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Old 5th April 2017, 01:55   #31
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

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Originally Posted by amolathalye View Post
Agreed Hyundai has come a long way in all other departments but why they are still not getting the right feel in the steering. Is it technically so difficult to get it right ? what components/parts or design makes the difference in the feel of the steering. Where Hyundai designers are lacking ?
You should drive the Hyundai Getz, and first-gen Verna, both had fantastic steering feel and stability. There has been much misinformation about Hyundai always having built terrible driving cars and "features" being their only saving grace. Just one drive in a well maintained, stock Getz will show everyone what Hyundai was, at a time (2004) where the Swift had not yet come, the Polo was nowhere close to launch and people had not yet experienced a true European hatch (save for Palio which sold very less), the Getz was a segment changer - it had as much space as the (then) City, was much more fun-to-drive and the steering was fantastic. I find it, arguably more consistent and heavier than the Punto steering with more feedback as well, where the Fiat is better is the suspension setup where it has literally no competition.

Nevertheless the Getz rides nearly flat, is so stable and the steering is so precise that never once have I lost confidence in it. The subsequent models like i20, the successor of Getz and fluidic Verna got electric power steerings, which are all too famous for lacking feel and are too light for comfort. Hyundai did this of course, due to the feverish shift to this EPS across all brands in the interest of fuel efficiency and easy drivability. I've not been happy with any EPS system across any brand, my opinion. Hyundai did take it a bit too far in terms of lightness and numbness but their current-gen models are not even remotely that bad.

As for your question of components/parts required for optimising steering weight/feedback, they are as below :

- Tyre (softer tyres increase grip and steering weight) and wider tyres increase feedback as the tyre has more space to hold.
- Steering rack bushings : soft rubber ones might not last long but give more feedback. Hard rubber bushings won't help transfer the feel, one can change to polyurethane bushings to improve the feel.
- MDPS tuning (mostly possible only at factory) : light steering means bigger motor for steering which in turn means more assistance. More assistance means that the motor robs the steering of some feel (though it depends on where the motor is mounted - rack, pinion or column denoted by REPS, PEPS and CEPS respectively)
- Adjusting caster and camber - not recommended AT ALL, but when played around with the feel does change. This is again best left to the manufacturer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kadanaJ View Post
Have a friend who used to own a Civic, hated it because of that amazing (in my opinion, at least) hydraulic steering. Replaced it with the Fluidic Verna and she's been extremely happy ever since. Interestingly enough, most of the people I know who love the Hyundai steering are all women. Go figure!
Again, its not about men and women, or Hyundai and Honda, its about the basic differences between EPS and HPS. The Honda City has a pretty numb steering as well, as far as the Civic goes I agree, its low-slung, has hydraulic steering and a good engine, all the ingredients for a great feel. Likewise the earlier Hyundais like Santro, Getz and 1st gen Verna had good feel, not the current ones, though much improved. I found the steerings of many European cars like Yeti and Polo very numb compared to Getz and I've driven the Polo 100+ kms, Yeti 200 kms+.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Have to admit, the mass market wants 'efficient' and 'ultra light' steering. Masses do not care too much for 'heavy', 'feel some' hydraulic systems.

It is not that Hyundai does not know how to do a sporty steering. Rather, I would say, they do not want to do this.
A company which is among the best selling manufacturers world wide, and has designed everything from petrol to diesels themselves, dont know how to calibrate a steering? I can't buy this argument.
EXACTLY! Glad you said this.
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Old 5th April 2017, 02:43   #32
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

Fully agree with your points on the Getz. I would've given my left leg for a Getz CRDI if only it had more safety features beyond seatbelts :-).

Gen I Verna not so sure though. Maybe the front suspension was acceptable in those days but the floaty and wallowy rear was not. It was frankly unsafe when at speed on twisty bouncy roads. But both these cars turbo range was to die for :-)
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Old 5th April 2017, 08:02   #33
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

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Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Fully agree with your points on the Getz. I would've given my left leg for a Getz CRDI if only it had more safety features beyond seatbelts :-).

