[andafunda]

Originally Posted by venkyhere

every car (especially if a totally new car model) will have its share of niggles and issues, only the degree and number of the issues will vary. There is even a TBHP thread about a Merdeces GLE needing "engine replacement". However, the problems that people are discovering with tata are 'fundamental engineering issues' and not 'complex electronics/robotics failure'.

Since Volkswagen and Skoda are considered God's angels on this forum, let me give my experience of their "well built" cars in our family (Rapid, Polo, Vento):

1. In all 3 cars, the seat belt holder started making a clattering noise within the first few days. A small niggle that got fixed, but certainly no complex robotics issue - SA said this is a common issue they have been highlighting upwards

2. Multiple ABS sensors have failed and been replaced in all cars within 3 years of ownership - 20K expense for each car - Skoda SA says these are just bad quality sensors. The new ones that were fitted on all cars are fine, but I am down 60K

3. The back seat started making an irritating noise in 2 of the 3 cars, within the first few days. Again a common problem and fix, but surprised "god level alpha beta gamma" QC of VAG hadn't sorted this

4. Terrible attitude towards customers and inclination to fleece them at every instance


Yes, Tata should up their game on QC - Harrier has had issues with brake pads, infotainment system and now this issue - but atleast the person affected got a call from Tata Motors. Niggles will happen, but if manufacturers actively help solve problems, then they are doing a decent job.

With Skoda, apart from the kindness of the CEO towards us "natives" by replying on Twitter, nothing happens. One just gets re-routed to the dealer.

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by andafunda

Since Volkswagen and Skoda are considered God's angels on this forum, let me give my experience of their "well built" cars in our family (Rapid, Polo, Vento):

Are you sure that the Germans are considered angels on this forum? I have not seen that sentiment expressed in here at all.

At most you can find people raving about their build quality (this is not the same as reliability), ride quality and stability at high speeds. But, reliability nope.

You can even see ownership reviews justifying the purchase of Skoda despite their niggles and the dealerships tendency to fleece people (I think the first time i heard the term 'Stealership' was for a Skoda dealer) by saying that they feel great to drive.

I have seen this sentiment (that Team-BHP guys think only Germans/expensive cars are the best and everything else is meh!) on online review sites like mouthshut.com. I can assure you that those guys were just people frustrated at being denied a membership and like to vent on other forums.

TATA does tend to get more bashing from its detractors (a part of it is justified from former owners ...telling them that TATA today is amazing is of no comfort to them) but you can similar threads for the Germans, Renault and even Hyundai.

[andafunda]

Originally Posted by JithinR

Are you sure that the Germans are considered angels on this forum? I have not seen that sentiment expressed in here at all.

At most you can find people raving about their build quality (this is not the same as reliability), ride quality and stability at high speeds. But, reliability nope.

Build quality should also ideally extend to cheap material used for and design of seats and seat belts.

We have had a Tata Car in the house in the past and faced our fair share of issues as well, however what differentiates Tata from others is that even a bit of an escalation works wonders in their case.

I am legally not allowed to talk about it in public, but trust me I've experienced this first hand at a Group board level. Not a car purchase but for something even more substantial and permanent.

[greyhound82]

my observation in working as a startup entrepreneur in automating quality inspection in the automotive sector. We worked with VW, Honda, Mahindra, FCA, Bajaj and TATA and a couple of component manufacturers

The multinational factories in india are no where near automation when compared to their factories abroad

1. Most of the quality process is manual. The workers are mostly contract labour and heard stories of workers pushing in clothes and other stuff in pipes in revenge for a scolding from the supervisor. I remember one union leader telling the company to invest in washrooms rather than technology. It's complex out there in reality.

2. End of the day automating quality inspection is a big challenge because the QC head has to prove this in terms of ROI which is difficult as the initial investment is large. On average it will take 2 years. He will check a bead geometry with one guy paying 10k/month rather than investing 15 - 20 lakhs for the automation system. Some parts might fail in shower testing or in extreme cases, it will reach customer. So the decision maker is CFO

3. Sometimes newly introduced quality process will delay the production, so production people will bypass the quality process . End of the day he has to achieve his target and production team rules the floor

4. In a major home grown manufacturer's factory, the union leader was dead against automation as they thought the cameras we place for capturing the data is for monitoring the employees. During night shift the factory people itself told me that, there is chance of QC lapses when i told him about a recent water leakage issue

