[Torquedo]

Well well well, my hands were itching to share this experience, it happened on Friday and I got busy over the weekend, consequentially posting today -

Tata quality issues have indeed cropped up on my Hexa

Friday, there was an unusually heavy downpour in Delhi, I was driving back from work enjoying the rains and the wipers were doing a perfect job, when suddenly 20 odd kms from my place, they stopped working.

There was a humming noise from the motor but the wiper were jammed and would simply not work and it had already started to get dark.

I was bang in the middle of the traffic with no visibility of what was happening ahead, with the location that I was in, there was no point waiting for the RSA to arrive, so I drove through the thick NCR traffic to the showroom where I got my Hexa from.

Once there, I gave them an earful that what quality checks does Tata get into, which auto ancillary providers do they hire for parts.

Called up the RSA, the technician came with no tools and said the wiper motor has given up and needs to be replaced, my first question was, on a 1200 kms, a month old vehicle how can such important things give up !!

He looked at me and as I expected, sheepishly said, it happens at times and I was Oh Man !! don't know what's in store for the future.

From the moment, he mentioned that the motor had given up, I was dead sure that TML would not a have one in stock and come Saturday when I went to the Service center to get it fixed, it was not in stock.

They have ordered one from Pune, the Service GM said, it shall be there on Monday, I shall ring him today to get a status check.

This is baffling for me after owning some not so famous cars in the past like the Optra Magnum 2.0, Ford Figo that the motor gave up in a months ownership, had I been in the hills with my family, I have no clue what would have transpired.

To cut the long story short -

1) What QC's does Tata ensure that parts don't fail prematurely, I mean, what is the point in providing leather on the dashboard when I am stranded in the middle of the road driving at 5-10 KMPH through the traffic tailing other cars with no side view.

2) Whom does Tata source the parts from ?? They ought to change their ancillary providers. What is point in having a Harmon system in your car when belt might snapped off.

To sum it up, Tata does provide maximum per sq ft of the road space for the money that you plonk but I have my reservations now if you shall use that space in the middle of the road driving the vehicle or being stranded on the shoulder watching the Datsuns/PAL's blaze all the way to glory.

Tata needs to improve the quality of "move-able" parts in their vehicles, simply the audio system and better interiors are not gonna win them the market share that they are aiming at.

[vinodvayyat]

Originally Posted by Torquedo

Tata quality issues have indeed cropped up on my Hexa

Were you able to get it checked that it is not a fuse blow? If it is indeed the motor, did water seep into the motor?

Chill mate. Wishing your Hexa a happy recovery. We have heard of vehicles getting stall conditions within weeks of delivery - this is much smaller in scale. Hope this is a one-off incident of its kind for Hexa.

[Torquedo]

Originally Posted by vinodvayyat

Were you able to get it checked that it is not a fuse blow? If it is indeed the motor, did water seep into the motor?

Chill mate. Wishing your Hexa a happy recovery. We have heard of vehicles getting stall conditions within weeks of delivery - this is much smaller in scale. Hope this is a one-off incident of its kind for Hexa.

Thanks for the wishes, Vinod.

Yes, the fuse was checked, it indeed is the motor getting conked off.

I am hoping that this was just the one off incident on my Hexa and nothing else crops up in the years to come.

[n.devdath]

While I can live with a, presumably one-off instance, of the wiper motor failing, it is this kind of support that ticks me off...

Originally Posted by Torquedo

Called up the RSA, the technician came with no tools and said the wiper motor has given up and needs to be replaced,

Coupled by this kind of Inventory Management for their flagship product.

Originally Posted by Torquedo

I went to the Service center to get it fixed, it was not in stock.

Really TML? Supply Chain also??

Originally Posted by Torquedo

They have ordered one from Pune, the Service GM said, it shall be there on Monday, I shall ring him today to get a status check.

[Ranga]

TATA & Mahindra has a long way to go. Its like they are catching up and suddenly we read one of this kind of failures . This clearly raises doubts if we can invest 20Lakhs+ in a vehicle which can be niggle free for 5+ years . ( Compared to a Japanese )

None of the above have cropped up in my 14 year old Santro

What i have observed having driven a Mahindra ( which might also apply to a TATA ) as both use the same 3rd party suppliers

1. Very inferior suppliers used for many parts
2. Air conditioning is by BHYER in a Scorpio ,( Can't design electronics around it when they use the best OEM partner ) Will not last 100K Kms when compared to a Toyota ..
3. Power windows will not work more then 45K Kms
4. Clutch will surely fail less then 50K Kms
5. Paint job is a touch and go
6. Sensors will surely fail ( Now i understand why a Toyota does not provide fancy sensors even in a Fortuner )

[prasanna_indaje]

