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Old 27th September 2019, 13:52   #76
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Default Re: Honda Civic : Official Review

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Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
Diesel which has been a slow seller, has 2.5Lac discount.
The Diesel not able to outsell the petrol despite much higher fuel efficiency seems to suggest that beyond the 20 lac segment having an automatic is critical.

What is the real world efficiency of the petrol CVT in a city like Mumbai? I was among those who felt Honda got it right by giving a petrol CVT and a manual diesel. After all the civic was supposed to be leaning towards an enthusiast's driving style and so a manual diesel made sense. The petrol CVT was clearly aimed to eat up any remaining sales of the Altis. Of course the engines and pricing made me zip it.
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Old 6th October 2019, 13:35   #77
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Why I bought a 2019 Honda Civic over its competitors…

Towards the beginning of 2019, I was on the lookout for a suitable replacement for my 2010 Honda City which had nearly 1 lakh Km on the odometer. ANHC continued to be a stable partner throughout its tenure. Mostly used in Bangalore city for my office commute, the City was an absolute pleasure to own and keep. Outstation rides were primarily to southern states during vacations and I have truly enjoyed the refined petrol motor for its smoothness, power delivery and silence. The manual transmission was a bliss with smooth clicking shifts and it never had a grind or miss during shifts. But time and age catches up and the body panels starting showing rust spots on the doors. Suspensions were aging and probably it was time to update the tie rods and spark plugs eventually.

Prior to the ANHC, I had an Opel Corsa and during the ownership of ANHC, we bought a Grand i10 for my wife. So a bit of brand, usage and ownership experience was in place through this limited exposure.

I was eager to try out a new brand this time and upgrade the segment.

My requirements were: Automatic transmission, Petrol motor, 1500 CC/+, Sedan/SUV, budget ~25 lakhs.

The options that filtered in were – Toyota Altis, Hyundai Elantra, Jeep Compass, Skoda Octavia, Honda Civic and some new ones like MG Hector.

I was quick to decide against Hyundai Elantra. No offence to others - but my ownership of a Grand i10, usage experience of a Sonata for some time in the US and the experience of my friends with Creta were reasons behind it. So I removed Hyundai from my list. Probably due to the cognitive bias that lingered in me, I wasn’t even eager to wait for the Kia Seltos. I was similarly not very convinced about MG Hector as it is a rebadged Baojun. My personal opinion is that instead of a splurge of gadgets in cars, these companies can focus more on refinement levels.

Toyota Altis was on its way out of the market. I was interested in the next revision of Corolla based on reviews. But that launch would be well into 2020. So I didn’t want to invest here.

Jeep Compass was a strong entrant. This vehicle does make a cut with ladies for some reason. Any research done here? My wife was in love with this vehicle . In most aspects I liked the vehicle too – ride, suspension, build, stability. But not the engine. The turbo charged 1.4 petrol mated to DCT was my option and I felt it was not a Jeep worthy combination. I also had concerns on Jeep’s legendary troubles with transmission. Considering that I was going to have frequent gear shifts due to bumper-to-bumper traffic in Bangalore and FCA’s negative service and maintenance reputation, I was simply apprehensive. But it was still on my list.

That brought it down to Skoda Octavia. Euro cars had a positive impact on my mind thanks to the Opel Corsa ownership. Stability, great power, solid build, great paint job (black colour), decent interior features and I was always in love with this vehicle.

Skoda Octavia : Absolute driving pleasure ! Excellent 1.8 TSI engine mated to a very responsive DSG gear box. Quick acceleration and response to foot taps. One will fall in love with the vehicle. You feel like this is it! The discounted L&K variant was loaded to the gills and felt like a very fast and luxurious battle tank. I was seemingly getting ready to consider this one and started my research. I went through detailed articles on wet-vs-dry gear boxes, maintenance cost charts and spare parts pricing, A/C compressor details to oil filters used and more.

And lo, my research showed not one, not ten, but hundreds of complaints on the DQ200 transmission failure, oil leakages, A/C compressor failures, excessive cost of spare parts and some unfriendly experiences at service centers including theft and missing original equipment. I spoke to few of my colleagues who are die-hard Skoda fans. A fan is someone who cannot give up on a brand, I realized that. They had issues with A/C compressor, alternators failing, oil leaks – but they sum it up saying their maintenance package was worthy enough because it was all covered. I explored more and that’s when I see that Skoda’s 4 year and now the 6 year Shield packages are exactly designed around this. Multiple things are going to fail, but the maintenance option may take care of it. The car could be in service center occasionally for days, but you may be cost insulated. When it runs, it’s a Stallion.