5. With repsect to factory cleanliness and production process Honda , then VW and then our home grown .

6. Bajaj is the one manufacturer who adopted latest manufacturing technologies on the floor. I literally got amazed by their adoption. They are even assembling robots for thier vendors and they have inhouse automation team for of the shelf problems.They are miles ahead in vision when comapred to other automotive manufacturer's

To moderator : Please delete this post if there is no value addition to discussion

[greyhound82]

I am facing a particular issue related to Tata Harrier. The RTO- Bhopal told us that there is no Sparkle Coca color for TATA Harrier, so they cant issue number plates .
My dealer is also not helpful as he is advising us to wait. But we have to apply for an e-pass for Kerala for our upcoming trip, have to apply for fast tag too
Either TATA is not updated or there is some issue with the government servers. Please guide me what to do

[JithinR]

Originally Posted by andafunda

Build quality should also ideally extend to cheap material used for and design of seats and seat belts.

We have had a Tata Car in the house in the past and faced our fair share of issues as well, however what differentiates Tata from others is that even a bit of an escalation works wonders in their case.

For me build quality and reliability are two inter-dependent but ultimately different terms. Skoda/Volkswagen are deemed to have excellent build quality (even though it seems that for some components like suspension parts the Volkswagen group has degraded from Sachs setups to Gabriel) but not reliability.

I do agree that it's much better to deal with an organization that has honest people working from top to bottom of the organization structure rather than having to escalate everything to the CEO or Senior Management.

But my initial post was to dispel any notion that you may have that Team-Bhp members consider Volkswagen/Skoda as reliable steeds (I have not felt this to be the case). You can go through multiple threads in the forum and see for yourself.

Originally Posted by greyhound82

I am facing a particular issue related to Tata Harrier. The RTO- Bhopal told us that there is no Sparkle Coca color for TATA Harrier, so they cant issue number plates .
My dealer is also not helpful as he is advising us to wait. But we have to apply for an e-pass for Kerala for our upcoming trip, have to apply for fast tag too
Either TATA is not updated or there is some issue with the government servers. Please guide me what to do

Did you mean that the RTO can't register the car as of now?

It sounds like the RTO database doesn't have the color tagged against Tata Harrier (If my memory is not wrong this is a new color for the Harrier). Unless you know someone higher up in the RTO, the dealer would be better placed to push this through. After all, we do pay registrant/handling charges to dealers to sort out issues like this.

Tagging TATA on twitter (even though it's tedious to do it again) would also move things along faster. Ideally, the RTO databases should have been updated before customers started receiving their cars.

Hope that it works out for you and you are able to spend some quality time with your family after all this.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by greyhound82

I am facing a particular issue related to Tata Harrier. The RTO- Bhopal told us that there is no Sparkle Coca color for TATA Harrier, so they cant issue number plates .
My dealer is also not helpful as he is advising us to wait. But we have to apply for an e-pass for Kerala for our upcoming trip, have to apply for fast tag too
Either TATA is not updated or there is some issue with the government servers. Please guide me what to do

When a new model gets launched, it is not present in the local RTO IT systems for them to tag it to the vehicles coming in for registration. Usually there is some delay in getting the details entered into the systems for the first time by the concerned officials and this process is usually fast tracked by some ahem palm greasing, on the side of the dealer. Keep putting pressure on the dealership to get this moving from their end to the RTO officials and to complete the formalities at the earliest. Speak to some of the higher ups in the CRM chain to see what can be done given your Kerala trip that is pending.

[Sebring]

The tail lights look snazzy and sharp. They also just out and one should be careful so as to not graze the housing society parking areas

[Torquedo]

Originally Posted by pseudo_coder

I think the real reason is that he wants to save my money

Hey Pseudo -

Much appreciate your love for the Tata's but if my memory dates back correctly, you had booked a Nexon EV, a Harrier and now looking at the Altroz, what's cooking mate

With pun intended, you'd not want to live with your handle being literally meant, here.

Would love to see your pic taking a Tata home.

Now that you've posted on Hexa and we are talking Harrier here, being an ex-Hexa owner and having test driven the 170 Harrier, my 2 cents would suggest, look for a pre worshipped Hexa on OLX or cars24 rather than splurging that extra bit on a brand new Harrier. It rides better, has soft bits on the dashboard, feels better put together, overall experience is way better on the Hexa.