Gen I Verna not so sure though. Maybe the front suspension was acceptable in those days but the floaty and wallowy rear was not. It was frankly unsafe when at speed on twisty bouncy roads. But both these cars turbo range was to die for :-)
The CRDi of the Getz was a torque monster, combine that with the steering and capable Euro-spec chassis and the car had the feel of nitrous kicking in when the turbo spun.

Gen 1 Verna, yes I partly agree because I've been at the back seat of the car and in city range the suspension was made out for comfort, all the undulations and potholes were dismissed so silently that I was amazed, the rear seat also had a curve and back support. I guess they intentionally tuned the suspension that way since many Vernas were used as chauffeur driven city cars. I observed no floatiness upto 80, so one can say that it was adequate for those days, infact the engine was praised so much for its torque and easy drivability that I remember the 1st gen Fiesta (though tuned purely for great stability and feel) was almost DOA thanks to its lesser rear leg room and poor service support in those days.

I agree, Hyundai should've capitalized on their all-round nature of providing good driving, reliable and practical cars, instead they lost the plot with their Kappa (I replace the p's with k's) engines which all have noticeably less torque and grunt, the overly-light steerings and suspensions which felt like rubber bands pulling the chassis up and down on undulations. Things have improved visibly in the current iterations of i10 and i20, Verna is yet to be seen.

I've seen a Terracan with 2+ lakh kilometers on the ODO and only clutch and suspension parts being changed, Getz's too I've seen comfortably cross the 1L mark with stock everything, first gen Tucsons with lakh+ readings and stock. Hyundai is right up there with Toyota, in my view ahead. They simply did a mistake of purposely cutting corners in all their subsequent cars for enhancing profitability and giving the public what they wanted - fuel efficiency and features + they have hiked the cost of service over 50-60% in the decade that I've been driving their vehicles. Hope they see the error of their ways and start going back to fun, torquey cars with ZERO convenience features, the public seem to have a big problem with Hyundai and features. I'm ok as long as the car drives well, never have ever bought a car for its features.
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Old 5th April 2017, 08:07   #34
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

Doesn't look like Hyundai can do anything wrong. A very well rounded and aptly sized car for our roads. Pricing reflects the noncompetitive nature of our market. Not sure it will ever improve given the market size for some of these segments. For me its just looting (to quote our former PM)

If you want to get looted anyway, you would buy the premium ones from Germans !
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Old 5th April 2017, 09:05   #35
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

That was one amazing review with great details. Thanks for sharing with us.


I like the Tucson and it looks well engineered too. Just wish it had the following:
1) AWD like its older namesake. No, no one will take it off-roading. But AWD will give you that confidence for bad-roading or to drive to that difficult to reach resort. And AWD means one can baby the car a bit through the rough patches and still get out unscathed. Don't have use sheer might and risk breaking anything. So, that's a big miss especially for the money Hyundai is asking now.
2) Black interiors like the Creta. What was Hyundai thinking? The all new Elantra gets all black interiors.
3) Less expensive! The asking price is just too much and the base variants are poorly appointed.

I really like the side and rear profile. Was not too comfortable with the front, but I am warming up to that now. Especially in that glorious Star Dust shade showcased in the review here. I still prefer the front end of the Santa Fe, it will look great with just the grille from Tucson.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
You should drive the Hyundai Getz, and first-gen Verna, both had fantastic steering feel and stability. There has been much misinformation about Hyundai always having built terrible driving cars and "features" being their only saving grace.
Ironic as it sounds, I think the best steering we got in a Hyundai was the hydraulic unit in the Santro. I really prefer it to the one from the Getz. And Hyundai took a nose dive from there.
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Old 5th April 2017, 10:15   #36
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

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Originally Posted by chennai-indian View Post
Looks nice but for the price, I would go for the Ford Endevour which is a better SUV in all aspects than this one.
Yes thats what i did. Got a Trend 3.2 Endeavour for 27 lac otr with ongoing discounts. Its so much like a car to drive having upgraded from Elantra. Its extremely refined and has that tough drive feel which really escalates the driving pleasure. Have done close to 5 k on this now and absolute gem on highway and city. Only negative being the fuel consumption which is close to 9. Hyundai seriously got its pricing wrong on this one.

