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Old 7th August 2019, 10:23   #331
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

One question which crops up in my mind is how is MG able to price the Hector so well? They are truly outclassing the Harrier on every front; except maybe the chassis. Not just the gizmos or the panoramic sunroof, but also things like the quality of showrooms, the 5 year warranty which brings peace of mind. How can they afford it?

Are they absorbing losses at the moment to grab a foothold? Do they have a better local suppliers network? Or they are able to price it better due to negligible cost spent in R&D of an existing product?

And why can't Tata do the same? Is it because of the sarkari mindset? Is it because of a weak mid management team in charge of execution?

While it is easy to sit outside and question things without having any insider view, I would love to understand the limitations.

Am saying this while sitting on the sidelines, waiting patiently for someone to launch an diesel automatic! Heart says Harrier, mind says Hector. But the only diesel automatic available is the Seltos!
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Old 7th August 2019, 10:36   #332
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihrishi View Post
One question which crops up in my mind is how is MG able to price the Hector so well? They are truly outclassing the Harrier on every front; except maybe the chassis. Not just the gizmos or the panoramic sunroof, but also things like the quality of showrooms, the 5 year warranty which brings peace of mind. How can they afford it?

Are they absorbing losses at the moment to grab a foothold? Do they have a better local suppliers network? Or they are able to price it better due to negligible cost spent in R&D of an existing product?

And why can't Tata do the same? Is it because of the sarkari mindset? Is it because of a weak mid management team in charge of execution?

SAIC is a cash rich company going all out to capture a new market. They are certainly not looking for numbers initially. TML is a domestic loss making company, which means there are all sorts of board level controls to curtail budget in each and every thing. Some time back, the international business was giving them money, but now, both the domestic and international business is in losses. Not a good position to be in, when you are competing with foreign brands going all out.

Last edited by padmrajravi : 7th August 2019 at 10:45.
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Old 7th August 2019, 11:06   #333
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihrishi View Post
One question which crops up in my mind is how is MG able to price the Hector so well? They are truly outclassing the Harrier on every front; except maybe the chassis. Not just the gizmos or the panoramic sunroof, but also things like the quality of showrooms, the 5 year warranty which brings peace of mind. How can they afford it?
For a company to be extremely efficient, they would need strings from the top management that runs through the entire work i.e from the CEO to the showroom security guard. Tata is slowly making this happen in its service, next they would need to do the same in QC department and finally sales force. This might take a long time, since the company is not being built ground up.

MG too, might not be able to repeat their magic once they expand. Every new company can do some magic, but it wears off once they face all the hurdles that established players face.
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Old 7th August 2019, 11:16   #334
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

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Originally Posted by ihrishi View Post
Am saying this while sitting on the sidelines, waiting patiently for someone to launch an diesel automatic! Heart says Harrier, mind says Hector. But the only diesel automatic available is the Seltos!
Same case with me - losing patience waiting for Tata to launch an AT Harrier. C'mon, its 8 months since they launched the manual and there is no firm commitment on when this will come. Every time I look at a Harrier on the road, i drool over it. Not keen on Hector, so may settle for Seltos as it ticks all the boxes (lot more feature loaded relative to Harrier) and pleases the mind, while heart says wait for Harrier
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Old 9th August 2019, 13:02   #335
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

The 7-seater iterations were caught on camera yesterday on the streets of Pune by Autospy.

Different alloy designs, rear wipers and touchscreen HUs were observed by him.

Tata Harrier : Official Review-img20190809wa0014.jpg
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Old 9th August 2019, 13:46   #336
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
The 7-seater iterations were caught on camera yesterday on the streets of Pune by Autospy.

Different alloy designs, rear wipers and touchscreen HUs were observed by him.
Alloys look better but not anything eye catching. Hyundai went the distance to get those swanky alloys on the Venue. I hope Tata watched it by now.

The rear hatch/door design, glass design & spoiler are actually resembling cars from MPV segment like Mobilio/Innova/Marazzo/Ertiga et al in bits and pieces.

The rear overhang looks really bad - I hope its simply due to the camera lens' wide angle characteristics.

The overhang certainly is going to be fairly longer than the Harrier anyway since the wheelbase will be maintained as it is. I hope they get the visual balance spot on. Tricky!