The above said shall keep your dad happy too.

Do let us know once you get the keys home.

Cheers Mate.

[pseudo_coder]

Originally Posted by Torquedo

Hey Pseudo -

Much appreciate your love for the Tata's but if my memory dates back correctly, you had booked a Nexon EV, a Harrier and now looking at the Altroz, what's cooking mate

Yup, your memory is perfect! To say that I am a confused soul would be an understatement. One reason could be that I bought an Ecosport AT 2 years ago, and later didn't like it that much and sold off within a year. So a bit afraid now.

Originally Posted by Torquedo

Now that you've posted on Hexa and we are talking Harrier here, being an ex-Hexa owner and having test driven the 170 Harrier, my 2 cents would suggest, look for a pre worshipped Hexa on OLX or cars24 rather than splurging that extra bit on a brand new Harrier. It rides better, has soft bits on the dashboard, feels better put together, overall experience is way better on the Hexa.

Agree, although I think handling is much better in Harrier. I have even shortlisted one listing. The issue is - I had made full payment to the dealer for Nexon EV, most of it by credit card. Then I cancelled the booking, and the dealer didn't accept the payment, and it got reversed. Meanwhile I had cleared the credit card bill. So a big amount is now stuck in credit card, and I think the only way to take it out is to spend it somewhere. If I don't buy a new car, it may take me more than two years to spend it fully.

But yes, looking at the overall saving of lakhs, the loss of a few thousand in interest isn't that bad.

[Torquedo]

Originally Posted by pseudo_coder

I bought an Ecosport AT 2 years ago, and later didn't like it that much and sold off within a year.
If I don't buy a new car, it may take me more than two years to spend it fully.

Woah, woah, now I get where your dad is coming from. Pardon me, your decisions have been miserable to say the least and you have gotten yourself into a messier position with the CC saga. Bro, for heaven's sake please don't toy around with your hard earned money like that, you seem to be still in your teens (money wise).

Let's move on, Harrier ought to be a better handler thanks to it being monocoque whereas the Hexa is body on frame. With this said -

1) Do you intend to corner crave either of these 2.
2) With he Harrier you miss on the RWD, which at a used Hexa price would be stupendous.
3) You might get a Hexa XE or XM at the price of a top end Altroz Diesel, petrol is anyways....
4) Take it in writing, Hexa shall be an icon in the years to come and over an extended period of time and family, you'll enjoy the Hexa more.
5) The way Hexa is bolted, nothing is gonna fall apart in the years to come, yes there might be niggles here and there, had a wiper motor failure in about 1800 kms of ownership and power windows assembly changed at about 4000 odd, but nothing else with 28000 clicks, as I sold it to my best buddy and get to see her every other day, just to add, heading to Mana Pass on the 27th, you bet on the Hexa it is.

Please be prudent in all your spendings and from what I gather, Hexa shall serve you the best, she's a keeper.

Note: With the Hexa, you shall need a hatch for daily errands, plan for the same, again a used one shall greatly help.

Happy Hunting.

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by mads2849

Let me think aloud ! Harrier is for the matured driver in us and Seltos is for the teen driver in us. I feel the gizmos, bells and whistles the Koreans have offered suits younger customers. It's like Rock and Pop if we happen to compare the Harrier to a Seltos.

Sorry to say this but this is grossly misinformed + insulting to all Seltos owners.

I am one, and I did extensive comparos (Oct - Nov 2019) before shortlisting it.

Can you tell me why a Harrier buyer is "mature" and why I am (as a Seltos owner) a "teen driver"?

In Nov this was the Harrier vs Seltos outcome in my personal checklist

1) I first had to struggle to get a test drive vehicle, wanted the diesel but was sent a petrol and told that the dynamics are similar, so adjust

After I escalated via Social media I got a test drive, and

2) the clutch - it was horrible and as I only like manuals, and drive in city traffic, and didn't want my quads to look like Arnold's and rejected it straight away. But since I loved how it looked (still think it is the best looking car in its and the segment above) I said I wanted to test drive one more car, SA promised to get it the next day. 3 days later I called and he said that oh sorry sir I forgot, tomorrow for sure.

Tomorrow never came.

I then went to another dealer and took a TD in the showroom, same issue. Horrible clutch.

Rejected, and figured this was a design issue.

