[jayguar]

Originally Posted by tinshark

I came across this on CarDekho a couple of days back. Having zero experience in dealing with cars (old / new) I hesitated to proceed. Does one typically have a known mechanic who inspects used cars before negotiating a price? It all feels too risky (to me) and at the same time I feel most new cars are overpriced (IMHO).

Now, I’m just confused and I am wondering if I should wait for bs6 variant to be launched.

You can do it yourself if you know how to check the car yourself or take someone with you who knows how to check and understand the issues if any. That person need not be a mechanic. You will also need to know why the car is being sold.

OT: You can use the Quote+ option to reply to multiple posts

[VWAllstar]

Like the popularity Tiago and Tigor JTP have gathered, especially it being a Tata product. But did not like the Tiago JTP. The power is strictly average, handling is also average, ride quality below average, pricing is very good and full marks for the efforts and launch.

After loving the Polo GT TSI and Abarth Punto, Tiago JTP is difficult to be appreciated for all that the former two cars have. Nevertheless, it is yet to be seen if it is mod friendly and Wolf or some other remapping guys will be able to extract more bhp and torque from the engine.

Looks and the exhaust sound are a savior to their first attempt. Waiting for them to better this and go all out to give us a true JTP.

[Sunsh!nes]

Originally Posted by tinshark

I came across this on CarDekho a couple of days back. Having zero experience in dealing with cars (old / new) I hesitated to proceed. Does one typically have a known mechanic who inspects used cars before negotiating a price? It all feels too risky (to me) and at the same time I feel most new cars are overpriced (IMHO).

Now, I’m just confused and I am wondering if I should wait for bs6 variant to be launched.

There's Advise on New/used Car thread available in the Forum:

https://www.team-bhp.com/advice
https://www.team-bhp.com/advice/how-buy-new-car-india-0
https://www.team-bhp.com/advice/how-...ed-car-india-0

A FNG known to any of your friend or colleagues should help. The threads above should give you a fair idea. I would advise to learn things yourself, knowledge is power, the more you know, the better. It's no rocket science. Forum is at your disposal. All you have to do is search. Reviews, discussions etc.,

[Turrrb0]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Like the popularity Tiago and Tigor JTP have gathered, especially it being a Tata product. But did not like the Tiago JTP. The power is strictly average, handling is also average, ride quality below average, pricing is very good and full marks for the efforts and launch.
After loving the Polo GT TSI and Abarth Punto, Tiago JTP is difficult to be appreciated for all that the former two cars have. Nevertheless, it is yet to be seen if it is mod friendly and Wolf or some other remapping guys will be able to extract more bhp and torque from the engine.
Looks and the exhaust sound are a savior to their first attempt. Waiting for them to better this and go all out to give us a true JTP.

Comparing with cars a segment above and which cost a handful of lakhs more is not a fair comparison IMO.The same Polo GT TSI and Abarth Punto would pale in comparison to a Polo GTI or a JCW Mini..

Power is average? I think another case of not switching on sport mode.

[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by Turrrb0

Comparing with cars a segment above and which cost a handful of lakhs more is not a fair comparison IMO.The same Polo GT TSI and Abarth Punto would pale in comparison to a Polo GTI or a JCW Mini

Tata has advertised the Tiago JTP as a competitor to Polo GT TSI, Abarth Punto and Figo Sports. They have managed to price the JTP Twins more reasonably than the Polo GT TSI.

Originally Posted by Turrrb0

Power is average? I think another case of not switching on sport mode.

Had switched on the sports mode all the time. It has more power than the normal Tiago but surely cannot be termed as a hot hatch. The air intake and exhaust give an all round perception of it being one but sadly on road where it matters, it felt inadequately powered.

Moreover, even though being a turbo petrol it felt like a raw machine which has been locally modified but with company warranty.
Above 4k rpm the JTP engine really struggles, better is to buy an ivtec or free revving Maruti petrol engines and mod them to one's liking.

[Turrrb0]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

better is to buy an ivtec or free revving Maruti petrol engines and mod them to one's liking.

To each his own I suppose..

[Mi10]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Tata has advertised the Tiago JTP as a competitor to Polo GT TSI, Abarth Punto and Figo Sports. They have managed to price the JTP Twins more reasonably than the Polo GT TSI.

First of all the Tiago is a whole size smaller than all the other cars you have mentioned ! So JTP is technically punching above its level to draw comparisons with TSI or Abarth !

Secondly, The GT TSI is overpriced; Figo Sports was reasonably priced and Punto Abarth and JTP are really well priced !

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Had switched on the sports mode all the time. It has more power than the normal Tiago but surely cannot be termed as a hot hatch. The air intake and exhaust give an all round perception of it being one but sadly on road where it matters, it felt inadequately powered.

You are right the Car doesn't 'feel' powerful, but is fast enough for its class and even one above it ! Its got a confused gearbox, and if you dont spend time in adjusting to its ratios, you ll just be jerking and jumping around every gearshift !

