[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Makes sense. Are you planning to do this with the dealer's help? Or do you already have access to a Techsream system? I have been searching online for Techstream cable and software. VAG owners do a lot of stuff using the VCDS software and cable. I was wondering if it is possible for Toyota owners too.

Techstream as I know is super expensive and not available as easily as VCDS. There is Techstream Lite but again availability and support is minimal. Haven't seen individuals using this and mostly bought by authorized service centers.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by audioholic

I have the cable and tool with me. But its not the same as what the dealers use here but since these are global models at least 80% of the functionality and the configurable items are the same. For example I do not have the option to configure the speed alerts. But there are a lot of other options/diagnostics available.

Great. How did you get hold of the tool? Is it available for purchase for individuals? Or did you get it through your work?

[eccentric]

Originally Posted by Narendranath

Our current car is a Honda City which was purchased towards the end of December 2014 and I guess it’s time now for a replacement. Having considered the various options available in the market I’m veering towards the Innova Crysta, the budget being capped at Rs.25 lakhs. I would be glad to have inputs from fellow members on this forum to ease the decision-making process

My honest suggestion: Look elsewhere

Day before yesterday, I had a TD of the top end 7 seater manual variant. My experience of driving the brand name Innova is first hand. I am new to this Body-On-Frame, MUV, RWD platform. My current cars are an O9 Swift Diesel and an O7 Civic. So, my impressions with the Innova will be based on the aforementioned cars and few C-SUVs' that I rode.

Rear seat experience

The seats are comfortable but they aren't snug. The second and third row back rests can be reclined too. Ingress to the third row is less cumbersome for a 5'8" guy. The second row seats can be slid forward to generate the required knee room for the third bench passengers.

The drone from the engine is filtered to your body's lower back through the seats in speeds less than 60 KMH and at lower gears say 1,2 and 3. More pronounced in the third row than the second row. This nauseating feeling could become unbearable if the chauffeur decides to lug the engine (carry lower speed in higher gears).

Undulations, potholes and craters, waviness of the highways are un-filtered and transmitted throughout the cabin at speeds below 80 KMH. Would like to point out that the passengers aren't shaken by these but leads to an unpleasant ride feeling. Reminded me of those journeys' in Tempo travellers'.

None of the above effects were felt on well paved highways. The car completely transformed itself.

The Driver Seat

A heavy, long travel clutch meant that I had to adjust the seat base too close to the steering wheel to find the convenient operation of the ABC pedals. Perhaps, the biting point of the clutch too was un-noticeable since the wave of torque was progressing rapidly and moved the vehicle forward with a gentle retraction of foot from the clutch pedal.

The gear box is the worst character in the car. The fact that the vibrations of the transmission case rises up like venom through your veins, at all the instances you touch the gear lever and this trait remains undiminished throughout is an underwhelming experience. Adding to that, it has long throws, undefined rubbery gates through 1-2-3. Failed to slot into 1 while traversing a cross-aligned road block.

At highway speeds of more than 100 KMH while attacking the sweeping corners, the steering movements of approximately ±15° are non-reactive. Was left wondering how much more I need to correct the steering to get the intended wheel turn. This phenomenon automatically urges your mind to slow down before those prior moments.

The brakes are the best. Just loved them. Bite was sharp, communicative and the speed shedding progression was fast. Very much confidence inspiring. Even better than the Civic I'd say!

Frontal visibility is good, the A-pillar doesn't intrude much. The rake of the windscreen, the deep dashboard are all reminiscent of my 07 Civic! But, the headlight illumination is poor. The Low beam throw is short and the High beam doesn't spread wide too.

Typical powerful A/C. 24.5°C and all the passengers felt comfortable on-board. No qualms here.

Could hear a very mild turbo whine as the revs climb. Not sure if it's a problem but it was addictive. The lag in the bottom end is not felt at all and in-gear accelerations are smooth and the top-end pull is even addictive. The car can easily hold high speeds on straight lines all day.

Over the broken tarmac, this car is no Nissan Kicks/ Renault Duster/ Ford Ecosport trio. The ride remains unsettled and the suspension just rolls when the wheel is subjected to such imperfections. The rebound rate is slow, I felt.

Why did I TD the Innova?

In dire need to replace the aging 1.3 MJD which has clocked 2.77 lakh KMS, single driven till date, a lot of cross-segment hunt for a new car is in the process over the last 6 months. A NA petrol could never suit our business requirements since the car would have to carry some demanding pay loads and so it was evident that either a Turbo petrol or a Diesel only could bear the mantle.

XUV 7OO and Safari/ Harrier too were in the cards. Dad insisted if we pay 24 odd lakhs for a Tata, why not pay a few more and buy an Innova instead? Forgive me, he's such a Toyota fanatic. His words made sense, for this is the only true blue Japanese diesel engine in the 2L guise barring the Isuzu.

We are mechanical purists. Our present cars are from the era of less electronic interventions. All we cared about are the joy to drive and reliability. The car should last the next 15 years munching the same or more number of miles as the Swift does.