Aside from this the engine was anaemic (this was the bs4 ver), at 5'6 the horribly designed ORVM's left me with no vision in corners, it was just massively large, and this was a huge risk as far as I was confirmed.

The ICE didn't pair to my BT, was told this was a small niggle on the first car.

I spent 2 weeks with my chequebook ready and my heart set on the Harrier.

Otoh the Seltos experience was brilliant. The car (TD car) drove like a charm, they gave me a close to 45 min TD, the clutch and engine was butter smooth and while it didn't look as stunning as the harrier, it definitely is a good looking car.

70% of my travel is city and am solo, 20% is 600 km highway drives with 4 adults + a kid and only 10% will be a full car that is 5 adults, and for those rare events the space is tight but okay.

Now tell me if Tata can't deliver a competent product, can't train and have professional sales staff, if I need to struggle to even Arrange a TD, when Kia (or Maruti or Hyundai can do all this), why is the onus on me to be "mature"?

Please don't make such offensive statements, esp in an educated forum such as this.

Originally Posted by Candy$Cars

Guys, I just feel sad with so much Tata bashing in the forum and especially Harrier bashing in this thread or any thread for that matter. Look at the recent thread something on the lines of 'over-hyped cars that flopped' where members have very conveniently added Harrier to the the list even though it is doing respectable numbers as a 22-25L rupee big size car. A lot of members have either never experience the Harrier or are just going by the so many reported niggles.

Even after the combination of all these factors going against the Harrier, I think it is doing well and has recovered from being a borderline flop(which was again thanks to all these factors).

[JJay]

Originally Posted by Stribog

I am one, and I did extensive comparos...

Are you sure you had test driven the TATA HARRIER? Asking because,

1) We would be more than happy to know how PETROL harrier drives .

2) I have driven both the versions of harrier (original and facelifted). Clutch was never an issue with any of the harrier, in fact it was lighter than our Altis and Wagon R. I myself a 5'6" person and agree that in Harrier 1.0 ORVM hampered the vision while taking sharp right turns but in Harrier 2.0 it was sorted and no longer bothering in corner visibility.

My only complain from Harrier 1.0 was the higher NVH levels that was hampering a premium experience. But it is considerably sorted in version 2.0.
Never tried anything in infotainment system so can't comment but speakers were exceptionally good for my average ears.

P.S- Harrier 1.0 which I have driven was a TD car, while the 2.0 was a black edition purchased by a friend. He had also extensively compared Seltos, Harrier, XUV 500, and Compass (all diesels) before settling down on harrier.

[Stribog]

Originally Posted by JJay

Are you sure you had test driven the TATA HARRIER? Asking because,

1) We would be more than happy to know how PETROL harrier drives .

.

I really wouldn't know, we might have to ask the brilliant SA who said that. Or maybe it was an excuse as I was putting pressure on getting it to me office.

I can even put the social media and whatsapp dumps here if you don't believe that a SA literally said this! (Though this bit was on a call when he claimed he was below my office)

Am sure if I even dig through my call records I can get out the 5-6 calls I made to the SA's.

This was documented in the forum as well.

And for the record this was the most amount of BS any SA had given after the Honda Activa guy (that still holds the record) who convinced me not to go for a disk break version for my dad because allegedly they are unsafe for old people.

Look at this very thread to see the amount of "niggles" (conditions apply) in a relatively new car.

And no, I am no "Tata basher", anytime I see a Harrier I stop and look.

[amandeepkamboj]

