[r0nit7]

Originally Posted by VeeEight

I see from the Tata’s web site that both ESP and TC are not available on the XTA variant - while I am surprised as to how Tata could have missed such a safety measure - in your experiences , have you felt the absence of these to be a concern or the mechanics of this vehicle adequately compensate ? Please advise - Thank you

These are not utility features which you are going to use everyday so you are not going to miss them, you won't even know these exist just like airbags, but just like an airbag - you can't quantify the importance of these features in the off chance the need arises of their use in an emergency situation.

Originally Posted by Varun_HexaGuy

I think I can answer your question. Personally, I feel that the ESP and TC are some important features which are good to have. But, personally this features are mere safety features which can be only experienced in a state of emergency and the XTA anyways comes with 6-Airbags and ABS with EBD as standard.

Contradictory statement highlighted in bold

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by r0nit7

These are not utility features which you are going to use everyday so you are not going to miss them, you won't even know these exist just like airbags, but just like an airbag - you can't quantify the importance of these features in the off chance the need arises of their use in an emergency situation.

Since you have raised this point, I request you to do a small experiment on a rough road or rough patch:

Take Hexa XT and accelerate it as hard as possible and see the behavior of the vehicle
Take a Hexa XTA on the same patch and accelerate it as hard as possible

Both the cars must have only one or two occupants and I request you just not to try to steer the XTA in any direction, or repeat the experiment in a ground and accelerate as hard as possible, steer the XT but don't do to XTA; I have tried both - you will understand the functionality and usage of ESP and TCS within a second.

When the entire 400 nm kicks in, the rear wheels literally beg for grip on the Hexa XTA while on the loose surface, on the other hand, the XT maintains the composure because TCS makes sure that there is no wheel spin or slip.

You know how much difference the presence or absence of ESP and TCS does actually make while you are traversing a snow covered mountain or a low grip surface? They aren't just safety features these are driver assist technologies whose purpose is to make sure that things never go into the situation where the safety of ABS or airbags is required to be used.

Here are a couple of words written by me only in another forum here. I formed this opinion after having experienced the Hexa MT and AT for more than 3000 kilometers combined.

Look at the revvs shooting up and you will fell in instant love with your Hexa. That’s when Hexa got caught actually. You listening Tata Motors? HEXA AT VERY BADLY NEEDS ESP. It was actually slight loose surface and I had to work real hard just to make sure that my tail doesn’t go out, still it kept loosing the grip as there is over 2500 Kgs of force going to the road through those tyres (Tata engineers claimed that in Boeing pulling video) after torque multiplication through gears. So, loose surface driving can easily get tricky if you don’t have seven passengers in your Hexa AT and you are in a mood of driving hard, I personally felt that the tyres beg for grip as they are simply puny in front of 400 Nm of torque after the multiplication through gears, and the surface is not hard enough.

[apachelongbow]

Good example above. However, why on earth will someone accelerate hard on loose soil, gravel, slush or snow? Most logical way to drive on these surfaces is to be slow and steady with low revs to gain traction until out of such areas.
I have driven out of an oil spilled concrete surface on a 4×2 Storme so I do know what I am saying here.
I would love to have esp and csc in the xta, but its not deal breaker if one knows how to drive on different surfaces. Between the sheer refinement and convenience of the autobox and the bag of tricks on the manual, i will still choose the auto.

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by VKumar

Take Hexa XT and accelerate it as hard as possible and see the behavior of the vehicle
Take a Hexa XTA on the same patch and accelerate it as hard as possible

If the surface is loose, ideally you are going to be slow and give the vehicle as much traction as possible. Revving it hard is only going to make it lose traction.

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

Good example above. However, why on earth will someone accelerate hard on loose soil, gravel, slush or snow? Most logical way to drive on these surfaces is to be slow and steady with low revs to gain traction until out of such areas.
I have driven out of an oil spilled concrete surface on a 4×2 Storme so I do know what I am saying here.
I would love to have esp and csc in the xta, but its not deal breaker if one knows how to drive on different surfaces. Between the sheer refinement and convenience of the autobox and the bag of tricks on the manual, i will still choose the auto.

I agree. I have driven the Sierra in good slush in the middle of the jungle during a persistent drizzle. We hadn't heard of any car this side (cost) having ESP or CSC or ABS or Airbags or even raw power. We did make out just fine.

