[ubermensch]

So, in the end as Ashubrah said, can we fix 225/65 without changing rims? Also, will the dealer take my existing tyres (driven ~100 kilometers on the odo) for a new one?

[Sankar]

225 65 17 or even 225 60 17 is not an ideal choice. The overall diameter would be too large compared to stock. The rim will take it though.

Stick with 225 55 17 tyres with better quality or downsize to 16inch wheels.

[smekad]

I think 215/60/17 could be a choice as it is within 3% of tolerance than 16inch. However it has limited choices.

[geotracks]

Originally Posted by amalji

I would recommend to wait for Toyota to find a solution for this. Once I get back my car, I'm going to escalate this higher up. One of the reasons why people buy a Toyota is for the peace of mind and reliability it offers. All that gets negated if the vehicle rides on a balloon like tyres which can crack any time. The confidence in the vehicle plays a huge part in the decision process of whether to take your vehicle for a long journey along with your family or not. With the current 17" tyres, I do not have that confidence.

Thanks for the detailed response. Really helpful. Please keep us posted on outcomes of your escalation to Toyota.

I agree, Toyota should really take accountability for this short coming on quality front wrt the tyre issues that have plagued new owners of Toyota Innovas.

I mean if going from 17" to 16" had rectified the issue, why revert back to 17" and go with the same tyre manufacturer and tyre model - in this case Bridgestone Turanza tyres.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Lego28

the alloy however, they said cannot be claimed under insurance unless it s part of an accident.

Alloys are indeed covered under Toyota zero depreciation insurance. If someone told you it's not, they have lied. Your car hitting a stone and the stone damaging the alloys is indeed an accident. If it's not considered an accident, then it means the alloys doesn't have the quality in which case they should replace it using the warranty. Whether it has to be replaced under warranty or insurance, Toyota can decide. But there is no way they can deny both.

Originally Posted by geotracks

I mean if going from 17" to 16" had rectified the issue, why revert back to 17" and go with the same tyre manufacturer and tyre model - in this case Bridgestone Turanza tyres.

The 17" will ofcourse offer better grip, braking and cornering ability along with being more costly. But, it cannot handle typical Indian road conditions. Even from a comfort point of view, it offers inferior ride quality compared to the 16".

Quoting GTO's old post -

Originally Posted by GTO

Car brands should really think twice before cut-copying-pasting from international trends. Big rims & short tyre profiles are swell in countries where the roads are smooth as a table. For India however, I hate this trend. When I tested the Innova Crysta, my exact comments were:

"215/55 tyres on 17" rims which wear a neutral design. Lower variants have 205/65 R16 shoes (check out the 16" rim design in Sankar's post). Both are a step up from the older Innova & its 15" rims. While the 17" size looks really neat, personally, I'd prefer 15 or 16 inch wheels on an MPV. Reason = taller sidewall = superior ride quality + wheel is less prone to damage on broken roads."

Now, the Hexa comes with 19" rims . Crazy, stupid decision. Owners are forced to make compromises:

- Firmer ride
- Tyres & wheels are more prone to damage
- Expensive tyre replacement costs every 30,000 - 40,000 km
- Higher unsprung weight (metal weighs more than rubber)
- Tendency to tramline

Other than looks, there is no other advantage. But as is obvious, the cons far outweigh the pros.

[AShubrah]

Originally Posted by ubermensch

So, in the end as Ashubrah said, can we fix 225/65 without changing rims? Also, will the dealer take my existing tyres (driven ~100 kilometers on the odo) for a new one?

Originally Posted by Sankar

225 65 17 or even 225 60 17 is not an ideal choice. The overall diameter would be too large compared to stock. The rim will take it though.

Originally Posted by smekad

I think 215/60/17 could be a choice as it is within 3% of tolerance than 16inch. However it has limited choices.

I’ve talked to a friend here in Jamshedpur who owns a tyre shop, and I’ll be going in to try the 225/65 & the 225/60 this weekend to see if the rim can take it comfortably, and also if there’s decent clearance in all aspects.
If it doesn’t work out, 225/55 is the next best option, as Sankar Sir advised.