Hello everyone, booked a Harrier XMA on 6th of September from Gurgaon. Delivery is expected by the month-end.
My car journey so far:-
Chevrolet UVA was our first car (I was in college at that time, so practically it was my Dad's car), and it was a complete car for our family. Since it was our first ownership experience of a car, we did not have much experience of judging one. We were very happy with it, and it never gave any trouble. We owned it for 7 happy years.
I started working in 2010, and in 2012 I bought a Chevrolet Beat LT. Initial ownership experience was good, however, maintenance was high, thanks to poor road conditions of Gurgaon. Additionally, it was an LT model and did not come with airbags and ABS (having tasted the flavour of ABS on my CBR250R, it was sourly missed on the Beat). After the birth of my son, I did not felt safe with my family in the car anymore and decided to upgrade to ABS+Airbag car.
After a long search and countless test drives of several vehicles, I purchased Skoda Rapid 1.5 TDI DSG Elegance Plus in 2015. It was top-spec trim and build quality was amazing. By this time, I developed an understanding of the difference between different cars' handling and character. The car became "My Precious", built quality and stiff ride along with DSG made me its fan.
The fast forward to the year 2019, infamous DQ200 trouble hit me hard. Car started juddering, and to rectify the problem multi-clutch and flywheel were replaced. The work was covered under warranty, although it took 3 weeks to complete the replacement process (Skoda extended warranty is through a third party and big claims like this takes a lot of time). I was told rusting was the main reason for the failure.
When I received the car and drove it, it never felt the same. There was something peculiar about the gearshift between 1st and 2nd gear. Long story short, Skoda never admitted there is something wrong, I fought for a year without any positive development. Finally, in the year 2020, with a heavy heart, I sold "My precious" which I initially decided to keep for at least 10 years (because of NGT norms).
The decision-making dilemma:-
Now search for a new car started. My budget was 15 to 18 lakhs. Having owned a Diesel DSG, none of the petrol automatics impressed me (I never drove GDI+DCT from Kia). Cars I do drove, XL6 automatic, Seltos diesel automatic, MG hector petrol Automatic. After driving these cars I realized how gem of an engine and transmission combination Skoda offered back then (if we ignore the long term reliability). I was imbued in Skoda feel and quality, and was finding it very difficult to find a similar package. Dishearted I thought of buying a sub 10 lakhs AMT car, that at least will help me save some money. It was then when I visited Tata showroom and took a test drive of the Harrier.
My initial test drive experience was a delight. I was surprised by the HVH levels, engine feel and real estate seating position. It felt like home, heavy doors (but no europian 'thud' though), cabin quality, ride dynamics and a long bonnet. It immediately struck me. My old perception of tata cars was changed. This is the car I wanted, but the top model was out of budget. I recalculated my budget several times and settled with XMA (Tata should consider making XTA model, XMA misses out a lot of features at that price point).
The booking experience:-
Let me state it straight away, worst buying experience ever. I visited 2 Tata showrooms and there is not much difference. Reasons for dissatisfaction are - first, Tata should not offer exchange offer if they want to purchase a customer's car at scrap price. I was offered 4.06 lakhs by cars24. At tata, one dealer offered me 3 lakhs (which offended me a lot), another dealer offered me 3.75 and after a lot of negotiation settled the deal at 3.8 lakhs (now my car is up for sale at 6.5 lakhs at one the channel partners of tata).
Secondly, Harrier attracts a lot of enthusiasts and people do research a lot before visiting a showroom. I will not go in details but the level of knowledge of sales and accessories people is strictly limited. They will fail to answer most of your queries.
Lastly, the attitude, I inspected one of the display vehicle parked inside the showroom. It was newly launched XT+ model, and problems with it were not acceptable. On driver-side rear bumper and side body mating point character-line was not matching. On a closer look, I found that the bumper did not have a sharp line for at least one inch. It was a manufacturing defect and was clearly visible. When I informed salesperson about the defect, he did not look interested at all and gave me that 'Chalta Hai' look.
The second problem, passenger side front door not closing properly until you ram it hard like of a truck's. Again when I asked about it to a salesperson, he ramed it shut and said: "Sir andar hawa ban jati hai". To his reply, I opened the adjacent harrier door and shut it without any effort. It closed perfectly the way a car door should shut (no matter if it is a 5 lakhs car or 50 lakhs car).
By this time they started perceiving me like a "Sanki". And now comes the biggest blow, I told my sales executive that I would like to do PDI before delivery. If I find any major defect like this I will not take the delivery. Reply I received was "Sir ap final kar lo gaddi mangwani hai ya nahe, because car mangwa kar hum khadi nahe kar sakte" (this reply was after I exchanged my car and completed all the loan formalities). Had I not given my car in exchange already, I would have cancelled the deal. I am hoping now that I will not face any major issue in my Harrier.

One queries to fellow TeamBHP members:-
I want to install a rear parking camera. Tata accessories sales executive told me that tapping wire form rear parking bulb socket will void my warranty. Now after searching a lot, I have finalized 70mai 9.35" dashcam unit. I can manually switch to rearview while reversing and can refrain from tapping into revers lamp cable. But will drilling screws to mount camera will void my warranty?