Last edited by Reinhard : 9th August 2019 at 13:48.
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Old 9th August 2019, 19:38   #337
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

New spy shots of Harrier Automatic found with blackened alloys

Tata Harrier : Official Review-5d4c08402f740_whatsappimage20190808at4_54.17pm2.jpeg.9f75745d09799ead42aedf0f94ee2179.jpeg

Tata Harrier : Official Review-5d4c083e09757_whatsappimage20190808at4_54_18pm.jpeg.9ed2b8de4f13bd65a1806b61a3613281.jpeg

Tata Harrier : Official Review-5d4c083c13440_whatsappimage20190808at4_54_17pm.jpeg.ef9abaad82e50757a50227509cf8a8e1.jpeg

Tata Harrier : Official Review-5d4c083751dfa_whatsappimage20190808at4_54.17pm1.jpeg.5851c284f74c48e2cf96d17ff1263e6b.jpeg

Source: Autocar India forum
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Old 9th August 2019, 23:01   #338
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
The rear overhang looks really bad - I hope its simply due to the camera lens' wide angle characteristics.

The overhang certainly is going to be fairly longer than the Harrier anyway since the wheelbase will be maintained as it is. I hope they get the visual balance spot on. Tricky!
Yes, it's both, the camera angle and also overhang is definitely longer. Ideally wheelbase should've been increased for the 7 seater to offer better space, but it's just an extension of the Harrier. I am curious to see the production belt line up of the 7 seater. It would be the same on Harrier's belt until C pillar and rear profile starts getting integrated instead of boot lid I guess.
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Old 10th August 2019, 02:50   #339
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

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Originally Posted by ihrishi View Post
One question which crops up in my mind is how is MG able to price the Hector so well?
Well rishi if you look at the Hexa pricing and compare it with the Harrier I feel Tata could have provided a better pricing than the current one for the Harrier especially since the Harrier supposedly is on a much more automated manufacturing process. If Tata were to put their heart into it I think they have a much better chance at optimizing costs than any of the "phoren" brands.

In fact I remember having done some weird calculation a year back too which scaling the Nexon or Hexa pricing would have had the Harrier top end at 15 ex showroom. Its just that they got carried away by the response to Harrier's design and the initial success of the Compass IMHO and tried to position themselves as a premium brand.

I feel their one chance to resurrect this wonderful design is the 7 seater. If they get savvy at least now and load it to the gills with:-

- The BSNL 5G connected car experience that they are anyhow developing
- A proper automatic at least as capable as the Hexa
- A sunroof option which is factory fitted

This much will only meet the expectation the Hector/Seltos has set

- A proper 4WD as a successor to the Safari
- All round cameras

I also feel at least now they should realize that the brand value that Hyundai or Mahindra has is much more than what they have and only a slew of successful products would improve theirs.

I dont think a good margin low selling product will cut it for them(which anyway gets diluted by giving huge discounts later) rather they have to aim at a low margin high selling product.

Lastly my personal opinion is that given the Harrier pricing blunder they just cant afford the car to be priced beyond 20 lakhs ex showroom and the further they move away from this target the larger chances of it bombing.

Given the Creta, Compass and XUV 7 seaters are planned for 2020 their window of opportunity is till the end of the year so that they get 6 months of traction or else nothing on the horizon can save their brand from tanking and all the hard work of the last few years will go down the drain.
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Old 10th August 2019, 07:02   #340
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
The rear hatch/door design, glass design & spoiler are actually resembling cars from MPV segment ...
The rear overhang looks really bad - I hope its simply due to the camera lens' wide angle characteristics.
Unfortunately, it is not the camera angle here. This one looks to be the H7X. I saw a H5X on test earlier this week, and that one was the normal length Harrier. These pics show a longer one. And yes, agree with you. The stretched Harrier isnt as smart.
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Old 10th August 2019, 23:15   #341
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
The rear hatch/door design, glass design & spoiler are actually resembling cars from MPV segment like Mobilio/Innova/Marazzo/Ertiga et al in bits and pieces.
I think the rear is heavily inspired by the Merc GLS. Heres a pic for comparison.