Last edited by GTO : 5th April 2017 at 10:48. Reason: Poorly typed post
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Old 5th April 2017, 10:47   #37
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepu Sharma View Post
Yes thats what i did. Got a Trend 3.2 Endeavour for 27 lac otr with ongoing discounts. Its so much like a car to drive having upgraded from Elantra. Its extremely refined and has that tough drive feel which really escalates the driving pleasure. Have done close to 5 k on this now and absolute gem on highway and city. Only negative being the fuel consumption which is close to 9. Hyundai seriously got its pricing wrong on this one.
I am in a similar situation and I can almost say this Tucson is over priced by 2 to 3 lakhs. Endeavor is VFM package with that macho looks and the stonker of 3.2 liter engine and of course 7 seater configuration. You will not loose too much in terms of fuel cost or resale value as both Hyundai and Ford are in almost similar resale value.

I am just attaching a 'simple' xls analysing the fuel cost which might be of help. If anything I gave amiss pls let me know. Thanks.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx SAIRAM Fuel Cost Analysis.xlsx (12.8 KB, 218 views)

Last edited by GTO : 5th April 2017 at 10:49. Reason: Quoted post edited
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Old 5th April 2017, 11:01   #38
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolathalye View Post
Agreed Hyundai has come a long way in all other departments but why they are still not getting the right feel in the steering.
Actually, Hyundai is getting it right. If you were a manufacturer, who would you listen to?

1% of enthusiasts & auto journalists who want feel, feedback & weight.

99% of the mass market who want a steering that requires as less effort to operate as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amolathalye View Post
Yes but the Endy is too huge in size and can be a nightmare for city drives. Tucson on the other hand can be comfortable in both the worlds.
I agree. While my personal choice would be the Endeavour over the Tucson, the latter is more city-friendly. Not everyone wants to drive a huge, heavy-feeling 7-seater SUV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Theoretically, it's performance & Handling should be much better than the Endy.
If someone has driven both of these machines, they can share the real facts.
Driven both. A Tucson will run rings around an Endeavour. It's faster and handles a lot better too (as is usually the case with car-based vs traditional SUVs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
the price is 2-3 lakhs higher only because they need to avoid cannibalizing the Creta top models.
Great observation - thanks for sharing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
Gen 1 Verna, yes I partly agree because I've been at the back seat of the car and in city range the suspension was made out for comfort, all the undulations and potholes were dismissed so silently that I was amazed
The 1st-gen Verna had the worst suspension in terms of comfort as well. Among the many owners who complained of its boat-like feeling, here's one who types like no other:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Not while being driven.

The Hyundai Verna had soft suspension, but in the back seat, it would make a grown man sea-sick. I would refer to the car as my personal boat.
It was awful. A brake would have ripples and the car would sway for a few seconds before coming to a halt. Bah!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
IMO the Hyundai Verna is designed to have a soft and comfortable suspension, but it handles like a waterbed.
While driving it is not bad, in fact in city driving it can even feel quite comfortable (the suspension, not the terrible Hyundai seats)
but the back seat is another story.

