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Old 6th May 2020, 20:15   #46
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Default Re: Kia Carnival : Official Review

Oh my, I saw my second ever Carnival today in Sahakarnagar, BLR and it was amazing. New whiteboard driven by an owner I think.

Beautiful elegant EXPENSIVE looks, something even the highest Crysta is unable to achieve even 25%.

I hope it succeeds big time!
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Old 6th May 2020, 21:02   #47
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Default Re: Kia Carnival : Official Review

Starex launch seems far away. With Carnival, KIA is not at all competing with Innova Crysta but trying to aim for a new luxury MPV segment. (As compared to Crysta) Carnival's smaller yet more powerful and more torqued engine along with bucket full of features offered do justify the higher price point. Carnival managed to get 3500+ bookings in short time. Indeed, good start for a new entrant. It will be interesting to see the sales performance once initial buyer's saturation is over.
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Old 6th May 2020, 22:11   #48
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Default Re: Kia Carnival : Official Review

An excellent and very detailed review of the car that has single-handedly introduced a new segment in our market. .

I like how they call this segment in the US: 'Minivans'. Such a segment really don't exist in western EU or I guess from EU OEMs in general. Sure there is VW Transporter, Merc V-class etc, but their base designs are more of commercial load-carrier vans which are later adapted to accept passenger seats. They do make excellent base for camper conversions though. On the other hand, there is (soon to be 'was') a segment of large family friendly MPVs (with car underpinnings) like VW Sharan, Ford Galaxy etc. But these relative large cars are still dwarfed next to 'minivans' like the Carnival. I have seen these 'minivans' mostly in EU mostly with diplomatic plates (like North-American spec vehicles).

Can anyone confirm if the Carnival is currently a CKD product? Or is there full scope of manufacturing with dedicated Press & Weld shops? I am also equally curious to know why Kia decided to stick with only three colours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiragM View Post
To fill this empty space in the Indian market, the Carnival was brought here, while other manufacturers are caught napping. For example, Honda and Toyota have the Odyssey and Sienna MPVs in the same segment in international markets. The Carnival targets those rich folk who have money for something more than the Innova for a proper + luxury + practical MPV.
Now even if Toyota or Honda wanted to cash in this segment, do they have an engine that the Indian customer would appreciate? Both the Odyssey and Toyota are paired with 3.5L V6 petrols. Powerful units, but not efficient considering fuel pricing in India. If I'm not mistaken, neither Toyota nor Honda have a large enough diesel engine anymore (for front transverse application) that is also EU6 compliant. Hybrid could be an option, but that is significantly pushing costs, return of investments and level of localisation achievable.

The other engine option of Carnival in global market is the 3.3L GDI V6 petrol (also mated to the same 8-speed transmission). I highly doubt if our market would have shown the same reception if it was launched only with the petrol engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiragM View Post
It is rather careless of Kia to have tuned the steering in the opposite way of how it should be (light at parking speeds, firm at high speeds). I am disappointed with this because tuning a steering's weight is the easiest thing to do & I hope Kia fixes this on the Carnival soon.
Carnival has a hydraulic power steering setup. Unlike an EPS system, I don't expect it to be easy/cost-efficient to play with steering feedback characteristics of a hydraulic system (while maintaining the same hardware), especially for a vehicle that is already in mass production for some years.

Engine-bay picture with what I believe is the power steering fluid reservoir:
Kia Carnival : Official Review-kia-carnival-power-steering-fluid-reservoir.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiragM View Post

• 60-liter fuel tank is too small for such a grand tourer. I would’ve expected a 75 - 80 liter tank here (which the USA Sedona gets, by the way).
Despite having a 80L tank, I think realistic range would be quite the same or even marginally lesser for 3.3L petrol version of the Sedona (US).

Was looking at the specs of the Carnival in Australia, where they sell both the diesel and the petrol variants. Interestingly, there they get 80L tanks for both the diesel and petrol variants (see here).
I don't think 60L tank for Indian version is a cost-cutting measure. My guess is that the fuel tank shape would have been adapted to accommodate the additional SCR/Ad-blue tank. Australia is still EU5 (do not need SCR). India is currently ahead in emission legislation (BS6, comparable to EU6).

Based on the following picture posted by bhp-ian Bibendum90949 , I have highlighted what I think is the Adblue/SCR fluid reservoir.
Kia Carnival : Official Review-kia-carnival-scr-tank.jpeg
Perhaps presence of this SCR tank for BS6 compliance meant that Kia had to shorten the original fuel tank design (which is likely giving the 80L capacity for petrol versions as well as the EU5 diesel version). Maybe someone else can confirm my hypothesis.