All these added features are indeed welcome, but at the risk of getting rejected due to pricing (happened with the Aria), Tata would have played it safe. As acceptance of the Hexa goes up, I'm sure Tata would come up with these features on the AT too. Maybe as a Hexa refresh.

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

Most logical way to drive on these surfaces is to be slow and steady with low revs to gain traction until out of such areas.

Originally Posted by discoverwild

If the surface is loose, ideally you are going to be slow and give the vehicle as much traction as possible. Revving it hard is only going to make it lose traction.

There are two kind of situations, one is which you guys have stated, it is absolutely right and agreeable. Second situation is the one where it is important to maintain the momentum. Situations like crossing slush or water wading or even the places where one rear wheel loses traction, say ice or snow, definitely these situations can also be dealt without ESP and TCS, but having these driver assist tech in place is better than not having them. Here on TBHP, most of the people are well experienced, good at driving and since they share a lot with each other, so most are well aware of the tricks and techniques; unfortunately most of the owners are non BHPians and very few of them are actually aware of such tips and tricks.

If you guys ever get to see any inexperienced driver, they mostly spin the hell out of the wheels on the loose surface and then they blame their SUV for being unable to come out of the pit or slush, for such people, it is better to have ESP and TCS. There I put my point again, with 2500 kgs of force being transferred to road via rear wheels or say the 400 nm of torque that is further multiplied by the gearbox, needs to be controlled at points, if the driver is unable to, then electronics should.

BTW, I got a chance to be chauffeured in an XUV and man, I felt like it is the worst rear seat to travel if I compare Hexa, Crysta and XUV. It really feels like I am sitting at least a foot higher than the driver (that makes me feel very uncomfy in any car), the suspension is far from absorbent and the seat felt a bit on the firm as well as slippery too to me

That said, I have even owned one in past and those days XUV felt very good, but after having experienced Hexa and Crysta, dare I say; XUV is nowhere close in overall driving or seating comfort, other than the performance, there is absolutely nothing else the XUV has on offer. So, after having experienced Hexa and XUV side by side, I would like to change my statement from:

"XUV is a more VFM choice and offers a lot more"

to

"Now XUV feels a bit outdated and lower on comfort, hence the premium of a lac that Tata asks over XUV or lack of features as compared to XUV are well justified"

I am mostly the driver or chauffeur driven person (less experience of front left seat), and hence very particular when it comes to the seats. I rate the Crysta captain seats on the top, Hexa closely second and XUV far back now. But yes, the legroom of Hexa is definitely lesser than that in XUV, still, that I can live with but the captains eats of Hexa, when coupled to the opulent ride quality, just make for the most comfortable option (Crysta seats are better but ride isnt).

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by VKumar

There are two kind of situations, one is which you guys have stated, it is absolutely right and agreeable. Second situation is the one where it is important to maintain the momentum. Situations like crossing slush or water wading or even the places where one rear wheel loses traction, say ice or snow, definitely these situations can also be dealt without ESP and TCS, but having these driver assist tech in place is better than not having them. Here on TBHP, most of the people are well experienced, good at driving and since they share a lot with each other, so most are well aware of the tricks and techniques; unfortunately most of the owners are non BHPians and very few of them are actually aware of such tips and tricks.

I agree with you. Ideally they should launch a xta 4×4 with all safety features incorporated. I guess a premium of a lac or 1.5 lac over 4×4 is justified in this case. Atleast the buying public must have an option to choose from.

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

[bhpfaninblr]

The Hexa is a very good car indeed. Waiting to see the 2.0 Multijet of Fiat in it. That would make the car really awesome. They talk of all imported parts in the Hexa in the advertisements - the engine is the key.

[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr

The Hexa is a very good car indeed. Waiting to see the 2.0 Multijet of Fiat in it. That would make the car really awesome. They talk of all imported parts in the Hexa in the advertisements - the engine is the key.

Not needed. The engine in the Hexa feels better than what is offered by the competition- you can try the Zoomcar version to get a feel of it. Safety features may need an import because of the sensors, but the Engine and the Drivetrain are very, very good. Thanks.

[bhpfaninblr]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

Not needed. The engine in the Hexa feels better than what is offered by the competition- you can try the Zoomcar version to get a feel of it. Safety features may need an import because of the sensors, but the Engine and the Drivetrain are very, very good. Thanks.

I was comparing it to the 2.0 multijet. If this engine is better, what ould be the reason for tata signing a deal with fiat to use the latter's multijet for use in cars more expensive than hexa?