Originally Posted by amalji

Alloys are indeed covered under Toyota zero depreciation insurance. Whether it has to be replaced under warranty or insurance, Toyota can decide. But there is no way they can deny both.

+1

[amalji]

Originally Posted by AShubrah

I’ve talked to a friend here in Jamshedpur who owns a tyre shop, and I’ll be going in to try the 225/65 & the 225/60 this weekend to see if the rim can take it comfortably, and also if there’s decent clearance in all aspects.
If it doesn’t work out, 225/55 is the next best option, as Sankar Sir advised.

One more thing you might want to check is on how it affects the warranty and the zero depreciation insurance. Weigh the pros and cons and take an informed decision.

[geotracks]

Does it matter if one fills nitrogen v/s regular air in the tyres?

My main worry is that if the tyres start giving way one at a time, it will get tricky to get them replaced as there will be one new and 3 older tyres to start with and similar continued trend of mismatch between set of old & new tyres for a period of time. The same issue happened with my Honda City. I tried telling MRF (thru' Honda) that the batch was defective (bubbling on the wall). But they only agreed to replace when they physically saw the bubble. So, I had to do this 4 different times, 1 tyre at a time. Very frustrating. Ultimately, I just went to a regular tyre shop and purchased Yokohama tyres.

But the case with Toyota 17" now, is different, as I read it from many here. The alloy size and low side wall is the issue. Replacing the 17" and getting 16" alloys will be expensive. Need to find suitable tyre size alternatives on existing 17" alloys. Will be looking at guidance from others here based on their findings & experiences with alternate tyre sizes fitting 17"alloys.

Originally Posted by geotracks

I tried to play around with my new Touring Sport's Navigation maps. I am wondering if Toyota has provided Map My India or Toyota's own proprietary navigation software? I pressed, Navigation -- > Options -- > Destination -- > Address screens, to type in specific destinations. However the options the software provided in the auto-populated list did not have significant local landmarks that I would have expected to find (like in google maps or when I type the same places when requesting an Uber).

Since I was locally driving around it did not matter, as I was only playing around with the system to familiarize myself with the navigation software. Wonder if the software needs an update (during my upcoming 1st service) or is it a proprietary Toyota software that lacks details like those of Map My India or google maps. If there is a different way I need to try, please share.

Re-posting this, as I saw no responses. Still unable to make the Navigation work to the extent that it should, like how google maps work.

[AShubrah]

Originally Posted by amalji

One more thing you might want to check is on how it affects the warranty and the zero depreciation insurance.

Will surely check call up my SA tomorrow & check on that before taking a step forward, Amal Ji.

Originally Posted by geotracks

Does it matter if one fills nitrogen v/s regular air in the tyres?

With nitrogen, your tire pressures will remain more constant, as nitrogen is less likely to migrate through tyre rubber than oxygen is, and a tyre filled with nitrogen also exhibits less pressure change with temperature swings, saving you a small amount in fuel and tyre maintenance costs. There will also be less moisture inside your tyres, since water is present as vapour in air, meaning less corrosion on your wheels. You will not be able to feel any difference in the ride, handling or braking, unless your tyre pressures were seriously out of spec and changing to nitrogen brought them back to the proper numbers

Originally Posted by geotracks

Re-posting this, as I saw no responses. Still unable to make the Navigation work to the extent that it should, like how google maps work.

I find the navigation system a little lacking as well when it comes to the POI & local landmarks database.
Also, one can’t feed in a location’s pincode if the place doesn’t exist in the databse, no matter how well defined and popular it is in the city.
I know that a pre-loaded SD card based navigation system won’t have the finesse & flexibility of Google Map, but I expect it to have one of the prime places of my town as a landmark/address.

[Vulken Auto]

Originally Posted by geotracks

But the case with Toyota 17" now,

Re-posting this, as I saw no responses. Still unable to make the Navigation work to the extent that it should, like how google maps work.

