[simplyself]

Originally Posted by keeprevving

I went for a Tiago AMT test drive. It was not available. ...
Tigor shouldn't be compared to other sub-4m sedans (Dzire, Xcent, Amaze, Aspire, Zest), unlike some websites and magazines. Many automobile sites have compared Tigor vs. Dzire vs. Xcent. Some have pitted Tigor head-on with Dzire. Why? Tata is almost 1.5-2 lakhs cheaper. It's like comparing apples with oranges. If Tigor vs. Dzire vs. Xcent is possible, then why not compare Dzire vs. Rapid, Ciaz, City, Verna. The price difference isn't much.

Well said.

Any number of price revising will not bring Tigor on par with Dzire, Xcent.

[fighterace]

Originally Posted by simplyself

Well said.

Any number of price revising will not bring Tigor on par with Dzire, Xcent.

Based in back to back test drives, I can confidently say that the Tigor is a better proposition than the Dzire, esp. in the tip end trims. Comparing the petrol models-

Dzire advantages: More refined engine, better acceleration due to light weight, MARUTI.

Tiago advantages: Heavier construction- feels more planted, excellent suspension rides bad roads better than the Dzire, EXCELLENT steering- feels like a HPS (Dzire's was mediocre), three cylinder engine ensures FE is at par with the Dzire despite being ~150 kg heavier. Probably safer than the Dzire.

Compare the prices, and you know which one is a better proposition.

As for the Xcent, I once rode an Indigo taxi whose driver was wearing a Hyundai embroidered shirt. He was a former Hyundai SA who had changed professions a few days earlier. When I asked him why he hadn't bought the Xcent, he said the the car was suffering from engine failures around the 50k km mark. Coming from a company which pasted 5 star safety stickers on cars made from scrap steel, I am not surprised at all.

Feel free to take your pick.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

What a waste of opportunity, TATA!

I always used to feel that Tigor had the best potential among all the cars there were planned by TATA. Zest, Bolt and Hexa were all supposed to be stop-gap arrangements with existing cars till the real new cars came out - Tiago, Tigor and Nexon.

And Tiago did well for a city car. Yes, it had mediocre engines but that was forgivable given its pricing and positioning. And the pricing of the Tiago was brilliant indeed and it left a big space for the Tigor to fill in, with some good improvements.

Sadly, TATA has decided to leave it a half job done once again. The engines are a major weakness and unlike the hatchback - this is not a city car anymore. People look at the compact sedan segment as a more well rounded offering, and a balanced package - the Tigor defenitely is not!

Would I ever consider it over the likes of DZire/ Xcent / Aspire etc? Certainly not. Not with these tiny engines for sure!

And those who think it's not comparable to the others due to lower pricing - 1) There is only one variant worth buying - and that's the top end variant with airbags, which is not cheap at 7L 2) Have a look at Aspire pricing and 3) It would have been a big flop had it been priced any higher.

Tiago seems to have settled down at around 4500 cars per month. I expect much less from Tigor, probably less than 2k units per month in the long run. Once again, what a waste of an opportunity, TATA - for the design was so brilliant - it really deserved a better package overall without such glaring flaws.

Companies like TATA have known perception issues with the general public for incompetent service and reliability concerns. They should atleast make the products unquestionably well rounded (Study VW, in case you are reading this!) so that people are tempted to ignore the shortcomings for a better car. Now only hope remains on the Nexon, but I fear it doesn't have as much potential as the Tigor once 'had'.

Originally Posted by greenhorn

Tata has a history of building very robust bodies (they own some of the best steel mills after all!)

Why, Just recently, the zest with 2 airbags scored 4 stars in NCAP while the swift with 6 airbags scored just 3

Sorry, this is misleading IMHO. One is Global NCAP and the other is Euro NCAP, and the latter follows much more stringent standards in their tests. (Eg: AEB is one parameter while scores heavily while it's not even considered in GlobalNCAP) You cant simply compare the ratings as such.

And then you have forgotten the fact that TATA got a poor rating first for an unstable structure which they later rectified. So we cant generalize TATA cars as safe cars, unless tested - just because the body panels feel strong.

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

And then you have forgotten the fact that TATA got a poor rating first for an unstable structure which they later rectified. So we cant generalize TATA cars as safe cars, unless tested - just because the body panels feel strong.