Reliability ? Big question mark
Cost ? Pay upfront and stay calm, hopefully.
Resale ? Well, use it and enjoy it.

The Skoda owners I talked to were of the opinion that if I buy an Octavia, I should enjoy it for 4-5 years and sell it off. Resale prices are generally low and hence they suggested that I should buy this preferably on lease, buy back at a lower price and sell off at margin. It seems that’s how they cut their loss. For me, going through this experience to enjoy a Skoda Octavia performance started to raise my eyebrows. A friend saw my confusion and said – just keep a look out for Skoda cars on the roads and asked me how many of the older Octavia I could count or even the relatively newer Laura. He asked me to also check how many Civics I could count. While it was a fun statement, I think it sat on my mind and I did do it. Honestly, you hardly spot an older Laura now. But you can find several 8th Gen Civics on the road in spite of it not being sold in India since 2013. So what’s wrong here?

I got back to Team BHP forums to read further on Skoda Octavia as it still held a spot in my mind. That’s when the new Honda Civic official review was posted on the forum. I lapped it up to see what Honda’s new offering is like.

I could rarely spot a Civic 2019 on the roads and hence not much of it was known. And the review by itself wasn’t exactly giving a great feeling about this car. The engine-gear box mating was the criticized piece. The comments that came on the review from first to second to subsequent pages almost were writing off this vehicle and it was a bruised bet compared to the Octavia. Slowly I started seeing this car on Bangalore roads and the coupe look was quite attractive to my liking. I went to the showroom to check it out in person as no one I knew had purchased it yet. Again, the overall appearance of the vehicle was looking very attractive to me. The interior looked smashing with spot on ergonomics, great fit and feel and an unusual style that was new to the Indian market. The layered dash and overall layout of the interior was nice, really nice! I decided to research some more on this vehicle in other forums.

My research took me through numerous videos done mostly as promos as part of the Indian launch in March while cars were driven through Bangalore’s Nandi hills. Almost all reviews were suggesting good vehicle stability, cornering, suspension quality, NVH levels, and refinement. But the Team-BHP review lingered on my mind. I have great consideration for the in-depth reviews on this forum.

So I stepped up the research and went through some US and Malaysian reviews of the Honda Civic. They sell the 1.5L TC and the 2.0L NA model in the US while the 1.8L NA is sold in Malaysia. These reviews were amazing and I felt they were balanced. They compared the Civic with Mazda 3, Elantra, VW Jetta etc. But it was quite nice to know that the Civic was scoring very well compared to its counterparts in many categories.

Braking : A-
Handling : A
Steering and Ride : B+
Cabin noise : B+
Fuel Economy : A
Acceleration : B- (this was the key focus I saw in Indian reviews)

I also researched through punch words used in Civic brochure like ACE body structure. It really had matter to it than mere mention. The use of high tensile steel at vantage places, the variations of strength at collision spots
and how the overall chassis is a composition of different tensile strengths to give rigidity and flexibility were a good-to-know fact. I don’t know if all cars have it. But the fact that we are getting the very same Honda Civic in chassis, frame, mechanicals and build just gave me a big confidence on this machine. Another fact - Civic has stayed in the top 2 in the US Compact Car segment and has been retaining this spot through 2016 to 2019. It cannot happen just like that in a car market that has world’s best known brands at every price point (of course, no Skoda though). Something had to be good about this vehicle for sure. My research didn’t want to rest on the US market laurels. So I browsed the Asian market and went through Malaysian reviews. They too were in full thumbs-up for the new Civic.

I would highly recommend reviews by – Alex on Autos (US) and Savage Geese (US).

Paul Tan’s (Malaysian) review was ok too.

Of course, by now I was in a positive state of influence. I decided to get a test drive myself and decide between Octavia and Civic.

My test drive gave me a first-hand experience of the low seating on the driver side. Quite low it is! But hey, I liked it. It was easy to find a good driving position between the seat, steering and pedals. The controls are placed spot-on at arm’s reach and the feeling is plush. Turn the engine on and the decibels are almost nil. Tap on the accelerator and the engine does feel peppy. It picks up with a characteristic CVT slowness though. This aspect is not comparable to the DSG of the Octavia. The engine stays peppy and the acceleration builds in a refined and composed way. But definitely not like the Octavia where it just races and lunges forward. Now I understand why the Team-BHP review said that the Civic is not for enthusiasts! Civic is not comparable to Octavia in terms of 0-100 acceleration. I think it can easily have a 2-3 second gap compared to the Octavia. That said, the ride was absolute plush in the Civic. The suspension is very good. Stability is almost like a vacuum grip on the roads. Braking is good and the steering was well weighted considering it’s an EPS. The CVT power distribution to the wheels is where the comparison goes awry between Civic and Octavia. The mid-range pull off is not great and hence you have to gun it to overtake during a tight lane split. But again, don’t get me wrong. It is good. In fact it is quite good. I am not very tall. So the ingress-egress aspects were not a big issue in my home. Sloping roofline wasn’t a concern either. We were completely ok with the boot space of 430L. In addition, Honda’s reliability is a well-known aspect and my Honda City ownership experience was testimony to this fact. We all loved the Civic very much after the test drive, though the Octavia charm was still around in my mind.