I dont think issue here is on QC on bridgestone tires or oem wheels but pinching of tires under load.Thats how toyota or bridgestone could getaway from customers complaints. There will always be no defect in tire or the alloy, its the load on them. By the way 94 load rating on tire is too low if you hit a decent pot hole. I havent seen a tire compress so much @33psi as my 16 inch tires with no load. Even tata hexa has some problems with 19 inch wheels.

Regarding info on navigation I pmed you on the same.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by Vulken Auto

I dont think issue here is on QC on bridgestone tires or oem wheels but pinching of tires under load.Thats how toyota or bridgestone could getaway from customers complaints. There will always be no defect in tire or the alloy, its the load on them. By the way 94 load rating on tire is too low if you hit a decent pot hole. I havent seen a tire compress so much @33psi as my 16 inch tires with no load. Even tata hexa has some problems with 19 inch wheels.

Regarding info on navigation I pmed you on the same.

Tyres and low air pressures. Low pressure mainly. Alloys are fine.

33PSI on a heavy a vehicle and this low profile (215/55)? Must be joking. Load is carried by air. Lower profile needs higher pressure. Tyre is a container, higher load rated tyre might help but load rating 94 (670Kg) is just about enough for a fully loaded 7 seater Crysta.

Z kerb weight = 1790kg
Pax weight - 7 x 90kg = 630Kg
Luggage = 200KG approx
Total weight = 1790+630+200 = 2620Kg
Load on each tyre = 655Kg (approx, weight distribution matters)

If calculated based on Toyota's Gross vehicle weight theres even more margin.
GVW = 2340Kg
Load on each tyre = 585Kg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_..._weight_rating
The gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), or gross vehicle mass (GVM) is the maximum operating weight/mass of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer[1] including the vehicle's chassis, body, engine, engine fluids, fuel, accessories, driver, passengers and cargo but excluding that of any trailers.

[Vulken Auto]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Tyres and low air pressures. Low pressure mainly. Alloys are fine.

33PSI on a heavy a vehicle and this low profile (215/55)? Must be joking. Load is carried by air. Lower profile needs higher pressure.

+1 where are the forces exchanged?
Answer: At the bead or the contact of tire and rim. Hence air pressure carries the load of the vehicle at the bead. So there has to be an air pressure which can give comfort and also bear the load to avoid pinching of tires(Toyota says 33psi ). I have seen my front tire pressures increase drastically +5psi while back tires pressures are constant after 30 mins driving in city while pressures increased uniformly +3 psi on all tires after 5 hrs constant driving on highway.

But kinematics of rim and tire have to be discussed to understand the steady vs unsteady state behaviours . Following have to be discussed
1)Angular velocity
2)Contact patch
3)Foot print force
4)Rolling resistance
5)Longitudinal forces
6)Lateral forces
7)Tire slip

[SPARKled]

It's really disheartening to see all the top variant owners suffering from anxiety even after spending quarter of a crore on their cars. Toyota should provide a good will change to 16 inch wheels and higher profile tyres to those who wish to get this change. I don't see how Toyota takes a loss here. A few more 16 inch wheels will go but the majority of top end buyers will stick to their "awesome" 17 inch rims and lower profile tyres.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by SPARKled

It's really disheartening to see all the top variant owners suffering from anxiety even after spending quarter of a crore on their cars. Toyota should provide a good will change to 16 inch wheels and higher profile tyres to those who wish to get this change. I don't see how Toyota takes a loss here. A few more 16 inch wheels will go but the majority of top end buyers will stick to their "awesome" 17 inch rims and lower profile tyres.

While my car is in the workshop, I made a simultaneous complaint to Toyota. They directed it to the dealer and Ravindu Toyota called me to know about my concerns. I told them that I need an explanation from Toyota on the whole 17" tyre fiasco. I also told them that I need all of my tyres changed to 16". They told me that Toyota has reverted back to 17" after fixing the problem. I told them that if that's the case, then I wouldn't have suffered this issue in the first place.