Cheers,
Avinash

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
This is an under body picture of a Carnival in a hydraulic lifter which I clicked when I went to service my Seltos.
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Old 6th May 2020, 22:30   #49
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Default Re: Kia Carnival : Official Review

Excellent review- rating it 5*. The car seems too big for narrow Indian streets. How does it fit in standard parking slots in malls, apartments, and other public places?

Expect Toyota to closely watch the market performance of the Carnival and launch the Sienna (with a V6 petrol) at 60 lakhs
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiragM View Post
Basic manual adjustments for your spouse / date. Should have been electric too, for a car in this price range:
I'd love to meet the man (young or old) who took a mommy wagon for a date.
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Originally Posted by skendora View Post
Why this monstrosity on a luxury MPV. I feel I would put a foot on that subconsciously
Don't worry, it's not so easy to mistake the foot operated parking brake for the clutch. They are much higher up (~3-4 inches) when released. I've driven a rental camry with one for over 2000 miles and never faced any issue.

Last edited by landcruiser123 : 6th May 2020 at 22:41.
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Old 7th May 2020, 02:36   #50
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Default Re: Kia Carnival : Official Review

An oil-burner makes sense considering the curb weight and a full complement of passengers plus luggage and power required to move the 2.5 ton vehicle - BUT must admit I was surprised with this offering. A price tag such as this will have owners with deep pockets who would not care about petrol v/s diesel.

I have been a US mini-van owner in the past and that too a Carnival (Sedona in the US) - being a 'minivan' vehicle owner is an experience. Excepting performance, nothing comes close to the versatility of a minivan. Long distance drives, airport runs, school car pooling, cargo runs etc. Yes, a full size SUV can do this too, but the word Soccermom is rooted in this vehicle type!! There is a family aspect instilled in here. There was even a folding table offered in an earlier Chrysler minivan for families to bond.

While I am digressing from the topic, I believe the Indian affluent have welcomed this kind of an offering and would not be surprised if others start bringing their products here. Maybe the Odyssey?

BE SAFE!

Last edited by mmxylorider : 7th May 2020 at 02:38.
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Old 7th May 2020, 13:17   #51
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Default Re: Kia Carnival : Official Review

Excellent and very detailed and useful review Team Bhp, rated 5 stars.

Being a Crysta owner, while I was still in the research phase prior to make the buying decision, I eyed the Carnival a lot for its road presence and grandeur of features inside which Innova lacked. Also the Carnival had massive boot even with a more spacious 3rd row up than the Innova and more than performance or drivability I was willing to consider space and passenger comfort.

If this was launched a year back may be I would have given it a thought although it was way above my budget, in Kolkata the G Variant 8 seater 2.8 automatic Innova costed me around 20 Lakh OTR while the 8 seater automatic Kia is 28 Lakh OTR. Additionally Kia aftersales is still not time tested in India and wanted to play safe considering I am a keeper and my experience with Hyundai / Korean cars post 5th year is not so sweet in terms of service.

But another thing which would have held me back if both were in the market back then would be the Rear Wheel Drive advantage of the Innova and its time tested IMV platform which is shared with light pickup trucks and can handle abuse. This abuse handling capability is what had additionally made the Innova popular especially in the commercial segment added to rear wheel drive that makes it almost an all terrain vehicle even if hills.

I believe unless we bring comparison with the upcoming version of the Carnival which is heard of having all wheel drive option the present avatar will not attract the potential Fortuner or Endeavor buyers (even those who buy the 2 wheel drive version of the SUVs).
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Old 7th May 2020, 13:57   #52
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Default Re: Kia Carnival : Official Review

Lovely review as always guys, just one question, what does a Urea monitor do?
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Old 7th May 2020, 14:29   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stribog View Post
just one question, what does a Urea monitor do?
It indicates the Ad Blue level in its tank ( just like a fuel gauge ). With BS 6 emission norms having kicked in, it's a term which we will start to hear often. More on Ad blue below.

https://www.driving.co.uk/car-clinic...esel-cars-use/

Quote:
What is AdBlue?

One of the latest techniques used to clean up diesel emissions is known as selective catalytic reduction (SCR). A solution of urea in water is used to treat exhaust gases and remove harmful pollutants, including nitrogen oxides(NOx), of which nitrogen dioxide (NO2) is the most harmful.