But make no mistake, the car is fast (Outright Acceleration and in-gear acceleration)

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Moreover, even though being a turbo petrol it felt like a raw machine which has been locally modified but with company warranty.

I agree to this 100% . It doesn't give you the refined / premium feel of the Honda or a Suzuki! But then just for comparisons, the 1.5 TDI and the older 1.4 TDCI feel and sound just like a tractor

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Above 4k rpm the JTP engine really struggles, better is to buy an ivtec or free revving Maruti petrol engines and mod them to one's liking.

In 1st gear ? Yes! Because they have the RPM cut off programmed at 1st gear for 4k RPM. But i have comfortably taken this well above 4k RPM in every gear all the way till 5th gear, don't think its struggling anywhere except in the Top end

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Had switched on the sports mode all the time. It has more power than the normal Tiago but surely cannot be termed as a hot hatch. The air intake and exhaust give an all round perception of it being one but sadly on road where it matters, it felt inadequately powered.

Hot hatches aren't generally defined by the power they make, but the character and personality of the car itself.

Renault Sport sells a car called the Twingo GT, for example. It's powered by a 900 cc motor with a small turbo that makes a little over 100 horsepower. But it's as hot as hot hatchbacks get! Even Jeremy Clarkson concurs. https://www.driving.co.uk/car-review...ult-twingo-gt/

The Polo GT TSI, I do not consider a hot hatch because it's missing key ingredients such as a lively suspension setup, proper brakes, etc. And these are the ingredients that maketh a hot hatch.

This is where the Abarth Punto and even the Tiago JTP feel like hot hatchbacks, because they're set-up to entertain. The GT TSI feels like a commuter car in comparison, albeit a good one.

Above 4k rpm the JTP engine really struggles, better is to buy an ivtec or free revving Maruti petrol engines and mod them to one's liking.

There's only so much you can do in terms of modifications, to a naturally aspirated car like the City or a Swift. Meanwhile, you can unlock a lot of potential from turbocharged cars and liberate upto 30% additional power with just a quick 10 minute flash / the right ECU map.

Sure, there's an inherent appeal to naturally aspirated cars and their free revving nature, but their potentials are woefully restricted in comparison.

[jayguar]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Tata has advertised the Tiago JTP as a competitor to Polo GT TSI, Abarth Punto and Figo Sports. They have managed to price the JTP Twins more reasonably than the Polo GT TSI.

Tata may have advertised that the Tiago JTP competes with the above cars but it definitely is a segment below. It should be taken as Tata's affordable hatchback for the enthusiasts like Polo GT TSI for VW, Abarth Punto for the Fiat, and Figo Sports/Blu for the Ford. Tiago JTP should never be compared with these cars as a competitor.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by jayguar

Tata may have advertised that the Tiago JTP competes with the above cars but it definitely is a segment below. It should be taken as Tata's affordable hatchback for the enthusiasts like Polo GT TSI for VW, Abarth Punto for the Fiat, and Figo Sports/Blu for the Ford. Tiago JTP should never be compared with these cars as a competitor.

Figo BLU doesn't belong in this list though. BLU is a cosmetic pack I believe and mechanically the car is identical to normal 1.5 TDCI or 1.2 Ti-VCT, The other cars in the list are mechanically different than their commuter siblings. Different engine, suspension setups. You are correct that these cars shouldn't be directly compared. And if compared - their sticker price should be item # 1 in the list.

Cheers.

[vik99]

The Tiago JTP was featured in Autocar's Track Day. It's lap time was just below the Baleno RS and Octavia vRS, better than Polo GT TSI. I have attached the extract and photos.

[shaheenazk]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Moreover, even though being a turbo petrol it felt like a raw machine which has been locally modified but with company warranty.
Above 4k rpm the JTP engine really struggles, better is to buy an ivtec or free revving Maruti petrol engines and mod them to one's liking.

This car's torque band is between 2000-4000 rpm, so its pointless to rev it beyond 4000 rpm.

[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by Mi10

The GT TSI is overpriced; Figo Sports was reasonably priced and Punto Abarth and JTP are really well priced !

Apart from Figo Sports, none of them were well priced. Abarth Punto is affordable with discounts but it's sticker price is close to that of Polo GT TSI.

Originally Posted by Mi10

But make no mistake, the car is fast (Outright Acceleration and in-gear acceleration)

May be our feeling of 'fast' are different. I did not find it exciting with regards to it's outright acceleration and in gear acceleration. It is quicker than the Tiago that's all.

Originally Posted by Mi10

But then just for comparisons, the 1.5 TDI and the older 1.4 TDCI feel and sound just like a tractor

You are comparing a turbo petrol with diesel engines, don't think there is any meaningful conclusion to such comparison. JTPs poor NVH and 3 cylinder vibrations inside the cabin are well known now, above it's sweet spot it is no less than a tractor itself.