I pleaded with them to change to cheaper 16" tyres and alloys and take back these 'costly' 17" tyres and alloys. I told them very clearly that I frequently go for really long trips with my family and I don't have the confidence doing that with these balloon like 17" tyres. Keeping my fingers crossed. Hope, better sense prevails with Toyota.

And it's not just the anxiety of tyre burst that you get for free with the extra 7-8 lakhs spent on the top end variant, you also get inferior ride quality ( compared to the G variant ) as a compliment! If it was not for the 7 airbags, ESP, TRC, HAC and cruise control, I would have never taken the top end variant. Blue ambient light is just a gimmick for hiding the lack of a sunroof which would have been a much more useful feature. And I'm much better off without that topend HU which doesn't even have Android Auto and Apple car play in this age.

There is only one word to describe the Toyota navigation in the age of google maps - 'Spartan'. Forget the POIs, you will not even find many of the Indian Village names in it. And no, you are not entitled to get updates to the map. The version you get is once and for ever. If you need a newer version of the maps, pay 15,000 INR to get it. Even that is a one time purchase. Any further update and you will again have to pay through your noses. What exactly is Toyota trying to prove with the navigation here ?

Originally Posted by AShubrah

I find the navigation system a little lacking as well when it comes to the POI & local landmarks database.
Also, one can’t feed in a location’s pincode if the place doesn’t exist in the databse, no matter how well defined and popular it is in the city.
I know that a pre-loaded SD card based navigation system won’t have the finesse & flexibility of Google Map, but I expect it to have one of the prime places of my town as a landmark/address.

Originally Posted by geotracks

Re-posting this, as I saw no responses. Still unable to make the Navigation work to the extent that it should, like how google maps work.

The Toyota navigation is 10 years outdated if you compare it with Google maps. It brings back memories of the mapmyindia GPS device I used around 9 years back on my Maruti Esteem. One hack I can think of is to take the coordinates of the place you want to navigate to from Google maps and then type in these coordinates on the Toyota navigation. Even though place names are missing on the Toyota navigation, roads seems to be well covered on the Toyota navigation. So, this kind of method should solve most of the issues that we face with the Toyota navigation.

To get the coordinates from Google maps, first search for the place in Google maps. Then drop a pin near to it on the road. Then click on more info. It'll look something like the below picture.



12.8913681 and 77.6055581 are the values that we are looking for. Just type in these values on the Toyota navigation manually and you should be good to go.

And don't forget to save these coordinates to your favorites if you visit them frequently.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by Vulken Auto

+1 where are the forces exchanged?
Answer: At the bead or the contact of tire and rim. Hence air pressure carries the load of the vehicle at the bead. So there has to be an air pressure which can give comfort and also bear the load to avoid pinching of tires(Toyota says 33psi ). I have seen my front tire pressures increase drastically +5psi while back tires pressures are constant after 30 mins driving in city while pressures increased uniformly +3 psi on all tires after 5 hrs constant driving on highway.

But kinematics of rim and tire have to be discussed to understand the steady vs unsteady state behaviours . Following have to be discussed
1)Angular velocity
2)Contact patch
3)Foot print force
4)Rolling resistance
5)Longitudinal forces
6)Lateral forces
7)Tire slip

Reason why front tyre went up +5PSI and rear did not is because of more weight on the front wheels (assuming vehicle was not fully loaded) and thus more sidewall flex and more heat. Given enough time (highway) rear catches up. Higher pressure would have resulted in lower tire temperatures due to lower deflection.

Setting correct tire pressure is more than running manufacturer recommended tyre pressure (especially if its a Jap). In case of Europeans it doesn't hurt to follow manufacturer recommended tyre pressure and they don't go low like the Japs. Thanks to European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation (ETRTO).

The difference in tyre temperature after a long highspeed highway drive between tyre inflated to manufacturer 33PSI cold and a tyre inflated to a higher pressure is considerable. When measured tyre with higher pressure runs lower temperature.