The fluid used in most vehicles is known as AdBlue, a registered trademark owned by the German Association of the Automobile Industry (VDA), which ensures standards are maintained. The fluid is stored in a tank in the car, but unlike petrol or diesel it is not injected into the engine; instead it is fed into part of the vehicle’s exhaust. A chemical reaction converts the harmful NOx exhaust gases into harmless nitrogen and water.

What cars use AdBlue?

New technology such as SCR and AdBlue is still found mainly in large, expensive diesel models. That is because the system is both too large and too expensive to squeeze into small runabouts.

In tests, small diesel cars without SCR, such as the 2016 Volkswagen Polo 1.4 TDI, have been found to be as toxic as a fully laden lorry. In measurements taken by Leeds University’s Institute of Transport Studies, the Polo emitted 1.2g of NO2 per kilometre travelled, which is the same as a fully laden diesel lorry with a 13-litre engine.

How do I know if my car uses AdBlue?

When you buy a new or used diesel car from a dealership, the sales person should explain what features it has and specifically whether it uses AdBlue. Some cars have a blue or black screw cap for AdBlue next to the black diesel filler cap. In others, the cap is*in the boot, or in the engine compartment. The vehicle handbook will explain the requirements of your car’s system.

How often do you need to refill the AdBlue?


The tank that holds the AdBlue solution varies in size between makes and models of car. As a guide, a Volkswagen Tiguan SUV and Passat family car have a 12 and 13-litre AdBlue tank respectively.

The rate it is consumed depends on the driving style; the more economical drivers are, the slower it will be used up. VW estimates that the Tiguan and Passat use 1.5 litres of AdBlue every 620 miles, and suggests that a tankful of AdBlue gives a driving range of 3,000-4,000 miles for the Tiguan, and 4,000-6,500 miles for the Passat.

By contrast, Peugeot estimates that its cars can travel 12,000 miles between refills — the same as its servicing intervals.

How will drivers know if AdBlue needs topping up?

The car’s driver information display screen should flash up warnings, much as it would if fuel or windscreen washer fluid were low.Failing to act on these warnings will ultimately result in the car refusing to start until the AdBlue tank is filled.

Can drivers refill it themselves, and how much does it cost?

Garages should refill AdBlue as part of a diesel car’s routine servicing. However, it’s possible to refill a tank of AdBlue yourself.

Some service stations have AdBlue dispensing pumps. Alternatively, garages and filling stations sell portable containers of AdBlue, as do many online retailers, such as Amazon.co.uk (click here) and Halfords.com (click here). Prices start at roughly £5 for a 4.7-litre container.

Some car makers, including Peugeot, suggest you take the car to a dealer, which will do a refill for a fixed price of £9.99. Vauxhall offers to waive any labour charge if drivers bring their car in for a top-up.

Emergency top-up bottles of AdBlue

Some high-mileage drivers carry 1-litre emergency bottles of AdBlue in the boot of their car, safe in the knowledge that should they need to fill the system at short notice, they will be able to do so. The fluid is corrosive, so some car companies do not recommend this.

AdBlue and your car’s warranty

If your car has a warranty, it is important to use branded AdBlue solution. For any solution to use this trademark, it must comply with certain standards that vehicle manufacturers’ SCR systems rely on. Failing to do so could invalidate the warranty.



Last edited by Bibendum90949 : 7th May 2020 at 14:39. Reason: spacing corrected ; more points added
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Old 7th May 2020, 14:35   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
It indicates the Ad Blue level in its tank ( just like a fuel gauge ). More on Ad blue below. With BS 6 emission norms having kicked in, it's a term which we will start to hear
Interesting, thanks.

And wanted to ask you, you said you got rear sun blinds? Is this for the rear windows (which I have) or for the rear windshield?
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Old 7th May 2020, 14:43   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stribog View Post
Interesting, thanks.

And wanted to ask you, you said you got rear sun blinds? Is this for the rear windows (which I have) or for the rear windshield?
Guessing this query is for my post on Seltos' service experience thread. Yes it's the rear windshield blinds, a KIA accessory.

