[nsbhagwat]

Originally Posted by GKMahajan

I always thought that automatics of all type use more space in the engine bay - at least in comparison to the manual types. Am I right or wrong? If I am right, and if the engine is a real tight-pack, then I am wondering whether an automatic version will at all be launched!?

GKM,

As far as my understanding goes, the overall dimensions of the engine bay will not change whether the vehicle has a manual box or automatic. They want to keep the cost of the bodyshell the same irrespective of the variants.

Space in engine bay will determine the fact whether the gear box is say 6 speed or 7 for a manual and maybe 5 speed for an automatic.

The track width, mountings etc may change between a manual and automatic box.

Regards
Nikhil

[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by GKMahajan

I always thought that automatics of all type use more space in the engine bay - at least in comparison to the manual types. Am I right or wrong?

When they design the vehicle, I'm sure they think about some 10-12 years of lifespan for the product and any future engine/tranmission upgrades it may need. I would like to think even the most amateur car company will not make the cardinal sin of not 'future proofing' their vehicle.

[pahwa]

The thing I like most about Team-BHP is that the quality of content keeps getting better with every post and review. This one is no aberration. One of the finest and most detailed reviews on the web.

I am tempted to test drive Marazzo - considering a seven seater and 'upgrade' from 5 yr old Duster.

While everyone is comparing Marazzo with Innova - I am hanging between Marazzo and Hexa.

Hexa positives -
1. more spacious and better built
2. better audio
3. more powerful
4. No taxi image

Marazzo positives -
1. More practical city car (90% of my driving will be in city)
2. better mileage
3. More economic to acquire and run.

[GKMahajan]

Originally Posted by nsbhagwat

GKM,

As far as my understanding goes, the overall dimensions of the engine bay will not change whether the vehicle has a manual box or automatic. They want to keep the cost of the bodyshell the same irrespective of the variants.

Space in engine bay will determine the fact whether the gear box is say 6 speed or 7 for a manual and maybe 5 speed for an automatic.

The track width, mountings etc may change between a manual and automatic box.

Regards
Nikhil

Originally Posted by venkyhere

When they design the vehicle, I'm sure they think about some 10-12 years of lifespan for the product and any future engine/tranmission upgrades it may need. I would like to think even the most amateur car company will not make the cardinal sin of not 'future proofing' their vehicle.

Dear Nikhil and venkyhere,

Thanks for the reassurance! Actually, I think my thoughts have flowed in the same direction - so far! I was just voicing a fear.

But - and that is a big 'but' - all of us are working on the assumption that Mahindra has actually included the auto transmission in their 'plan'! What if they don't want to have the auto version of this - ever? Maybe that is why they made such a compact engine placement!? Anyway, I would be happy to be proven wrong.

Regards,

Girish Mahajan

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by GKMahajan

Dear Nikhil and venkyhere,

Thanks for the reassurance! Actually, I think my thoughts have flowed in the same direction - so far! I was just voicing a fear.

But - and that is a big 'but' - all of us are working on the assumption that Mahindra has actually included the auto transmission in their 'plan'! What if they don't want to have the auto version of this - ever? Maybe that is why they made such a compact engine placement!? Anyway, I would be happy to be proven wrong.

Regards,

Girish Mahajan

It is highly likely that Mahindra will come up with an AMT version of the Marazzo instead of the CVT transmission. AMT gearboxes are already offered in the TUV300 and also soon are coming in the KUV100. AMT gearboxes are also fairly compact and almost the same size as the manual version. AMT gearboxes are also cost effective so would fit the Marazzo's value positioning. With an AMT gearbox, the price of the Marazzo could be pegged at just 60-70k higher than the current models, which would make it very cost effective.

[pavi]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

It is highly likely that Mahindra will come up with an AMT version of the Marazzo instead of the CVT transmission. AMT gearboxes are already offered in the TUV300 and also soon are coming in the KUV100. AMT gearboxes are also fairly compact and almost the same size as the manual version. AMT gearboxes are also cost effective so would fit the Marazzo's value positioning. With an AMT gearbox, the price of the Marazzo could be pegged at just 60-70k higher than the current models, which would make it very cost effective.

But the question here is, 'Is the 15 Lakhs+ market as cost conscious as say market under 10 lakhs?'. I think people associate AMT with 'cheap', it was offered in a Lamborghini comment not withstanding. So if someone is paying north of 15 lakhs, he/she will expect a better auto box. But we know most people don't understand the difference between an AMT, a CVT or or a DCT or a TC. For them AMT may be just as same as other automatics.

[ac 427]

Good review.
But for a car that is so good, it has managed to clock sales of only upto 3800.
Infact the whole category is slow - Ertiga at 1400. Hexa at sub 1k.
Only aberration is the Innova that is doing 12k+ sales.

Does it mean that the middle class Indian is not looking for a people carrier?

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by ac 427

Good review.
But for a car that is so good, it has managed to clock sales of only upto 3800.
Infact the whole category is slow - Ertiga at 1400. Hexa at sub 1k.
Only aberration is the Innova that is doing 12k+ sales.

Does it mean that the middle class Indian is not looking for a people carrier?

