[Vulken Auto]

Let me barge in guys because its the same tyre / wheel story. I had 16 inchers on my touring sport when I took delivery. @33psi They give a very pleasant ride on pot holes and highways but the down side was I felt steering on heavy side with satisfactory in handling, grip and hard braking. Now the new shoes are 25% more width and side wall reduced by 13%. Steering felt super light , and they grip like a leech.

[san_udyawar]

Originally Posted by Vulken Auto

Let me barge in guys because its the same tyre / wheel story. I had 16 inchers on my touring sport when I took delivery. @33psi They give a very pleasant ride on pot holes and highways but the down side was I felt steering on heavy side with satisfactory in handling, grip and hard braking. Now the new shoes are 25% more width and side wall reduced by 13%. Steering felt super light , and they grip like a leech.

Your alloys look great! I have kept the tyre pressure at 33psi and the ride quality has improved to a great extent.
At the end of the day what matters is what makes you happy and you seem to be quite happy with how the things have turned out for you and it's the same with me as well.

Cheers!
Regards
Sanket.

[haisaikat]

Originally Posted by Vulken Auto

I always wanted to see my touring sport in 18 or 19 inch wheels and look what i got. These wheels are for city use only.

They look gorgeous and ideal for a car of this size. I have a question, if you have larger wheels would it not touch your chasis in off road conditions more often when the car will have a tendency to bounce on suspension? Also I had once checked with Topsel Toyota dealer of Kolkata regarding wheel upsizing and they said that they cannot go beyond the Toyota recommended size. So 16 and 17 inches wheels come as standard but 18 inch and above are non - standard. Not to discourage you but did you check with Toyota if this does not violate any warranty terms?

Originally Posted by geotracks

All Z models (AT or MT) are in 7-seat configuration. The GX & V (MT) variants can be procured in 8 seat configuration.

Per Toyota brochure, the V variant diesel (only 2.4 litre) version comes in 8 seater configuration but the V variant petrol only comes with 7 seater configuration. So if you are looking for 8 seater options the GX versions (Petrol 2.7 and Diesel 2.4 / 2.8 MT / AT) and only 2.4 VX MT are the only options.

Originally Posted by maverick145

We have shortlisted the Innova as our next vehicle for family trips. However, confused whether to go for the 2.4 VX MT 7 Seater Diesel or 2.8 GX AT 7 Seater Diesel.

I believe somewhere on this same thread one BHPian reported that GX only has singe AC unit and that the rear vents / controls are blowers only. Only higher variants get separate AC units for rear. Not sure if Toyota has changed it with the 2018 upgrades of the Innova Crysta which upgraded the GX features. Also the GX Head Unit comes with 4 speakers and VX has 6 speakers and you need to check if its a priority for you whether the GX HU can be added two more speakers or for that the entire HU needs to be changed. You are right most other features can be fitted later and that includes fast charging too as you can easily put a fast charging car USB charger in 12 volt socket and that would be more convenient as they have more than 1 USB port.

Regarding heat rejection glasses, yes this is a boon as if this is the same HSEA (High Solar Energy Absorbing) - IR Cut glass they are putting in Yaris and also in US version of Camry then these are real good as preventing heat not only helps in maintaining cooler temperatures comparatively better but also the IR Burn could discolor your dashes if your car will remain parked outside for long. Alternatives include sun films which are anyway banned and otherwise even prior to its ban the problem with putting sunfilm on the backside window (on boot) is that if it has defogger lines and if there are future problems on these lines then the manufacturer may reject warranty claims on these citing the film as an excuse, happened to me for my Hyundai Getz Prime. So you will not get this otherwise in the lower variant.

The other thing I noticed is that the two variants you have chosen are both diesels, are you not considering the petrol at all? The reason I say this is because barring city drives where AT will make it a breeze, there is a research that needs to be made whether for off road conditions (for example cold start on a uphill road) if the Petrol will have an edge in low rpm torques over the diesel since the turbo zone diesel is 400 rpm above the idle rpm of 800 under a situation where the car is fully loaded and AC on. Also if prolonged use of the car in hilly area / off road where low rpm drives may be more will impact the longevity of the AT gearbox over that of the MT version. MT gearbox / clutch version maintenance is supposedly cheaper than AT gearbox / torque converter.