When my driver drives and he brakes, sometimes I feel like throwing up because the back is still rocking. Sometimes when he drives off quickly, I feel I am in a Tom and Jerry Movie where the front zooms off and the back part follows later.
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Old 5th April 2017, 12:01   #39
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

Smart package to look at and I'm sure there will not be many deal breakers for who ever considers buying this thing. Personally for me atleast, it just doesn't have anything WOW for one to plonk that kind of money. Surprised it is selling in triple digits. At least an AWD would have made it more palatable. Im still wondering who is the target segment (non Creta, non Santa Fe, non Fortuner, non Endeavour target) and what would tilt them towards a decision on this car.
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Old 5th April 2017, 12:30   #40
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Angry Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

Hi Fellow BHPians,

I had taken a test drive of the new Tucson almost 3 months back. I was impressed with how quiet and refined the SUV ( is it really an SUV without AWD ?) sounded.
My positives were
1. Good Driving Position and command on road ahead view
2. Easy maneuverability in Bangalore Traffic- the Auto was quick in response.
3. The available bells and whistles
4. The exteriors , the body shape and the alloys- like it better than the Creta

Negatives;

1. price
2 price and price

Felt it was way overpriced.
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Old 6th April 2017, 23:37   #41
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

I have said this before also in another Tucson thread and now saying it again. Had a chance to ride in it in Jordan almost an year ago. It is a good overall package for someone looking for a crossover but Hyundai has priced it way too much. Maybe to avoid cannibalisation of top-end variants of Creta which I feel is again overpriced by about 1.5 - 2 lakhs. It just doesn't have that wow-factor of a 30 lakh rupee car.
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Old 7th April 2017, 00:54   #42
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

Hyundai the brand is creeping up, and how. Well established in sub 20 lac segments, and now they have two models above 20 lac that are hard to ignore. They've been up there with the best in the industry when it comes to the design, fit and finish of the interior. Seeing Tuscons interior, I'm just wondering whether the design team ran out of budget.

Is it Overpriced ? Yes, and I don't expect to see many copies on the road; nevertheless a very interesting product like the Santafe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The 1st-gen Verna had the worst suspension in terms of comfort as well. Among the many owners who complained of its boat-like feeling, here's one who types like no other:
The gen before, christened the Accent is definitely one of the worst riding sedan's ever- we still have a 15 year old copy at home. Can't believe how silly this car with all wheel independent suspension behaves. The rear literally dances one you pick up speed. Hope You Understand Nothing is Drivable And Inexpensive (HYUNDAI) was so true 15 years ago.
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Old 7th April 2017, 14:51   #43
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

A very detailed official review here. Nothing less can be expected from TeamBHP.

Some might think that the Tucson's overpriced, but then pricing it any lower would have put the Creta at risk.

The Tucson is larger, has a much better equipment list and most importantly a Diesel engine that can justify the segment it competes in. Same goes for the poverty spec manual variant. This has been done to keep Creta customers at bay.

All said and done, the Creta is the mass market hero for Hyundai, not the Tucson.

While at it, I noticed what I think is a very minor design fault in the control stalks of all Hyundais and even Hondas for that matter. It is to do with the indicator stalks.

Stalks of the Tucson shown here. Notice how and where the labellings on the Indicator stalk are placed. They are much more likely to come in contact with your fingers and wear off like they did in our Verna and my Grandfather's City:
Name:  2016hyundaitucson12.jpg
Views: 3140
Size:  56.3 KB

This setting seen in my Jetta is much different. The fonts or labellings are placed in a manner, such that they are less likely to come in contact with your fingers directly:
Hyundai Tucson : Official Review-cruise-control-stalk.jpg

Just my observations on this. I will be more than happy to stand corrected and its just my opinion.
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Old 8th April 2017, 11:43   #44
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post



Great observation - thanks for sharing.


And Creta is already overpriced by at least 2L - thus Tucson comes in at least 5L more than what it should be for what it offers.

Ford is much more VFM and so are the Indian offerings like XUV, Hexa etc. The service is not half as painful as it is made out to be. Resale value is an issue - like with every other model that doesn't sell like hotcakes.
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Old 11th April 2017, 00:49   #45
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Default Re: Hyundai Tucson : Official Review

The Tucson is a very good cross over execpt the high price and omission of an AWD.
It has a car like driving dynamics and if it was priced at 25 lakhs OTR (top end)Tucson would have a 3 -6 month waiting period and would be flying off the shelves like the Creta.

Ford Endeavour 2.2 is a much better proposition for the same price.
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