Originally Posted by Ranga

TATA & Mahindra has a long way to go. Its like they are catching up and suddenly we read one of this kind of failures . This clearly raises doubts if we can invest 20Lakhs+ in a vehicle which can be niggle free for 5+ years . ( Compared to a Japanese )

None of the above have cropped up in my 14 year old Santro

What i have observed having driven a Mahindra ( which might also apply to a TATA ) as both use the same 3rd party suppliers

1. Very inferior suppliers used for many parts
2. Air conditioning is by BHYER in a Scorpio ,( Can't design electronics around it when they use the best OEM partner ) Will not last 100K Kms when compared to a Toyota ..
3. Power windows will not work more then 45K Kms
4. Clutch will surely fail less then 50K Kms
5. Paint job is a touch and go
6. Sensors will surely fail ( Now i understand why a Toyota does not provide fancy sensors even in a Fortuner )

I agree with these observations, mostly.
However wiper motor of my Santro Xing AT failed after 11 years of usage and finding replacement was quite a task. And HASS guys quoted almost 10 k for the motor. But sourcing the same was a problem. Finally I had to go for a replica from JC road for a fraction of cost quoted by HASS.

Let's hope this is one off incident , and the issue is sorted out at the earliest.

[keeprevving]

Originally Posted by Ranga

TATA & Mahindra has a long way to go. Its like they are catching up and suddenly we read one of this kind of failures . This clearly raises doubts if we can invest 20Lakhs+ in a vehicle which can be niggle free for 5+ years . ( Compared to a Japanese )

None of the above have cropped up in my 14 year old Santro

What i have observed having driven a Mahindra ( which might also apply to a TATA ) as both use the same 3rd party suppliers

1. Very inferior suppliers used for many parts
2. Air conditioning is by BHYER in a Scorpio ,( Can't design electronics around it when they use the best OEM partner ) Will not last 100K Kms when compared to a Toyota ..
3. Power windows will not work more then 45K Kms
4. Clutch will surely fail less then 50K Kms
5. Paint job is a touch and go
6. Sensors will surely fail ( Now i understand why a Toyota does not provide fancy sensors even in a Fortuner )

I simply don't agree to your statements. I feel they are exaggerated. Let me share my views, and it comes from my experience of ownership of Tata Indica DLS V2, 2001 make.

1. My air conditioner's compressor gave up after covering 1,85,000kms/16th year of ownership. Now on new OEM compressor.

2. My OEM clutch plate was changed at 1,25,000kms. The second one has already covered 80,000kms and still has a long way to go.

3. Wiper motors is working as it did 16 years ago. No issues whatsoever.

4. My car still retains the original body paint, and let me tell you, without being partial - Tata cars have the best paint quality. My 2012 Honda City, Alto have inferior paint.

In all these years, all it has asked me is to change engine oil and filters religiously. Very reliable, at least for me. I take good care of her, she reciprocates the same. I have never owned a Mahindra ever, so it wont be right to make a comment.

The Hexa wiper issue is just one off problem faced by the customer. That doesn't make Hexa unreliable.

Regarding Toyota, they have a bunch of cheats at Espirit Toyota, Cuttack. My cousin's Innova has starting issue. ASC quoted 85000/- to set things right. It was done for Rs. 9000/- at a FNG. Meanwhile, Toyota advisor, through common contacts came to know about our family. He called up, said " Saar, if I knew earlier, I would have replaced the parts with some other cars. All you had to pay was Rs. 4000-5000/-. For no reason, you spent Rs.9000 at FNG."

So the famed Toyota service goodwill was in tatters. Will I buy a Toyota? Yes, why not, but will be cautious of such practices. This actually happens in all ASCs.

[Ranga]

I would suggest we compare apples to apples .Our topic of discussion is a MUV /SUV from say TATA . The Clutch plate of a normal Indica cannot be compared to a SUV. The whole discussion is how reliable is a TATA or a Mahindra brand while investing 20Lakhs + . I am not saying quality should be bad on a Indica at the same time . The more you pay for the car , the higher the expectations .

Originally Posted by keeprevving

I simply don't agree to your statements. I feel they are exaggerated. Let me share my views, and it comes from my experience of ownership of Tata Indica DLS V2, 2001 make.

1. My air conditioner's compressor gave up after covering 1,85,000kms/16th year of ownership. Now on new OEM compressor.

2. My OEM clutch plate was changed at 1,25,000kms. The second one has already covered 80,000kms and still has a long way to go.

3. Wiper motors is working as it did 16 years ago. No issues whatsoever.

4. My car still retains the original body paint, and let me tell you, without being partial - Tata cars have the best paint quality. My 2012 Honda City, Alto have inferior paint.

In all these years, all it has asked me is to change engine oil and filters religiously. Very reliable, at least for me. I take good care of her, she reciprocates the same. I have never owned a Mahindra ever, so it wont be right to make a comment.