Tata Harrier : Official Review-2018_mercedesbenz_gls_grand_edition_2_1920x1080.jpg
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Old 10th August 2019, 23:19   #342
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

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Originally Posted by nainan View Post
Given the Creta, Compass and XUV 7 seaters are planned for 2020 their window of opportunity is till the end of the year ....
Do you mean Hector? Xuv500 is already a 7 seater from launch.
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Old 11th August 2019, 01:10   #343
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

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Do you mean Hector? Xuv500 is already a 7 seater from launch.
Yes the Hector as well. I meant the all new XUV 500 on the new Mahindra platform. I feel that Tata should learn the lesson from Bajaj and Enfield the only 2 desi makers who have stood up to and won against the "firangs".

Their deadly formula of compelling design, bling features and killer pricing has given them such an edge that nobody among the foriegn manufacturers is able to crack. And boy have they built a brand, they have dominated their segments for 20 odd years.

As for the overhang on the H7X its just 6 cm and if you look at the unmasked vehicle it does not look off to me at all. Also almost all 7 seaters have a straighter rear.

Tata Harrier : Official Review-tatabuzzarddetails.jpg

Tata Harrier : Official Review-maxresdefault.jpg
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Old 12th August 2019, 12:41   #344
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

Here's a rant on the Tata experience: I am in the market to replace by 8 year old Sunny and while my heart says Harrier (and asking me to wait for the AT), the mind is screaming Seltos as it fits my requirements and has all the kit. While I have pre-booked Seltos, I wanted to take a proper evaluation of Tata and decided to visit KHT Motors Whitefield, Bangalore and my experience there makes me think if the Tatas (or the dealers) even deserve my 2 million bucks.

Called up the dealer and they confirmed demo and test drive cars are available, and I said I will reach their showroom by 12 PM. Upon reaching, saw a White Harrier outside the showroom (pre-delivery I think) and an orange one inside. Despite calling and booking a time to be there, there was no one to attend to me. One person was busy with a family checking out the white car (looked like PDI) and another was with the orange one for 15 mins or so. I waited for 30 minutes and no one even bothered asking why I was in the showroom or what I wanted. Upon approaching 2-3 of their idle sales folks who were loitering around the Hexa and Nexon, not one bothered to offer either a brochure, price list or anything about the car, other than saying please sit down and have a seat. After 15 odd mins, the salesperson on the orange car vanishes, and no one has a clue of where he is. Front office made no attempt to call him to even let him know there's a prospective customer in waiting !!! When i expressed frustration, the fellow attending to the white Harrier said it is a Sunday and most of their team is on weekly off !! What a response - weekends are when most showrooms get maximum footfalls and these guys are on leave. Do they expect us to take a day off and show up on Monday at 10 AM when they are in full strength to learn about the vehicle?

This was exactly the same experience I had with a different tata showroom 9 years back when I was evaluating Manza Vs Sunny. Now, despite a stunning range of products, nothing has changed in Tata on customer experience. My wife was checking out Nexon and Tiago/Tigor during the time in the showroom and again, no one bothered asking her what interests her and what she wanted. Absolute zero for customer experience.

Contrast this to the Kia experience last weekend (ok, Kia is a new brand, they want to sell etc) but despite a packed showroom, i was assigned to a sales guy who attended to me patiently. I have not been car-shopping since 2013 but a few trips to Hyundai & Mahindra to check out the Creta when launched, or the KUV100/NewXUV were always met with enthusiastic sales guys and even at telling them I am not there to buy but just check the car out, they were more than happy to explain details, offer test drives or hand me brochures.

Sad to see an Indian company with good products but a non-existent customer service. Even when I walked out of the showroom making my displeasure felt, no one, incl the front office made an attempt to find out why or take my number to organize a call back. They were busy chatting amongst themselves. Fine, I will plonk my money elsewhere where I matter to the team !
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Old 12th August 2019, 14:27   #345
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Default Re: Tata Harrier : Official Review

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Do they expect us to take a day off and show up on Monday at 10 AM when they are in full strength to learn about the vehicle?
Am in the same boat. I have been trying to get a test drive of the manual Harrier for 3 weeks now with National Auto, Hadapsar Pune.
Every time I have been given a different excuse like vehicle is out for service, out for an event, not available for one reason or other.
Consistently I am told that they will get back to me and schedule an appointment, but guess what, it has not happened.

While my heart is 99.99% sold on the Harrier Automatic but I would love some attention

Only decision that needs to be made is based on how they price the Harrier v/s the Cassini
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