Moreover, the trust in the Toyota Dealer/ASC of my region was growing more on hearing such news as below,
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4704200 (Highest reading on the odometer!)
The car belongs to my locality and is still being serviced at the dealership!

Verdict

Reliability is taken care of. But what about the joy to drive? The shaky gear lever, notchy shifts, the unsupple ride are major chinks that we couldn't live with at all. Therefore, the Innova was removed from the list and the hunt continues!

(Disclaimer: I mean no offense to any Innova owners. The impressions I shared are limited to the vehicle I test drove and based on the other vehicles I have driven. The TD vehicle has crossed more than 27,000 KMs at the time of the ride.)

[Narendranath]

Wow! That was quite elaborate. But while your observation regarding the dismal ride comfort in the second and third rows must stem from your personal experience of the car, it stands in the minority as most of the reviews of auto journalists and direct users praise the ride quality dubbing it as a major USP. However your other observations serve to enhance the appeal of the Innova Crysta. Nevertheless I shall keep in mind your word of caution before taking the final decision. Thank you...

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Narendranath

But I’m cagey about the possible drop in fuel efficiency and higher maintenance costs.Am I right in having this apprehension?

Maintenance cost might turn out to be cheaper for the automatic compared to the manual since there is no clutch replacement involved. And Toyota ( aka Aisin ) torque converters generally outlasts the vehicle. But there is a catch. If you drive the vehicle like a manual, you might end up replacing the brake pads more often. I'll recommend you to check my previous post (Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review) on this.

The ARAI mileage rating for the different Innova Crysta models are as listed below.

2.8 Diesel AT ( BS 4) - 14.29 kmpl
2.4 Diesel AT ( BS 6 ) - 14.9 kmpl
2.4 Diesel MT ( BS 6 ) - 15.1 kmpl

While, the automatic does have a lower mileage than the manual, the difference is negligible especially with a comparable 2.4 L on both the models.

The real life mileage I got on my 2.8L Diesel automatic is mentioned in this post (Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review).

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by eccentric

Verdict

Reliability is taken care of. But what about the joy to drive? The shaky gear lever, notchy shifts, the unsupple ride are major chinks that we couldn't live with at all. Therefore, the Innova was removed from the list and the hunt continues!

Utility vehicles will make sense only when they are used for that purpose - Innova has no alternatives. I suggest you test drive the Crysta automatic for a complete experience, a lot of your concerns will be taken care by the AT.

The older Innova did have a more refined ride quality but its not the one you would want to drive.

[Narendranath]

Originally Posted by amalji

Maintenance cost might turn out to be cheaper for the automatic compared to the manual since there is no clutch replacement involved. And Toyota ( aka Aisin ) torque converters generally outlasts the vehicle. But there is a catch. If you drive the vehicle like a manual, you might end up replacing the brake pads more often. I'll recommend you to check my previous post (Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review) on this.

The ARAI mileage rating for the different Innova Crysta models are as listed below.

2.8 Diesel AT ( BS 4) - 14.29 kmpl
2.4 Diesel AT ( BS 6 ) - 14.9 kmpl
2.4 Diesel MT ( BS 6 ) - 15.1 kmpl

While, the automatic does have a lower mileage than the manual, the difference is negligible especially with a comparable 2.4 L on both the models.

The real life mileage I got on my 2.8L Diesel automatic is mentioned in this post (Toyota Innova Crysta : Official Review).

Thank you Amalji. Through the useful information you've shared you've reduced my anxiety regarding the automatic. I'm about to take a leap of faith and reassuring remarks made by fellow BHPians like you would help alleviate my anxiety. Thank you...

[Narendranath]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Utility vehicles will make sense only when they are used for that purpose - Innova has no alternatives. I suggest you test drive the Crysta automatic for a complete experience, a lot of your concerns will be taken care by the AT.

The older Innova did have a more refined ride quality but its not the one you would want to drive.

Yes you're right. I recently took a test drive of the Innova Crysta automatic and I was thrilled by the ease of operation and the quick response. That's the reason why I have been mulling about going in for this car. The numerous positive reviews have only served to tempt me to look no further....

[Turbojet]

Originally Posted by eccentric

My honest suggestion: Look elsewhere

Reliability is taken care of. But what about the joy to drive? The shaky gear lever, notchy shifts, the unsupple ride are major chinks that we couldn't live with at all. Therefore, the Innova was removed from the list and the hunt continues!

(Disclaimer: I mean no offense to any Innova owners. The impressions I shared are limited to the vehicle I test drove and based on the other vehicles I have driven. The TD vehicle has crossed more than 27,000 KMs at the time of the ride.)

How about AT version of Innova ? For me the bottlenecks were hard steering and clutch , plus the constant shakiness of gear lever. Due to an injury, i cant adjust to a hard steering. AT did solve the clutch and gearbox issue.

[sunilg33]

Originally Posted by Turbojet

How about AT version of Innova ? For me the bottlenecks were hard steering and clutch , plus the constant shakiness of gear lever. Due to an injury, i cant adjust to a hard steering. AT did solve the clutch and gearbox issue.