The Indian middle class is getting a new definition with every new car launch these days
And the so-called "middle class" category is getting divided into so many sub-segments that the manufacturers will need to devise a smartphone-like strategy to cater to the ever increasing hyper-personalization in this segment!
For Marazzo - guess Mahindras will be happy to sell about 3500-4000 copies on a monthly basis, maybe more of the taxi segment rather than individuals.
For Ertiga - the probable reason for the 60% drop every month, is dealers might have stopped selling/might not be getting incentivised due to the new model launch around the corner.
For Hexa - looks like the dust is now settled and the car will now never cross the 1,000 mark unless there is a great price drop (but it's already a VFM vehicle).
And for Innova - Toyota's fiercely loyal customer base of about 7,000 monthly customers is not gong anywhere (even if you increase the price or have more dents in its famed quality)

[ariesonu]

On my outing to Igatpuri this weekend, I counted about 11 car carriers off-loading Marazzo's in hordes. I wanted to click photos but uniformed person politely asked me to refrain. I counted about 38 Marazzos, most in Maroon & Purple shades (who is buying Purple!!!). The uniformed person informed me that they are off-loading about 35-50 Marazzo's each week. I found the number a tad high but then, who am I to complain.

Marazzo's have also started to become common sight on roadside Dhaba's and I am yet to see any with yellow plates. Having said that, I saw two with black plates with yellow fonts at Manas Resort and both were TOP end models.

So I think Mahindra has winner on hand. Now, only if someone will write me a cheque of 15 Big ones.

Regards-Sonu

[Behemoth]

Great review TBHP team! (As always!).
I for one wish this car great success and feel that this car can one day beat the Innova in MUV sales numbers. It is a well balanced car with good mileage and decent interiors. The engine is also very refined. The marazzo will actually affect the sales of a lot of other 15 lac cars!

[GKMahajan]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

It is highly likely that Mahindra will come up with an AMT version of the Marazzo instead of the CVT transmission. AMT gearboxes are already offered in the TUV300 and also soon are coming in the KUV100. AMT gearboxes are also fairly compact and almost the same size as the manual version. AMT gearboxes are also cost effective so would fit the Marazzo's value positioning. With an AMT gearbox, the price of the Marazzo could be pegged at just 60-70k higher than the current models, which would make it very cost effective.

Dear Behemoth,

Your opinion is very interesting to me! Thanks for sharing it.

As per my thought process, if Mahindra put AMT in this big machine, they are making a mistake. For this I feel they should go for proper torque converter AT. However, your logic seems very logical - if you know what I mean! Let us see.

By the way, does Mahindra have CVT - even as an option - on any of its present cars - or even as an option in its future cars? Just curious.

Regards,

Girish Mahajan

[HighwayofLife]

Originally Posted by JoshMachine

And for Innova - Toyota's fiercely loyal customer base of about 7,000 monthly customers is not gong anywhere (even if you increase the price or have more dents in its famed quality)

Remains to be seen what happens if Marazzo proves itself reliable. It has the potential to eat into some Innova sales. The problem to date has been the lack of a car in this class that can seat 7/8 comfortably without compromise. The Xylo was simply horrible with its tall construction and excess body roll. The Marazzo has an amazingly neutral ride, and is the most car-like to drive among the MUVs in the market, barring the sub 4m ones

[Paradiddle]

Looks like this has been received well by the masses. In Bangalore, I see quite a few white board Marazzos on the road already. I also saw a fleet of 10+ yellow board Marazzos in HSR layout belonging to a popular tours and travels operator.

I think Mahindra has hit the sweet spot with the Marazzo.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by pahwa

I am tempted to test drive Marazzo - considering a seven seater and 'upgrade' from 5 yr old Duster.

Marazzo positives -
1. More practical city car (90% of my driving will be in city)

Let's think about that for a moment - is the Marazzo really city-friendly?

In the preceding pages on this thread we've seen AutoIndian and other esteemed members arrive at the conclusion that the Marazzo is an unlikely city vehicle. Driveability is strictly at a certain RPM range that you're likely to maintain only out on the highway. The Marazzo seems to lag behind traffic if one doesn't work the gears appropriately. Shouldn't you look for a city vehicle that pulls cleanly from low RPMs? I'm just exercising my limited knowledge here; if I may, I'll be glad to learn something new.

Originally Posted by GKMahajan

By the way, does Mahindra have CVT - even as an option - on any of its present cars - or even as an option in its future cars? Just curious.

I don't think Mahindra has even a single CVT offering. I have my own suspicions on why they don't offer it.

On Quora, I happen to follow some professional mechanics living in the US, the land of the automatics. The mechanics have often opined that the CVT is a gearbox that "cannot handle real power". They've given examples of how Toyota plonks the CVT onto its weaker compact sedan, the Corolla; meanwhile for the bigger, more powerful and un-humble 200 HP Camry, it's a good old torque converter AT.

Similarly, they've listed data points that go to prove that other than Nissan in the US market, no other manufacturer is so much in love with the CVT technology. Nissan's most audacious love episode with the CVT is in the 300 HP Maxima. But according to consumer reports, customers don't like the CVT in the Maxima since all that power doesn't get felt thanks to the CVT.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by locusjag

Nissan's most audacious love episode with the CVT is in the 300 HP Maxima. But according to consumer reports, customers don't like the CVT in the Maxima since all that power doesn't get felt thanks to the CVT.

They also had huge problems with their CVT gearboxes in the Pathfinder. That said, theoretically CVT gearbox is the best way to get both performance and economy. For e.g. the engine can spin constantly at max torque rpm for a diesel while continuously changing the ratio depending on the conditions (remember its infinite ratios) to get the best efficiency or at max power rpm to get max performance.