The Hexa wiper issue is just one off problem faced by the customer. That doesn't make Hexa unreliable.

[keeprevving]

Originally Posted by Ranga

I would suggest we compare apples to apples .

Originally Posted by Ranga

None of the above have cropped up in my 14 year old Santro

If you can bring a Santro while discussing about MUV/SUV, I too can bring in my humble Indica to back a brand that has served me well. As far as I know, Santro was neither a MUV/SUV, at least in India. So please, compare Apples to Apples, and stick to it.

[abhi7013]

Originally Posted by Ranga

I would suggest we compare apples to apples

In which case you should never have brought up your santro. And since you have, i don't see why we shouldn't bring in the indica/indigo.

Anyways, my santro is 12 years old and is still serving us quite well. But the hyundai service, atleast for the Santro is very pathetic. With the radiator fan stopping in middle of the road and fumes coming from under the bonnet, the personnel had no clue as to what had happened. Add to that the lethargic staff.
In this case, it's just the wiper motor going kaput, but yes, it's not justifiable in a new car.

That doesn't warrant giving one off examples of failures. There are people who have easily done over a lakh kilometres in their TATAs too. So let's not get into exaggeration of issues with other brands and conclude TATA and Mahindra are inferior.

I have seen new Crystas with burnt clutch plates and water leaking from the roof within just 6 months of ownership. What would you say to that?

I really hope it's a one off case cause when it comes to TATA, people get down to pointing fingers and stereotyping real quickly.
Whereas tyre bursts and major recalls from toyota with a decreased rim size is seen as proactive response by the same folks!

[Ranga]

End of the day

1. Japanese/ Korean cars are expensive . Reliable, expensive compared to a India make .
2. India cars have more features . Reliability is a touch and miss. Cheaper then India make. Can't keep cars for 5 + years without niggles .Some spares are easily available through 3rd party distributors and we can get work done outside other then the authorized after sales . ( Spares are 40-60% cheaper )
3. The cost of service for TATA & Mahindra is higher when compared to peers .
4. Either you pay higher for the CAR manufacturer or we pay to the after sales & service centers ( Innova is a exception where service is now for 5K Kms !!!)
5. The experience you have in a after sales service is more controllable act. With lot of Team BHP members around , one cannot survive for long cheating people . By trial and error we all get the best service center to touch our cars .

Originally Posted by keeprevving

I simply don't agree to your statements. I feel they are exaggerated. Let me share my views, and it comes from my experience of ownership of Tata Indica DLS V2, 2001 make.

1. My air conditioner's compressor gave up after covering 1,85,000kms/16th year of ownership. Now on new OEM compressor.

2. My OEM clutch plate was changed at 1,25,000kms. The second one has already covered 80,000kms and still has a long way to go.

3. Wiper motors is working as it did 16 years ago. No issues whatsoever.

4. My car still retains the original body paint, and let me tell you, without being partial - Tata cars have the best paint quality. My 2012 Honda City, Alto have inferior paint.

In all these years, all it has asked me is to change engine oil and filters religiously. Very reliable, at least for me. I take good care of her, she reciprocates the same. I have never owned a Mahindra ever, so it wont be right to make a comment.

The Hexa wiper issue is just one off problem faced by the customer. That doesn't make Hexa unreliable.

Originally Posted by keeprevving

I simply don't agree to your statements. I feel they are exaggerated. Let me share my views, and it comes from my experience of ownership of Tata Indica DLS V2, 2001 make.

1. My air conditioner's compressor gave up after covering 1,85,000kms/16th year of ownership. Now on new OEM compressor.

2. My OEM clutch plate was changed at 1,25,000kms. The second one has already covered 80,000kms and still has a long way to go.

3. Wiper motors is working as it did 16 years ago. No issues whatsoever.

4. My car still retains the original body paint, and let me tell you, without being partial - Tata cars have the best paint quality. My 2012 Honda City, Alto have inferior paint.

In all these years, all it has asked me is to change engine oil and filters religiously. Very reliable, at least for me. I take good care of her, she reciprocates the same. I have never owned a Mahindra ever, so it wont be right to make a comment.

The Hexa wiper issue is just one off problem faced by the customer. That doesn't make Hexa unreliable.

Regarding Toyota, they have a bunch of cheats at Espirit Toyota, Cuttack. My cousin's Innova has starting issue. ASC quoted 85000/- to set things right. It was done for Rs. 9000/- at a FNG. Meanwhile, Toyota advisor, through common contacts came to know about our family. He called up, said " Saar, if I knew earlier, I would have replaced the parts with some other cars. All you had to pay was Rs. 4000-5000/-. For no reason, you spent Rs.9000 at FNG."

So the famed Toyota service goodwill was in tatters. Will I buy a Toyota? Yes, why not, but will be cautious of such practices. This actually happens in all ASCs.