I brought a pre worshipped 2.8 AT GX a year back and there has never been a moment I have regretted buying an AT. Especially the 2.8 AT is a brute of an engine. I've not driven the 2.4 AT but from the reviews, it's no slouch either.
Please keep in mind that crysta's dimensions are among the highest among all Muv's. So it's not easy to drive around in the city and AT makes the job that much easier. You have fewer things to worry about and can concentrate on maneuvering the vehicle.

Regarding mileage like all torque converters, there is a drop of up to 20% compared to manuals in city traffic but on the highway, there is hardly any major difference. Attached is an image with figures I achieved over a 1500KM journey from Bangalore to Kanyakumari, the 2.4 should fare slightly better or the same.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Great. How did you get hold of the tool? Is it available for purchase for individuals? Or did you get it through your work?

No I do not have any professional connection with Toyota. I got it through Aliexpress during the time of purchase and the tool also was provided. However the setup was not straight forward and I took some help from a fellow member who had done the same thing and then it worked well.

Originally Posted by Turbojet

How about AT version of Innova ? For me the bottlenecks were hard steering and clutch , plus the constant shakiness of gear lever. Due to an injury, i cant adjust to a hard steering. AT did solve the clutch and gearbox issue.

I would never recommend the manual Crysta for personal use. Its too much of money spent on a car once you start driving it and realise its shortcomings. The absence of the sixth gear makes it annoying on the highway and though the low end torque offers good driveability in all gears, the automatic is worth the cost difference. Its totally sadistic of Toyota to have an engine that produces its max turque at less than 2k RPM and then provide a fifth gear that is so short, the car does 100 above 2K rpm. Its just a waste of all the power and torque produced by the engine. In comparison to that, the automatic with its sixth cog works brilliantly on the highway to keep the engine and NVH in superb control when you do 100-120 and still deliver decent FE. Hence, if you are spending those big bucks on a Crysta, just buy the automatic. City mileage takes a hit due to the lag in the torque converter in 1,2 and 3rd gear but 4th gear onwards, the car becomes a different animal.

[Narendranath]

Originally Posted by sunilg33

Regarding mileage like all torque converters, there is a drop of up to 20% compared to manuals in city traffic but on the highway, there is hardly any major difference. Attached is an image with figures I achieved over a 1500KM journey from Bangalore to Kanyakumari, the 2.4 should fare slightly better or the same.

Quite reassuring to know that the highway mileage can be decent

Originally Posted by audioholic

I would never recommend the manual Crysta for personal use. Its too much of money spent on a car once you start driving it and realise its shortcomings. The absence of the sixth gear makes it annoying on the highway and though the low end torque offers good driveability in all gears, the automatic is worth the cost difference.

Thank you. The insight provided by you makes it clear that for my requirement the automatic is the right choice. I shall take the final decision before long.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Its totally sadistic of Toyota to have an engine that produces its max turque at less than 2k RPM and then provide a fifth gear that is so short, the car does 100 above 2K rpm. Its just a waste of all the power and torque produced by the engine.

And even more sadistic that they gave a 6 speed manual in the BS4 Touring Sport variant for a short time. Come BS6 and it is gone. Atleast in the facelift they could have given the 6spd manual.

Not just the highway cruising rpm, but the shift feel too. The R5xx manual transmission is older than even the 2.7l petrol motor and could be traced back to the 80s. Not that older transmissions are bad. The Qualis transmission for all its imprecise, wide shift action and bucking behaviour, felt like a well oiled machine. The 1st gen Innova though slightly notchy, had the same characteristics. But the Innova Crysta manual transmission is so notchy and rubbery, you get put off by it.

We don't need the iMT stuff, Toyota. Just give the Innova the 6 speed transmission is sooo needs. Or is it some sort of strategy to get people to buy automatic?

[nikhil.nayak]

I just got my 2.4 GX AT and it is absolutely superb. I had a lot of reservations with the test drive vehicle that I was given but the new vehicle is just fantastic.

I ended up taking the vehicle to CAR SONICS Hyderabad to get some of the "upgrades" done. One thing I have noticed is that after changing the stock panels to the wooden trim the engine noise can be heard whereas it was silent before the change. Need to take it back to Car Sonics to have it looked at.

The AT is buttery smooth and I have been enjoying driving in the city so far. What a difference from driving manual all these years. There are a couple of things which I have noticed but will share later.




.

[Viper21]

Originally Posted by nikhil.nayak

I just got my 2.4 GX AT and it is absolutely superb. I had a lot of reservations with the test drive vehicle that I was given but the new vehicle is just fantastic.

I ended up taking the vehicle to CAR SONICS Hyderabad to get some of the "upgrades" done. One thing I have noticed is that after changing the stock panels to the wooden trim the engine noise can be heard whereas it was silent before the change. Need to take it back to Car Sonics to have it looked at.

The AT is buttery smooth and I have been enjoying driving in the city so far. What a difference from driving manual all these years. There are a couple of things which I have noticed but will share later.




.

Congrats on the purchase. I got my gx at one day before. I got the wooden panel from the dealership itself and unable to differentiate of the noise is more or less. Hopefully they have used good quality ones. Wish u lots of happy miles