[Sebring]

Did the Harrier underestimate the MG and the Seltos? Two years back we were all in the know that these two Marquee brands will be in India with fully laden cars. We knew it was going to be SUV and in the 15-20 lakh price range. Yet, the feeble knee-jerk reaction seems to be a 'dual-tone' variant. At least offer the god blessed sunroof! Would that need a lot of R&D? That's how you react! People are just going gaga over that breach in the sky!

[tarik.arora]

I see a lot of reaction on this thread but we must remember that Harrier dual tone is NOT an answer to Hector or Seltos. I think it is part of the product life cycle plan from Tata and they have just launched it. Even if Hector or Seltos would not have been in the picture, i am sure Tata would have launched the dual tone Harrier as planned.

And for those who think that offering a dual tone option is a very easy step for any manufacturer, things are not as easy as they look. The whole assembly and paint process gets changed. The line speed is impacted along with the Takt time. There are a lot of changes at the process level to incorporate this.

On the AT and other features part, i am sure Tata is working on it day and night and we will see something by the festive season.

[yd_gli]

Originally Posted by mindovermotor

When as a layman most of us can sense this I always wonder what are those who are being paid to make these decisions doing, are they really out of touch with the market?

They are not out of touch with the market. They know very well where they are lacking. Its just that the ability to provide multiple engine+transmission combinations is a result of decades of dedicated focus on R&D and technology development. Kia hasn't conjured up three engines and three transmissions overnight. For decades Tata focused only on cost reduction, took their market for granted and of course the internal politics. If they had focused on advanced development, recruited the best minds and created an innovation driven self sufficient culture two decades ago they wouldn't have had to go to FCA and Hyundai for engines and transmissions today. Even the chassis and part of the suspension has come from Land Rover R&D. Ownership of critical components is key to faster time to market metrics.

[volkman10]

TATA Upcoming 7-Seater spotted,







Source:

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by yd_gli

Ownership of critical components is key to faster time to market metrics.

True that. This is the area where Hyundai , Kia , MG etc have an obvious advantage over our home grown majors. One of the reasons why Hyundai gets their product right everytime is because they have the manufacturing know how of almost every critical component - Engines , auto transmissions etc. While Tata is still assembling products using their vendors. This could also be the reason why M&M XUV300 comes with an AMT. Both of them do not know own critical technology and is struggling to get the vendor backing. In a way this new found liking for ATs in Indian market is putting our homegrown companies in a spot of bother.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by volkman10

TATA Upcoming 7-Seater spotted,

Hope they change the front design a bit (changing the grill, bumper...) so that the 7 seater can be differentiated from a 5 seater when you view it even from the front. I can see the same grill design on these test vehicles.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Two years back we were all in the know that these two Marquee brands will be in India with fully laden cars.

Your points are valid, but Kia and Baojun are not ‘marquee brands’ by any stretch of imagination.

[Sebring]

Are you deliberately choosing to ignore 94 years of MG? KIA is very well recognized abroad. In fact, one of the top car brands in the Gulf.

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Your points are valid, but Kia and Baojun are not ‘marquee brands’ by any stretch of imagination.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Are you deliberately choosing to ignore 94 years of MG? KIA is very well recognized abroad. In fact, one of the top car brands in the Gulf.

Didn't the original MG die in the UK? And till such time as they were producing cars in the UK, they made a mess of things. I'm relying on what Jeremy Clarkson had to say about the overall death of the UK's automobile industry in general and MG in specific.

And speaking about Kia - Korean brands (including Hyundai) have an unsavory and undeserved low cost/low value perception in the US. They're beating back the Japanese competition with 10 year after-sales warranty and a good track record of course, but they have a ways to go yet before they can call themselves a marquee brand. Personally, I've always been amused at how Hyundai could start with a clean slate in India and establish themselves as a premium brand in India while they still languish as a perceived "cheap" brand in the US. I'm also wondering about the low resale value of the Korean brands in the US.

I have zero idea of how these brands are perceived in other markets, such as in the Gulf.

And speaking of the 7 seater Harrier ("Buzzard") - I really hope against hope that it comes with a usable 3rd row. But we already know it doesn't

[Sebring]

MG died, so did JAWA. That doesn't mean they are out of public memory. There are 500 owners of those original MG cars right here in India. In the new context the Brand should be meaningful to the customer. Second, it should be different from its peers. Third is innovation - excite the customers. Brands with higher love sustain themselves better, and (if dead) it's only a matter of time before they are re-discovered.

On your second point, a Korean brand is perched at number two in the Indian context, just because they provide value. If there was a quality issue would it sustain? Remember when the Santro was launched, not many gave it a fighting chance. Their rise is admirable.

Originally Posted by locusjag

Didn't the original MG die in the UK?

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Are you deliberately choosing to ignore 94 years of MG? KIA is very well recognized abroad. In fact, one of the top car brands in the Gulf.

No comment. We all know the story of ‘MG’ - Baojun/Wuling does not inherit anything by sticking a badge on the grille - you cannot manufacture heritage. And no, being popular in the gulf does not make Kia a marquee brand. Cheap and cheerful, yes.

[Sebring]

By your logic Tata Motors does not inherit anything by sticking a badge on the grill? Since they own LR and Jag. I'm amused that you consider cars that do well in the Gulf (one of the most mature markets) as 'cheap and cheerful'. Would love your definition of the word MARQUEE.

Originally Posted by Steeroid

No comment. We all know the story of ‘MG’ - Baojun/Wuling does not inherit anything by sticking a badge on the grille - you cannot manufacture heritage. And no, being popular in the gulf does not make Kia a marquee brand. Cheap and cheerful, yes.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by Sebring

By your logic Tata Motors does not inherit anything by sticking a badge on the grill? Since they own LR and Jag. I'm amused that you consider cars that do well in the Gulf (one of the most mature markets) as 'cheap and cheerful'. Would love your definition of the word MARQUEE.

From what little I know from a short stint in brand management, 'Marquee brands' are those, that have very high customer stickiness, or in other words a brand that customers love and don't give up on easily. Mercedes is a marquee brand. Inspite of their falling reliability scores in late 2000s, it never really lost its appeal as a brand. Kia & MG are not marquee brands by any stretch of imagination (atleast in the context of our markets)!

But, I do agree with the point you made in the original post. Marquee brands or not, Tata should have been better prepared to handle Kia & MG's entry!

[Sebring]

You're wrong there. Brands that enjoy stickiness enjoy Brand Equity not Marquee status. Marquee is a peer of nobility among brands, so in that sense your example of Mercedes holds true. This can come through legacy, as has passed on to the current MG. But enough of this really. I love the Harrier and wish it the very best, and like we agreed some quick action is required.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by Sebring

By your logic Tata Motors does not inherit anything by sticking a badge on the grill? Since they own LR and Jag. I'm amused that you consider cars that do well in the Gulf (one of the most mature markets) as 'cheap and cheerful'. Would love your definition of the word MARQUEE.

IMHO this is a pointless arguement as you assume that MG really exists - it died decades ago, and they were known for 2-seater roadsters, definitely not MUVs. This is like naming a commuter boat in the backwaters ‘The Titanic’ or ‘QE2’.

Tata Motors sticking on their own badge on a reengineered version of the Disco platform is a lot more credible than these guys sticking a Brit-sounding badge on a Chinese UV to take advantage of our ‘phoren’ obsession.

As for the rest of your post, I’ve lived in (and continue to) that neck of the woods for almost 16 years now.

Kia is not a marquee.