I was just googling to compare swift and zest test results with airbags. Unfortunately, it seems the zest was not tested by euro ncap, and both the zest and swift failed global ncap (non airbag versions)

[5kmiles]

Couple of things, at the risk of repeating myself:

1. Tigor is full 180kgs heavier than Dzire and heavier than every other car in immediate comparison range. Engine is not insufficient, it is slightly overwhelmed by the weight it needs to haul. I drove it briefly - it didn't feel like lethargic. Other car makers have offered more lethargic engines. Took it over some small breakers without braking and it just went so well. Last time I did this was with Linea test drive in 2010. Not comparing the two but Tigor complained surprisingly less for the category it is placed in.
2. Heavier build may not lead to higher safety ratings but it does lead to less dings and damage on body panels. Ask Baleno owners or go to any Maruti body shop to see how it bends and gets dinged.
3. I have rarely faced service issues with Tata. Not like it has been perfect but just that Maruti charges whole lot more now - both in car price and services - for the peace of mind it offers. My S-Cross has left me stranded on the road within firs 30k kms - never happened with Manza in 1.25L kms. My 2011 WagonR was not cheap to maintain either and had much inferior quality compared to my first WagonR in 2002.

Dzire is a fantastic product as well. Just that Tigor makes a very very strong case for itself as a package.

[Aaron:)]

This month's Autocar India has a comparison test including the Dzire, Tigor and their rivals, all petrol MT. These are the rankings -

1. Maruti Dzire : 8/10
2. Tata Tigor : 8/10
3. Hyundai Xcent : 8/10
4. Ford Aspire : 7/10
5. VW Ameo : 7/10
6. Honda Amaze : 7/10

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by Aaron:)

This month's Autocar India has a comparison test including the Dzire, Tigor and their rivals, all petrol MT. These are the rankings -

1. Maruti Dzire : 8/10
2. Tata Tigor : 8/10
3. Hyundai Xcent : 8/10
4. Ford Aspire : 7/10
5. VW Ameo : 7/10
6. Honda Amaze : 7/10

I wonder why the Aspire scores LESS than the top 3, especially #3. Aspire is a wonderful car in my opinion.

And probably re-iterating the thing that almost everyone must have already said. This car in my opinion is the biggest let-down by a car maker. The most beautiful, smart, solid & feature rich car - lacking only one but VITAL point. A very capable engine. Perceptions are always very dynamic. Nobody will think about the big price difference with competition when thinking "Ok the Aspire has 100 PS...I'm buying a car with...not even 70?" This can never be covered with touch screen infotainment & literally the best in class looks.

No. TATA is a huge business. Even Tata Motors itself is a big player. I'm shocked at their allocation of resources even in make-or-break projects. Do they have only 1 team that can work at a time? So only 1 engine can be developed at a time. Only 1 car can be designed at a time? So when Tiago is being developed, no development at all on any more competent engines? When HEXA is being redone from ARIA, the Safari is a neglected child? Really?

Wasn't this a very very easy chance to redo the 1.4L CR4 engine much better and plonk it here? A proper 4 cylinder motor? Similarly, use the 1.2T from the ZEST in this one rather than a 3 cyl non-turbo motor? Price it same as the Dzire or the Aspire then and people WILL STILL BUY IT.

When is Tata going to stop wasting cars and products with immense potentials due to adding silly weak links?

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by Aaron:)

This month's Autocar India has a comparison test including the Dzire, Tigor and their rivals, all petrol MT. These are the rankings -

1. Maruti Dzire : 8/10
2. Tata Tigor : 8/10
3. Hyundai Xcent : 8/10
4. Ford Aspire : 7/10
5. VW Ameo : 7/10
6. Honda Amaze : 7/10

Yes i read this. And they finally rate Maruti Dzire as the best compact sedan in the country.

[trek]

I saw the Tigor on the road today, happened to be the top end variant in the brown copper shade.

The car looks swell and is indeed a breakthrough design in the compact sedan segment. It has a feel of desirability and seems like a wonderful buy for the educated urban couple looking to buy their first car or even upgrade from a hatch.

Tata should add airbags and ABS on the lower variants as well.

Hope they take the initial market feedback and make necessary tweaks wherever required to ensure that the Tigor sells in good numbers that it deserves to.

[trek]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

I wonder why the Aspire scores LESS than the top 3, especially #3. Aspire is a wonderful car in my opinion.