[Motard_Blr]

Fifth Gear did a demonstration of ESP a few years ago. It was really eye opening.

https://youtu.be/YuUBeJSYg4o

The US based Insurance institute of highway safety regularly tests vehicle for crash safety in different situations and they explain why SUVs are more prone to rollover crashes.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/ro...-crashes/qanda

Rollovers are much more common for SUVs and pickups than for cars, and more common for SUVs than for pickups. In 2015, 48 percent of SUV occupants killed in crashes were in vehicles that rolled over. In comparison, 43 percent of deaths in pickups and 23 percent of deaths in cars were in rollovers.

Pickups and SUVs tend to be involved in rollovers more frequently than cars largely due to the physical differences of these vehicles. SUVs and pickups are taller than cars and have greater ground clearance, causing their mass to be distributed higher off the road relative to the width of the vehicle. Additional passengers and cargo can increase the center of gravity even more. Other things being equal, a vehicle with a higher center of gravity is more prone to roll over than a lower-riding vehicle. 2

Driver behavior may contribute to the increased rollover involvement rate of SUVs and pickups. Pickups and SUVs are more likely than cars to be driven on rural roads, where rollovers occur more frequently. Lower belt use among pickup occupants 3 means they are more likely to be seriously or fatally injured when rollovers occur.

In my opinion, ESP should be a standard feature in all tall vehicles, such as SUVs and MUVs.

[DieselAddikt]

Originally Posted by bhpfaninblr

I was comparing it to the 2.0 multijet. If this engine is better, what ould be the reason for tata signing a deal with fiat to use the latter's multijet for use in cars more expensive than hexa?

Did they actually do that? I think the 2.2 Varicor would have worked just fine. It is not bad by any means and is getting more and more refined after every iteration.

If they actually did sign the deal to use the 2.0 Multijet, it could be to:
1. Reduce the engine capacity to less than 2L (for pleasing NGT)
2. Upcoming emission norms which they would have found difficult to follow using this 2.2L (just my thought)

Other than that, the engine is perfectly fine for a modern car like Hexa. One might not want to wait for the 2L Multijet to be introduced in the Hexa for him/her to buy it. I mean, there can more reasons for not buying one, like brand image, concerns about reliability etc.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by DieselAddikt

Other than that, the engine is perfectly fine for a modern car like Hexa. One might not want to wait for the 2L Multijet to be introduced in the Hexa for him/her to buy it. I mean, there can more reasons for not buying one, like brand image, concerns about reliability etc.

The 2.2 Variocor is a fantastic and a time tested motor and Hexa is it's best implementation, 160hp/400Nm + the auto box. Excellent combination of performance, economy, refinement, reliability and low maintenance costs. Seriously, it can make the big girl fly, and you still get a genuine 20k km oil change interval. And it runs on regular mineral engine oil! No ripping off in the name of synthetic.

This engine however is not BS6 compliant. This is where the 2.0 MJD comes in. Tata is basically future proofing itself here - it's upcoming new platform will run on the new Fiat sourced engine and will be designed to comply with the upcoming emission norms.

[bhpfaninblr]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

The 2.2 Variocor is a fantastic and a time tested motor and Hexa is it's best implementation, 160hp/400Nm + the auto box. Excellent combination of performance, economy, refinement, reliability and low maintenance costs. Seriously, it can make the big girl fly, and you still get a genuine 20k km oil change interval. And it runs on regular mineral engine oil! No ripping off in the name of synthetic.

This engine however is not BS6 compliant. This is where the 2.0 MJD comes in. Tata is basically future proofing itself here - it's upcoming new platform will run on the new Fiat sourced engine and will be designed to comply with the upcoming emission norms.

Thanks Shreyans for a very comprehensive explanation. Kudos to Tata for building such a nice engine. Whatever their sales #s, they keep innovating for the Indian market and that is great for India

[KK RE Lover]

So curious to know, if the varicor is not bs6 compliant and when that compliance comes into force, what happens?

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by KK RE Lover

So curious to know, if the varicor is not bs6 compliant and when that compliance comes into force, what happens?

Most likely, these all engines will be phased out once BS6 comes into force.

It may also be possible that they are heavily strangulated in a desperate attempt to enforce complaince. Quite like VW's dieselgate fix. But in that case, the outputs will drop significantly and driving experience will be compromised big time.

Off the top of my mind, there is no mass market diesel engine on sale today that can be easily made BS6 complaint.