Now I was sure that my choice had to be between the Octavia and Civic. The questions that came in as a deciding factor were:

What is more important for me –Safety? Speed & Acceleration? Reliability? Spares, Service, Maintenance cost? Brand value?

I chose Reliability, Longevity, Ease and Cost of maintenance, and Brand value over Acceleration. Safety parameters were good in both (Airbags, Safety features, NCAP 5-star). I wasn’t sure of the resale value of Civic either to make it a decisive factor.

And the decision was made: It was a case of mind over heart. My heart was going towards Octavia for the sheer pleasure of acceleration, but I was convinced in my mind that the Civic would be a better long term companion for me.

I booked a Honda Civic ZX CVT, Golden Brown Metallic Color. This was the closest I could get to Black.

Took delivery during second week of August and I have done about 1500 KM by now. Kept to the 1K run-in period. Now, I have started going to 3000-3500 RPM and by 2K, I will take it beyond 4000 RPM. The first 1K has been a pleasant one. City drives mostly and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I also did the mandatory Nandi Hills drive !

My observations of the Civic 2019 :

Low NVH levels in city drives. Feels like a well-insulated cabin especially from the maddening noise on Bangalore’s roads.

Great suspension and cornering. The multi-link rear suspension does show a characteristic difference compared to struts and the car rides well on uneven roads. A wee bit stiff I would say, but still it glides without thuds. While doing the Nandi Hills drive, I felt the torque was good and the climb up was smooth. The car feels planted around the curves. Around ORR, there are some pretty bad roads around all the tech parks which I am forced to take sometimes. The car glides well through without getting hurt. The hurt is mostly in my heart!

Engine is peppy for the most part and it’s easy to start and go. I feel one needs to understand the CVT system to get the best performance out of it. If you prefer to use a heavy foot on the accelerator, you wouldn’t enjoy this vehicle. Build speed in a steady way and it gets very fast pretty soon. At higher RPMs, you can hear a muffled whining from the transmission-engine duo.

Mileage that I am able to extract is between 9 and 10 kmpl during city drives. I think the Econ mode may elicit another km or two, but the ORR traffic that I go through could be one reason for this mileage.

Air conditioning is quite effective and cools down the vehicle pretty fast.

Lane watch camera is not a farce! It does a great job in city drives especially with adjacent traffic that is hardly a feet aside on ORR. And hey, I was swiped by two bikers on the left ORVM which houses the camera. The touch point of the bike handles were above the camera spot. Lucky I would say.

Vehicle interiors are well lit due to ample light throw. Roomy, nice and comfortable seating. I didn’t find any issues due to the absence of lumbar support on the driver seat. Like I mentioned earlier, getting a good spot is easy to find in this car. Rear seat offers good under thigh support (for medium built folks) and lots of moving room. Please note that front passenger seat doesn’t have height adjustment and so they sit low. Within few rides your co-passenger gets used to it I felt memory seats would have been nice for the driver.

Many cubby holes and stashing spaces. But I haven’t made use of all that space yet.

Seamless Apple Car Play functionality. I highlight this because my friends with Hyundai vehicles complain a lot on losing links and connections to their system. Good quality audio system with 8 speakers. Might not be Canton like, but the tweeters and base speakers do a good job.

Tyre noise is quite noticeable at higher speeds. Yokohama Advan DB 215/50R17 tyres are expected to produce less noise as per product documentation. But I felt this isn’t so especially on concrete roads.

Good braking and stability. I had to once slam it hard while I was at about 90 odd because I missed to spot a speed breaker. The vehicle stopped as expected without any twists and fuss. Felt confident about picking-up speeds after that. Honda doesn’t offer the Sensing suite in full in the Indian Civic. Much of it isn’t useful in our ecosystem, but they did cut it off.

The brake hold feature is very useful in stop-and-go drive. Car stays on brake while in D mode and just tap the accelerator to move on. No need to shift to N or keep our foot on the brake. Relief !