And probably re-iterating the thing that almost everyone must have already said. This car in my opinion is the biggest let-down by a car maker. The most beautiful, smart, solid & feature rich car - lacking only one but VITAL point. A very capable engine. Perceptions are always very dynamic. Nobody will think about the big price difference with competition when thinking "Ok the Aspire has 100 PS...I'm buying a car with...not even 70?" This can never be covered with touch screen infotainment & literally the best in class looks.

No. TATA is a huge business. Even Tata Motors itself is a big player. I'm shocked at their allocation of resources even in make-or-break projects. Do they have only 1 team that can work at a time? So only 1 engine can be developed at a time. Only 1 car can be designed at a time? So when Tiago is being developed, no development at all on any more competent engines? When HEXA is being redone from ARIA, the Safari is a neglected child? Really?

Wasn't this a very very easy chance to redo the 1.4L CR4 engine much better and plonk it here? A proper 4 cylinder motor? Similarly, use the 1.2T from the ZEST in this one rather than a 3 cyl non-turbo motor? Price it same as the Dzire or the Aspire then and people WILL STILL BUY IT.

When is Tata going to stop wasting cars and products with immense potentials due to adding silly weak links?

Mods, sorry for the back to back post.

I fully agree with the above. The Zest isn't selling well so it was a bad decision to restrict the 4 cylinder engines from using in Tigor. They might as well let Tigor cannibalize Zest sales by sharing the same engines. At least, this would ensure that the Tigor is able to compete with others in the segment.

Also, I don't see a role for Zest anymore in the compact sedan space. They should make it into a full fledged sedan or even a 'Ertiga' type MUV and take it a segment higher. It would have provided great value to buyers who only have couple of options in the City and Ciaz.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by trek

Also, I don't see a role for Zest anymore in the compact sedan space. They should make it into a full fledged sedan or even a 'Ertiga' type MUV and take it a segment higher. It would have provided great value to buyers who only have couple of options in the City and Ciaz.

That full size sedan was the Manza that Zest killed.

TATA should learn to forget the old platforms and concentrate fully on the newer ones. Fully agree with you that Tigor should have got the engines from Zest, even if that meant the end for Zest.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

That full size sedan was the Manza that Zest killed.

TATA should learn to forget the old platforms and concentrate fully on the newer ones. Fully agree with you that Tigor should have got the engines from Zest, even if that meant the end for Zest.

If the Zest is killed off, it will be a testament to the countless blunders in TML. A superbly packaged, well behaved car. It should be retained IMO. At least the diesel one. The X2 (I think this was the name) platform from the Vista was very versatile. Very capable & scalable. TML managed to create one after another dull products based on it. And a platform smaller and less capable than X2 now sells in numbers...

To me it seems the Nexon is also based on the X2 from the dimensions. Not sure though.

I hope they work a little bit on the Zest again. Change some panels & redesign the headlamps a bit. That will take away the Vista legacy. Its a good car far from the end of its life. Just the customer perception needs to be changed with better marketing (I'm asking for too much from TML here I know...)

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

The X2 (I think this was the name) platform from the Vista was very versatile.

1. Vista, Manza, Bolt, Zest and Nexon are based on X1 platform.
   
2. X2 is the platform for Aria (now Hexa) and the Storme.
   
3. Tiago and Tigor are based on X0 platform.

Cheers!

[Shreyans_Jain]

Don't think they should kill off the Zest. Last time I checked, it sold more than the Amaze and Xcent. What has to be fixed however is the obviously weak powertrain of the Tigor. And the easiest way to go about that is shoehorning the Zest's 1.2T petrol into it. They can also have the 1.4 CR diesel engine from the Indigo CS. They had made it pretty capable and refined over the years, nothing like the old Indica engines. It had become a genuinely good engine for this segment. Another option will be to use they new 1.5 diesel they are developing for the Nexon. That will be a truly modern and up to date offering.

One thing is clear though. The current engines will not do. Too weak for the application. Too weak compared to the competition

[coldice4u]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

What has to be fixed however is the obviously weak powertrain of the Tigor. And the easiest way to go about that is shoehorning the Zest's 1.2T petrol into it. They can also have the 1.4 CR diesel engine from the Indigo CS.

As the market has slowly moved towards petrol, it becomes apparent that TATA does not have a competent petrol engine in its stable. The 1.2 petrol in ZEST is not efficient, no matter how you put it. May be its the weight of the cars, but its FE is atrocious in B2B traffic. And in the segment where the Tigor/Tiago twins are playing in, low fuel efficiency will just kill the cars, just look what happened to the Palio. And once a car is declared fuel a guzzler by the junta, you cannot recover from it.