May be other owners can pitch in here with their experience.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by haisaikat

The other thing I noticed is that the two variants you have chosen are both diesels, are you not considering the petrol at all? The reason I say this is because barring city drives where AT will make it a breeze, there is a research that needs to be made whether for off road conditions (for example cold start on a uphill road) if the Petrol will have an edge in low rpm torques over the diesel since the turbo zone diesel is 400 rpm above the idle rpm of 800 under a situation where the car is fully loaded and AC on. Also if prolonged use of the car in hilly area / off road where low rpm drives may be more will impact the longevity of the AT gearbox over that of the MT version. MT gearbox / clutch version maintenance is supposedly cheaper than AT gearbox / torque converter.

May be other owners can pitch in here with their experience.

1. Low end torque is much better on the diesel than on petrol. It's a big engine small turbo combo.
2. AT is better than MT on hilly terrain both in terms of gearbox durability and utility. This is because of a combination of fluid coupling in an AT torque converter and the phenomenon of torque multiplication which allows you to get out of tricky inclines smooth without making the engine cry.

[rovingeye]

Just came back from a 600KM roundtrip in the Crysta. Following are my observations.

• Steering is way too tight and gives your arms and shoulder good bit of exercise
• The centre armrest - less said the better. Its completely useless as an arm rest (I'm about 5' 11''). I have the same feedback about the Hexa armrest as well btw.
• Gear is notchy. There were a couple of places where I had to shift down quickly when executing hair-pin bends on a hill run and got nervous since the gear won't slot into place suddenly.
• Overall, I did not feel like the interiors are anything premium at all. Some pf the plastics are just obnoxious - the cup holder on the right of the steering as an example.
• Blind spots do exist and make their presence felt in mountains when taking bends

(No offence guys)

What I loved -

• Power mode transforms the Crysta into a beast
• Commanding position and road visibility was awesome
• Driving and rider comfort needs a mention - not a single painful muscle in the body after the drive (except for the shoulder muscles due to that tight hydraulic steering). In fact, I did the entire return journey without a single break.

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by amalji

1. AT is better than MT on hilly terrain both in terms of gearbox durability and utility. This is because of a combination of fluid coupling in an AT torque converter and the phenomenon of torque multiplication which allows you to get out of tricky inclines smooth without making the engine cry.

Don't agree. The torque converter multiplication is already accounted for when the gear ratios are designed. For MT the first gear ratio is usually lower because of this. At low speed the torque converter will slip and the engine will actually run at a higher RPM compared to a MT for the same speed. In MT you can use engine braking more effectively which is very useful in hill driving.

[haisaikat]

Originally Posted by rovingeye

Steering is way too tight and gives your arms and shoulder good bit of exercise
.
Gear is notchy. There were a couple of places where I had to shift down quickly when executing hair-pin bends on a hill run and got nervous since the gear won't slot into place suddenly
.
Overall, I did not feel like the interiors are anything premium at all. Some pf the plastics are just obnoxious

I looked at your post in the Avis rental thread and could relate this is a rental, I am guessing it's 2.4 diesel you rented but depending on which variant would depend on the interiors. Base variants are less than basic unless topped up aftermarket with add ons.

Regarding your gear shift issue, it has been reported earlier on this thread that for lower gears you have to push down the clutch all the way down. I see from your profile that you own Hyundai's and hatchbacks all the way and unless it's not up-to-date let me tell you that Hyundai's spoil your habbit by allowing gears changes in just half clutch, me too on same boat. So I am guessing that this clubbed with the not so well serviced commercial car with 75k on odo made this outcome. Notchy lower gear issues have eased out with further service and getting used to right way of shift with the Crysta is what multiple owners have reported on this thread. Also if you drove this car for first time and took it directly to hills then this may be another aspect to consider, we all need our time to get ourselves seasoned with new machines.