Very good ground clearance. All the usual speed breakers that I used to scrape earlier are no longer touched by the Civic even with four adults on board. Though the overall height of the vehicle makes it look low slung, the combination of chassis height, wheel size and suspension seem to give this a better GC.

The vehicle is BS6 ready (petrol variant). I can see it on my RC records online.

Noticeable road presence. The vehicle does fetch attention on the roads. There is something good about the coupe look that yields stop-and-glance. I have also seen people commenting about the tail lights. The LED head lamps offer great visibility. The auto lamps and wipers have quick responses.

Overall, good exterior and interior fit and finish. You can feel the difference when compared to C segment cars. No corners have been cut.

If you wanted to evaluate this car and became unsure based on comments and reviews – I was exactly in your spot.

Do your research and get few test drives to see if it fits your liking. Fix your parameters. For me, a car spending days in service center awaiting the dispatch of parts and lack of reliability in general are drawbacks. I generally use my cars for 6-7 years. The TCO (Total Cost of Ownership – Purchase, Service, Spares, Resale) for a Civic may be lower compared to the Compass and Octavia.

I will share a detailed usage and ownership reviews after few highway rides and services are done.

Sharing few pictures of the vehicle. Maintaining this color is a challenge though.
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Old 7th October 2019, 13:22   #78
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Default Re: Honda Civic : Official Review

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Originally Posted by SDO View Post
Why I bought a 2019 Honda Civic over its competitors…


Took delivery during second week of August and I have done about 1500 KM by now. Kept to the 1K run-in period. Now, I have started going to 3000-3500 RPM and by 2K, I will take it beyond 4000 RPM. The first 1K has been a pleasant one. City drives mostly and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I also did the mandatory Nandi Hills drive !

My observations of the Civic 2019 :

Low NVH levels in city drives. Feels like a well-insulated cabin especially from the maddening noise on Bangalore’s roads.

Great suspension and cornering. The multi-link rear suspension does show a characteristic difference compared to struts and the car rides well on uneven roads. A wee bit stiff I would say, but still it glides without thuds. While doing the Nandi Hills drive, I felt the torque was good and the climb up was smooth. The car feels planted around the curves. Around ORR, there are some pretty bad roads around all the tech parks which I am forced to take sometimes. The car glides well through without getting hurt. The hurt is mostly in my heart!

I will share a detailed usage and ownership reviews after few highway rides and services are done.

Sharing few pictures of the vehicle. Maintaining this color is a challenge though.
Great short review!! Many congratulations on the new car looks lovely!!

I am also in the market for an automatic sedan. I would like to know how was your dealership experience? What was your on road price and did you get any discounts?

thanks in advance!
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Old 9th October 2019, 08:39   #79
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Default Re: Honda Civic : Official Review

Honda Civic is the leader in September-19 sales. Beats SKoda Octavia by a comfortable margin.

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Old 9th October 2019, 12:08   #80
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Default Re: Honda Civic : Official Review

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Originally Posted by SDO View Post
Why I bought a 2019 Honda Civic over its competitors…
Within that budget, it is very difficult to overlook the Skoda Octavia, especially with the TSI + DSG combo. But I think you made a sensible, safe choice with the CIVIC, for long term, fuss free ownership. I can say this from my 10 years of ownership. My 2009 8th Civic (face-lift) is gem of a car, had been a trouble free car! No major parts had been replaced, apart from 2 batteries in its 50k kms run. And it has held up really well all these years, that when I stop for refueling or PUC check, often people confused it for a new car, asking what model is it . All the best with your CIVIC
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Old 9th October 2019, 17:19   #81
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Great short review!! Many congratulations on the new car looks lovely!!

I am also in the market for an automatic sedan. I would like to know how was your dealership experience? What was your on road price and did you get any discounts?

thanks in advance!
Thanks

I enquired the prices at three dealerships. The deciding factor came down to the dealership which offered me the highest quote on my outgoing car. The other experiences were pretty usual I would say. My general feel is that dealerships should invest a bit more in training and evaluating their SAs on features of a new car vis-a-vis the competition in its segment so that a more meaningful discussion can take place. This wasn't the case in all three I felt. With lots of reading, we tend to walk-in with more info than dealerships have.

On the sale aspects, Saphire Honda in Bangalore was the one I finalized. They are relatively new entrants. But their sales approach was more aggressive. While I was probing and insisting on getting better prices and discounts with the SA, he asked for a minute's break and then he was accompanied by the Director and Manager of the showroom. So there I was, sitting around a table with these three to negotiate a price. I sought for Exchange bonus, Corporate Discount, Loyalty bonus, accessories and a better quote for my exchange value. They were ready to discuss and presented their options. We concluded at this :

CASH & CORPORATE DISCOUNT 57,000.00
AFTER DISCOUNT Ex Showroom 2,067,800.00
Plus road tax, comprehensive insurance, third-party, TCS etc.
Total was a notch below 26L.

