variant from top (without LED lights and panoramic roof) costs 60% more than the base variant of Jazz. The UK spec variant itself is almost neck to neck with the Creta, the advantage only tilts little bit more in favour of the Creta when the Indian spec 1.5 iVTec and 1.5 iDTec are added to the equation for the HRV.

That said, Honda could have taken the fight to the segment leader if they had launched the HRV instead of BRV against the Creta. I don't see any see that prevents them from doing so, except for profit maximization in using the cheaper Brio platform.

Note - Mods, apologies for double post. Posts are actually made 3-4 hours apart.

[Viju]

Was driving home after work yesterday, and I noticed this Toyota Estima (Previa outside Japan) in front of me. Somehow, the tail-gate looked strangely familiar.



Might be a coincidence.

Kill me not, Honda drivers, as I am one among you!



As far as the overall car goes, I really think Honda needs a new direction with their product strategy. And a renewed focus on quality of materials and equipment offered. After all, the BR-V is essentially a Mobilio with higher ground clearance. 15L is pushing it, for a car without even rear camera or sensors - even by Honda standards.

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Gentlemen, just take a look at the tire tread depth -

Attachment 1510695

Doesn't it look like this particular tyre has run atleast 40,000 kms? Speedometer reading is only 773 km (from the GIF image) though.

Perhaps the tyre looks worn out because it is dirty?

That is just the angle of the picture deceiving you.

I have the same tyres on my car(Michelin P3ST), and trust me, these tyres last long. Even with my driving style, after 50k kms, I have about 40% of tread left.

[landcruiser123]

Hyundai wins 3 COTY for making quality products. Honda's quality seems to have gone south.

Why the hell would you have slider for re circulation?
Why the hell would you have alto grade sunvisors?
And there are so many more things which shouldn't belong to a car of this class.

These cost cutting measures aren't pushing Honda upmarket. They are simply focused on volumes and not improving quality. The only reason I think the BR-V would sell is because it's a 7 seater. Else, it's Creta/S-Cross all the way.

[shashanka]

Yes, just as I suspected and just as I had specifically mentioned earlier. Almost the entire thread is drowning in posts from members deep into the discussion as enthusiasts - and why not, after all that's what t-bhp is all about - for, of and by enthusiasts & buffs! It just struck me that many of us, me included, were raving & ranting about the miserable showing recently by the Indian contingent at the various NCAP jamborees, including most of our big guns with their supposedly macho offerings. I had said then (in one of my posts) that we would rant & rave for a while about the terrifying lack of safety in most of the cars from our domestic mfrs, and then we would be back at the feeding-trough & back to business as usual. Sure, Honda is in the business for making money - but are we? I feel that on these occasions - as at the launch of a new model - one of the major questions to be asked on this forum , should be to inquire about the crash safety of the car concerned.

I know that I certainly would not like to speculate about the consequences to my family members (including my 18 month old grandson) should they (God forbid) be involved in a crash in the vehicle concerned.