Originally Posted by JediKnight

Don't agree. The torque converter multiplication is already accounted for when the gear ratios are designed. For MT the first gear ratio is usually lower because of this. At low speed the torque converter will slip and the engine will actually run at a higher RPM compared to a MT for the same speed. In MT you can use engine braking more effectively which is very useful in hill driving.

Originally Posted by amalji

1. Low end torque is much better on the diesel than on petrol. It's a big engine small turbo combo.
2. AT is better than MT on hilly terrain both in terms of gearbox durability and utility. This is because of a combination of fluid coupling in an AT torque converter and the phenomenon of torque multiplication which allows you to get out of tricky inclines smooth without making the engine cry.

To both of you on this aspect, I found following regarding low end torques online

1. I was able to find this link that has the 1GD (2.8 L) diesel torque curve and it seems to be for the higher tuned version for the fortuner, from this it is evident that at starting rpms only we have 200nm+ torque

https://www.toyota-gib.com/eng/vehic...s/engines.html




2. In the same link as above you will also notice that the 2GD 2.4 litres version torque curve is also present and it's as below showing similar 200nm+ torque at startup.



3. For the 2TR-FE 2.7 litres petrol engine the peak torque is 245 NM but I am unable to find anywhere a similar torque curve for it but it seems where the diesel starts ( consider the lower tuned version in Innova, ) it should be as powerful or more than initial torque of petrol.

So diesel will have advantage as it seems for hill climb, even forgetting naturally aspirated engine may be at slight disadvantage with lack of Air as against artificially drawn air as in case of turbo diesel.

However not sure about AT vs MT. Any more information?

[amalji]

Originally Posted by haisaikat

1. I was able to find this link that has the 1GD (2.8 L) diesel torque curve and it seems to be for the higher tuned version for the fortuner, from this it is evident that at starting rpms only we have 200nm+ torque

Thank you for sharing the torque curve for the Fortuner's 1GD. Innova's 1 GD torque curve seems to be the same and the only difference is that it is capped at 360 Nm torque. If you check the Fortuner torque curve for values at 1200 rpms and 3400 rpms, it will be close to 360 Nm.

Originally Posted by haisaikat

However not sure about AT vs MT. Any more information?

Originally Posted by JediKnight

Don't agree. The torque converter multiplication is already accounted for when the gear ratios are designed. For MT the first gear ratio is usually lower because of this. At low speed the torque converter will slip and the engine will actually run at a higher RPM compared to a MT for the same speed. In MT you can use engine braking more effectively which is very useful in hill driving.

It's not the torque multiplication in isolation that I was referring to. It's the combined effect of torque multiplication and fluid coupling ( meaning loosely coupled and hence engine can rotate easily at a different speed from the theoretical gear ratio adjusted speed with respect to the tyres. There is no burning of clutch involved here. )

Regardless, it's not like automatic is better than manual in every offroad conditions. But, it's certainly better in most off road like conditions than a manual. This is more so for the soft off road cases where an Innova is likely to encounter.

Check out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE_NMaIL5IQ

to see what I'm referring to.

Now, forget the theory. I have driven manuals all my life. ( 19 years and 3 lakhs+ kms ) and a significant enough drive on the tricky roads of western ghats. Now, I've driven the Crysta automatic for an year and 27,000 kms. For the typical hill drive, I'll any day prefer a torque converter automatic over a manual. You have lots of control with the fluid coupling of an AT gearbox.

[haisaikat]

Originally Posted by amalji

Thank you for sharing the torque curve for the Fortuner's 1GD. Innova's 1 GD torque curve seems to be the same and the only difference is that it is capped at 360 Nm torque. If you check the Fortuner torque curve for values at 1200 rpms and 3400 rpms, it will be close to 360 Nm.

Did you notice one interesting difference? I know these are the tuned up version for the Fortuner / Hilux models but the 2.4 / 2GD engine has a higher idling RPM (start of the curve) and marginally higher low end torque / power than the 2.8/ 1GD version. May be that is the reason clubbed with MT gear why the 2.4 version is more fun to drive as some of the BHPian owners have reported. Just my interpretation.