The diesel variant has more discounts and the V variant in petrol as well. The ZX CVT variant seems to be the one selling the most. This month has even better discounts.
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Old 9th October 2019, 17:27   #82
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Honda Civic is the leader in September-19 sales. Beats SKoda Octavia by a comfortable margin.

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It's tough to choose against the Octavia. But I guess the impending model change in 2020 and BS4 could be factors around it. Plus as I quote in my post, once you fix your priority, things sort out well between the two. The overall likability around Civic seems to be improving. I can now spot many more Civics in Bangalore. May be till the new Octavia comes out

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Old 13th October 2019, 14:01   #83
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I have read that V variant is offered around 2 lakh cash discount now. Does that bring V petrol into a better VFM proposition with these discount?
Any idea whether discount will be on ex showroom or OTR price?
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Old 14th October 2019, 21:18   #84
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I have read that V variant is offered around 2 lakh cash discount now. Does that bring V petrol into a better VFM proposition with these discount?
Any idea whether discount will be on ex showroom or OTR price?
Discount is on ex showroom price
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Old 15th October 2019, 14:29   #85
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Thanks

I enquired the prices at three dealerships. The deciding factor came down to the dealership which offered me the highest quote on my outgoing car.

The diesel variant has more discounts and the V variant in petrol as well. The ZX CVT variant seems to be the one selling the most. This month has even better discounts.
Thanks SDO! I really appreciate your detailed inputs.
One more query, what was the month of manufacture of your ZX did you get a current month or slightly older?

The reason I ask this I planning on a V CVT petrol and they tell me it is April 2019 month of manufacture. Not sure if it is ok to go ahead. Apparently the 2 lakh discount is for the fact that the car is in stocks and not selling.

Valuable inputs from the team is much appreciated for the above question!

thanks in advance!
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Old 15th October 2019, 17:02   #86
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Thanks SDO! I really appreciate your detailed inputs.
One more query, what was the month of manufacture of your ZX did you get a current month or slightly older?
My car shows a manufacturing date of late 15th May, dispatch dates of mid-July and I took delivery by Aug. I had seen a dispatch paper in the car during the PDI visit. So in a sense I got a two month old car.

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

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Old 18th October 2019, 15:40   #87
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One more query, what was the month of manufacture of your ZX did you get a current month or slightly older?

The reason I ask this I planning on a V CVT petrol and they tell me it is April 2019 month of manufacture. Not sure if it is ok to go ahead. Apparently the 2 lakh discount is for the fact that the car is in stocks and not selling.
Hey, bought a V CVT last week under this offer - mine is March manufactured, and yes you are right - the V variant sells the least and is currently discounted since they want to clear stocks. Having said that, the discount puts the V variant (pretty much decently loaded) in the VFM spot and that was our primary decision-maker. Else we were not really finding a convincing upgrade for the almost 11-year-old ANHC.

Have not faced any problems with the car being March manufactured.
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Old 21st October 2019, 15:17   #88
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Hey, bought a V CVT last week under this offer - mine is March manufactured, and yes you are right - the V variant sells the least and is currently discounted since they want to clear stocks.

Have not faced any problems with the car being March manufactured.
Congratulations Sugam! It is indeed a smart choice to go the V CVT with the discount.
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Old 21st October 2019, 16:31   #89
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Hey, bought a V CVT last week under this offer - mine is March manufactured, and yes you are right - the V variant sells the least and is currently discounted since they want to clear stocks. Having said that, the discount puts the V variant (pretty much decently loaded) in the VFM spot and that was our primary decision-maker. Else we were not really finding a convincing upgrade for the almost 11-year-old ANHC.

Have not faced any problems with the car being March manufactured.
Sir, during your purchase process were you made aware of any discounts on the petrol ZX variant? I'm considering to buy this car in the coming weeks. Thanks in advance.
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Old 22nd October 2019, 05:48   #90
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Sir, during your purchase process were you made aware of any discounts on the petrol ZX variant? I'm considering to buy this car in the coming weeks. Thanks in advance.

Most dealers are offering 1 Lakh+ cash discounts on VX and ZX variants with March/April manufacturing date. After inquiring around with several dealers in Hyderabad, I have not come across any dealer offering any Civic vehicle variant with a manufacturing date more recent than April 2019
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