Originally Posted by Mi10

1st gear ? Yes! Because they have the RPM cut off programmed at 1st gear for 4k RPM. But i have comfortably taken this well above 4k RPM in every gear all the way till 5th gear, don't think its struggling anywhere except in the Top end

Not just 1st gear, in any gear JTP struggles above 4-4.5k RPM. The engine feels strained and so raw that even a tractor shall sound sweeter to the ears. (Ok that's exaggerating)
No where close to the free revving TSI engines, many diesel engines revv better than the JTP.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Hot hatches aren't generally defined by the power they make, but the character and personality of the car itself

JTP has a lot of character but very close to a go kart feeling. The steering feedback isn't that great, suspensions are average, lowered car so had to stiffen them up hence takes corners better than the normal Tiago.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

The Polo GT TSI, I do not consider a hot hatch because it's missing key ingredients such as a lively suspension setup, proper brakes, etc. And these are the ingredients that maketh a hot hatch.

This is where the Abarth Punto and even the Tiago JTP feel like hot hatchbacks, because they're set-up to entertain. The GT TSI feels like a commuter car in comparison, albeit a good one.

JTP has no all round disc brakes, infact they have the same brakes as the normal Tiago. JTP engineers have said they are good enough along with the retuned suspensions.

GT TSI has pathetic braking compared to it's agility and Figo Sports too has an old school setup with an over sensitive ABS. Only Abarth Punto is a clear winner here.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

There's only so much you can do in terms of modifications, to a naturally aspirated car like the City or a Swift. Meanwhile, you can unlock a lot of potential from turbocharged cars and liberate upto 30% additional power with just a quick 10 minute flash

JTP is raw at it's stock and will be foolishness to play around with the engine at this stage of it's life. I have doubts about it's reliability and durability as well. From the few test drives and having it for a day made me feel that the owner will be spending a lot on its maintenance post 2 years.

Other cosmetic things I dislike of JTP:

Cheap pedals
Seat pattern
Red borders of the mats
Red ears (Tigor orvm)
No flat bottom steering wheel

I like the JTPs only because it is Tata Motors. Happy to see them dive into untested waters. I am sure that they will only make the JTP better and soon we shall have our own what 'Abarth' is to Fiat.

[Mi10]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Apart from Figo Sports, none of them were well priced. Abarth Punto is affordable with discounts but it's sticker price is close to that of Polo GT TSI.

Which Figo Sports your talking about ? Petrol or Diesel ?
If it is Diesel, then the below statement doesn't hold its place here!

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

You are comparing a turbo petrol with diesel engines, don't think there is any meaningful conclusion to such comparison.

...And if it is Petrol, then this entire argument becomes invalid !

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

May be our feeling of 'fast' are different. I did not find it exciting with regards to it's outright acceleration and in gear acceleration. It is quicker than the Tiago that's all.

Yeah maybe ! But if a internationally acclaimed Motorsport driver calls it "Quick for its Price" and if this dingy little cockroach in his hands manages a whole 1 min over the famed GT TSI on a proper race track, then its bit hard to swallow few aspects of the above!

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Not just 1st gear, in any gear JTP struggles above 4-4.5k RPM. The engine feels strained and so raw that even a tractor shall sound sweeter to the ears. (Ok that's exaggerating)
No where close to the free revving TSI engines, many diesel engines revv better than the JTP.

Respect your opinion here.

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

JTP is raw at it's stock and will be foolishness to play around with the engine at this stage of it's life.

Curious to know what made you say this. I dont think its too old an engine (guess it debuted in Bolt - 2014) Still a lot younger than some Jurassic era engines plying in Honda's and Zuki's

[vik99]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Like the popularity Tiago and Tigor JTP have gathered, especially it being a Tata product. But did not like the Tiago JTP. The power is strictly average, handling is also average, ride quality below average, pricing is very good and full marks for the efforts and launch.

I am sure everyone agrees that the effort put in needs to be appreciated. In a country where a sticker job is often the only difference between a sporty and a regular variant, this effort by Tata Motors/JTSV is commendable. As for power, handling and ride quality being average, I guess it has to do with the limited options Tata Motors/JTSV had when it came to engines and a good base car to build upon. This is a car that does 0-100 in ~10Seconds, now there may be a few rattles along the way, but I am not sure if another vehicle exists at this price point which can do a ~10s 0-100 dash.

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

After loving the Polo GT TSI and Abarth Punto, Tiago JTP is difficult to be appreciated for all that the former two cars have.

These two aren't as accessible as the Tiago JTP, the Tiago JTP can be had well within 8lakhs on road just about everywhere. Now, that isn't to suggest that those who are looking for the magical DSG skimp on spending and go for the TA65 (strong shoulders required) on the Tiago JTP. I would have bought the Polo GTI if I could These are choices made based on one's circumstances, and if you were to look at it this way, the Tiago JTP is anyday more engaging to drive than the 'Sports" variants of other cars available in the same price range.

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Waiting for them to better this and go all out to give us a true JTP.