Originally Posted by amalji

It's not the torque multiplication in isolation that I was referring to. It's the combined effect of torque multiplication and fluid coupling ( meaning loosely coupled and hence engine can rotate easily at a different speed from the theoretical gear ratio adjusted speed with respect to the tyres. There is no burning of clutch involved here. )

If I may interpret the above in my own way, what you are saying is that in the Innova AT Diesel, if I am trying to move forward on a off road condition and for some reason the current RPM is not delivering the torque / power to accomplish the task and I press the gas pedal even down that will allow taking more power and may be torque from the engine without making the gears wear out trying to make the wheels move?

Originally Posted by amalji

Regardless, it's not like automatic is better than manual in every offroad conditions. But, it's certainly better in most off road like conditions than a manual. This is more so for the soft off road cases where an Innova is likely to encounter.


Check out the video to see what I'm referring to.

I watched the video, very informative, many thanks for sharing. Even it does say that there is no wear on AT as compared to MT. One alarming observation, if battery dies or the gear box has a problem we have to tow the car, no option to jump start it. Not sure if we can use the sport mode in any way to avoid this. Does this apply for Innova too?

Originally Posted by amalji

Now, forget the theory. I have driven manuals all my life. ( 19 years and 3 lakhs+ kms ) and a significant enough drive on the tricky roads of western ghats. Now, I've driven the Crysta automatic for an year and 27,000 kms. For the typical hill drive, I'll any day prefer a torque converter automatic over a manual. You have lots of control with the fluid coupling of an AT gearbox.

That is what I call a valuable first hand input from the owner. Thanks for sharing

[4x4addict]

Regarding Automatic VS Manual in the hills, let me add my 2 cents, cause I live in the Hills. In general, I will never by a new car with Manual, unless ofcourse it is a sports car. I always prefer automatics (either good torque convertor or DSG, but not AMT/AGS).



However in the hills, this is the problem I face. As you come into a hair-pin bend, you take your foot off the accelerator. The automatic doesn't know that you need to power up as soon as you clear the bend and since your foot is off the accelerator, it assumes that you are are coasting and upshifts. Once you take the bend and power up, the car is in a taller gear than required and then there is the lag before ECM realizes and downshifts. I find this extremely annoying. Whereas with a manual car, I know the gear I need to be in and change before the hair-pin bend, so that I can power out of this situation properly.


For automatics with manual mode, you can to some extend over come this by getting into the right gear before the bend.

[vinaydas]

Toyota seems to have updated the accessories for the Innova and fortuner.


There's a new "Multi terrain camera" , which seems like a 360 camera setup.


Any idea on the costs for this ?

[penpavan]

Hi guys I have a strange observation about cabin sultriness in Crysta.
I have used other cars but as soon as I step into Crysta I start sweating almost immediately. Even when car is parked in my basement which is a covered parking area. I feel immense hotness and I must start AC immediately. This is true even at night.

Is it only me or anyone else has experienced this? I have another car (Polo) which I can drive for about 5 minutes without AC before I start feeling some sultriness, in the same climate conditions. So I guess its not anything with my body, its with the car. (Seat fabric? Plastics?) I'd be keen to know if anyone else felt the same.

[nsbhagwat]

Hi, what is the seat cover material? Art leather, PU or genuine leather?
Do both cars share the same parking slot or are they spaced apart? If different, are there any heavy vehicles with a large engine or say a generator nearby that could be the source of heat?

Regards
Nikhil

[penpavan]

Originally Posted by nsbhagwat

Hi, what is the seat cover material? Art leather, PU or genuine leather?
Do both cars share the same parking slot or are they spaced apart? If different, are there any heavy vehicles with a large engine or say a generator nearby that could be the source of heat?

Regards
Nikhil

Its a GX AT variant so fabric seats. Yes same parking, parked side by side. No other factors you mentioned. Thanks

[rovingeye]

Just filled a few forms on dealer websites for a test drive of the ZX AT. Been about 3 hours - no call, nothing. Absolute silence.

Is there a lull/slowdown in the auto industry? Nope, if you ask Toyota!!