Note sure if mods will pull us up for discussing Seltos in a Carnival thread
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Old 7th May 2020, 21:17   #56
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Default Re: Kia Carnival : Official Review

I went to check this car couple of weeks before the lockdown was implemented. First thing that struck me was the sheer length of this car. I knew from the specs sheet that this was going to be a long car but to see the car in person is something different. If all the seats are removed, this car can be used as a small school bus or an ambulance. This can be an ideal car for someone who is buying third or fourth car for his collection but not good for a regular primary usage. Interior is really good. I mean quality of materials is not just a segment above Innova, I would say a segment above Fortuner and Endeavour and may be close to Kodiaq. Kia has been really impressive with their first two launches. If they can keep this momentum going and launch a couple of more cars with this kind of value for money proposition, their position in the top 5 will be sealed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiragM View Post
Other Points
• Yikes! The Carnival comes with just three colour options - Aurora Black Pearl, Steel Silver and Glacier White Pearl. Indians have usually suffered a poor choice of colours & we rarely see interesting shades like metallic green etc. here. But this is dropping it to another level.
This trend is quickly catching up. Ford has discontinued all the other shades for BS-6 Endeavour except black, white and diffused silver. I wonder what stops manufacturers from providing all the colour options in their expensive models when their cheaper models already have them.

Last edited by Carpainter : 7th May 2020 at 21:18.
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Old 7th May 2020, 21:21   #57
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Default Re: Kia Carnival : Official Review

Despite being 25 lakh plus cars each, the Carnival settles for a lap belt for the third row middle passenger (Crysta has a pull down 3 point seatbelt if I am not mistaken) and while the Crysta is stuck in a time warp with rear drum brakes; the Carnival has discs.

Sad that the customer still has to compromise!
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Old 7th May 2020, 21:49   #58
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I see how our mods have been appreciating the engine-gearbox combo with their multiple mentions of “Paddle Shifters” which is pretty much reassuring the prospective buyers to go in head-on with the purchase

Kia has been doing wonders and hope their CSUV next makes the same impact. Good luck Kia!
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Old 7th May 2020, 21:55   #59
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Default Re: Kia Carnival : Official Review

Brilliant Review Gentlemen. Much awaited too!

As a current owner of the Crysta this would perhaps be a logical upgrade for me. The car looks smashing in the pictures and i saw a white one before launch and it is as beautiful as a van can get. Presence is something else even though the size will be a huge pain in our congested cities.

As tempting as the Carnival is I am wee bit disappointed with the interiors given what the Seltos offers at a much lower price point. Skimping of some of the features in comparison to the cheaper Seltos also doesn't bode well for what is a 40 lac car effectively.

I have the same grouse with KIA as I had with Toyota when they launched the Crysta, the seating options on the top of the line variant are a bit of a let down as i would really have preferred a bench in the middle row. It is one of the reasons i didn't choose the ZX on the Crysta.

The pricing spread of 9 lacs amongst variants is also something I am unable to digest. Maybe it is a problem with me but given the price of the lowest variant the top variant goes quite nuts so there is no specific appeal on which one to buy. Perhaps the middle variant with 9 seats is what i would zero in on all things considered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by //M View Post
The Carnival is indeed a massive vehicle and looks so much better than the aging Innova Crysta.
As a Crysta owner reading this hurts a lot

Quote:
Originally Posted by //M View Post
There is a black Carnival in my neighborhood and it looks quite gangsta
Black one indeed looks special in pictures and will be my pick if an when the time comes.

I am not sure I am someone who has the gall to buy an Endy and take it offroad. Keeping the entire family in mind they'd love being in a Carnival than an Endy I'd imagine. So if I do have 40 large ones to spend on a 7 seater car it would probably be the Carnival. I hope KIA brings the next generation Carnival in a couple of years time and doesn't take forever to being it post the international launch.

As things stand I am in awe of both the current KIA offerings in the Indian market and it is an amazing success story in this market. I am looking forward to the Sonet and may be a customer for that car before anything else. More power to KIA for they way they've gone about things in our market!

P.S. I feel the Carnival may be introduced and see a lot of success in the self drive rental market. I see many folks wanting such a car for airport or out of town runs but may not want to own this behemoth as a daily driver.
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Old 8th May 2020, 06:36   #60
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Default Re: Kia Carnival : Official Review

Excellent post Team!

I fell in love with the Carnival (Petrol) after hiring it last year for road trips in New South Wales and Queensland touring with 7 on board and abundant luggage. Though it looks huge, the handling and driving comfort was excellent and I did not feel like driving a MPV. Having said that, it will be a challenge on driving it on Indian Roads as a daily driver. But will be best suited for long drives without scrapping the under body.
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