[vinodvayyat]

Originally Posted by Ranga

TATA & Mahindra has a long way to go. Its like they are catching up and suddenly we read one of this kind of failures . This clearly raises doubts if we can invest 20Lakhs+ in a vehicle which can be niggle free for 5+ years . ( Compared to a Japanese )

It sends a very wrong message to the Hexa aspirants when we generalize and come to conclusions based on one or two incidents - I have booked a Hexa and waiting currently for the delivery. I booked the vehicle after going through TeamBHP review and numerous feedbacks about the vehicle in this forum and in my research I have not come across any major incidents reported since the product launch (barring a Turbo noise incident and this wiper motor issue).

How many such niggles are you aware of till date about Hexa? - Please back your thoughts with references - that will be a constructive way to discuss this issue.

[theexperthand]

Originally Posted by Ranga

None of the above have cropped up in my 14 year old Santro

On one hand, you are comparing your experience with Santro to Scorpio and hexa, while on the other hand:

Originally Posted by Ranga

I would suggest we compare apples to apples .Our topic of discussion is a MUV /SUV from say TATA . The Clutch plate of a normal Indica cannot be compared to a SUV.

What i have observed having driven a Mahindra ( which might also apply to a TATA ) as both use the same 3rd party suppliers

While this may be entirely the case (as with many other manufactures), I do not see it as a problem as long as the quality aspects are met.

2. Air conditioning is by BHYER in a Scorpio ,( Can't design electronics around it when they use the best OEM partner ) Will not last 100K Kms when compared to a Toyota ..

The correct company name is BEHR and the full name of the company is Behr Hella Service GmbH. They are a part of Hella group and they even supplies to Mercedes group, IIRC. So, they are no way inferior to Delphi brand used by Toyota.

3. Power windows will not work more then 45K Kms
4. Clutch will surely fail less then 50K Kms
5. Paint job is a touch and go

Curious to know how you arrived at these decisive figures. I have a Tata Vista which have done close to 1L and yet to change the clutch or any power window switches.

6. Sensors will surely fail ( Now i understand why a Toyota does not provide fancy sensors even in a Fortuner )

Can you please define what you mean by 'fancy sensors'? No modern engine or a car can work without employing sensors - there are a plethora of sensors in each and every modern car on the road today.

If you still feel Japanese cars do not have niggles, may I suggest you to read up the Innova niggles thread and City niggles thread, hosted in our own Team Bhp?

While I completely understand that it is totally unacceptable for the wiper motor to fail and the unavailability of the part in the warehouse, I would still treat this as a one off till I get to see\read more experiences of components failing, than just take this as an example of why not to invest your 20L in Tata\Mahindra.

And Oh, before writing off Mahindra\Tata, you may please check up on a very 'little' run Mahindra, driven by a gentleman known better as HVK.

--Anoop

[Ranga]

I am commenting from the angle of

1. All scorpios bought in 2009 had

a.Clutch problem ( Many replaced under warranty )
b. Power windows ( Known failures where many were replaced under warranty
c. sensor problems ( Many reported )

I have read Toyoto Innova Leak issues here in Team bhp. But it might one of its kind. I am reporting about quality issues where the entire batch sold during the time frame where spares were replaced in above conditions. (Accepted by Mahindra sales as a known problem or asked to replace from Mahindra company itself )

The issue or the argument today is are we ready to invest 20Lakhs + for a Mahindra or a Hexa without niggles ??

Originally Posted by abhi7013

In which case you should never have brought up your santro. And since you have, i don't see why we shouldn't bring in the indica/indigo.

Anyways, my santro is 12 years old and is still serving us quite well. But the hyundai service, atleast for the Santro is very pathetic. With the radiator fan stopping in middle of the road and fumes coming from under the bonnet, the personnel had no clue as to what had happened. Add to that the lethargic staff.
In this case, it's just the wiper motor going kaput, but yes, it's not justifiable in a new car.

That doesn't warrant giving one off examples of failures. There are people who have easily done over a lakh kilometres in their TATAs too. So let's not get into exaggeration of issues with other brands and conclude TATA and Mahindra are inferior.

I have seen new Crystas with burnt clutch plates and water leaking from the roof within just 6 months of ownership. What would you say to that?

I really hope it's a one off case cause when it comes to TATA, people get down to pointing fingers and stereotyping real quickly.
Whereas tyre bursts and major recalls from toyota with a decreased rim size is seen as proactive response by the same folks!

[arif_t01]

A large tree fell on a vehicle. If we see the size of the tree & the fact that it has fallen fully into it, we would expect a Total loss. But what happened was entirely different. Because the vehicle was none other than TATA HEXA. The A-Pillar, B-Pillar & C-Pillar stood strong. Hence the impact did not get into the cabin area. Imagine if it was any other vehicle.

Source: Received in WhatsApp.