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Old 31st August 2020, 12:41   #16
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
Your first line asks people to not do what you yourself are doing later in your post - judging without experiencing it for a long duration
Because the way iMT works is not something new for someone who has driven an AMT with manual mode.
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Old 31st August 2020, 12:48   #17
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Thanks for the comprehensive and excellent review as always. Only time will tell on the reliability of the new system. Having said that, kudos to Hyundai for their constant innovation and customer focus. Considering the fact that the iMT is just Rs.20K above the manual version, there could be a lot of takers, especially from the big cities
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Old 31st August 2020, 12:58   #18
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

SAFETY QUESTION:

All AMTs and automatic transmissions require the driver to press the brake before moving from Neutral to D, or from Park to D.

Does the iMT require the same? If not, can a passenger accidentally move the gear lever from N to 1st/2nd leading to the car creeping forward?

From the couple of videos that I watched, the answer seems to be yes, which would be a big miss in terms of safety.
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Old 31st August 2020, 12:59   #19
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Dear Aditya and Mods, excellent format of writing out crisp points about the first experiences and touch points with the new launches. This should go long way in covering practically all the cars running on our roads and making 'already extensive' TBHP presence, more exhaustive.

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Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
• Who should buy an IMT? Anyone who is on a budget and hates operating the clutch pedal in traffic. Also an ideal option for AMT-haters (due to jerkiness), convenience-seekers, newbie drivers & chauffeur-driven owners (no chauffeur ruining your clutch or giving you jerks).

• Who should NOT buy an IMT? Anyone who has the budget for superior torque-converter, dual clutch or CVT gearboxes. Pure enthusiasts who enjoy fast-shifting MTs & those who are very particular about how slickly their ATs operate. Sporty drivers who want sporty ATs.
This pretty much sums it up nicely. Just how MSIL could get the country to get going with AMTs (no matter how shitty the initial iterations were), I get the feeling with Hyundai's backing, this should go a long way too!
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Old 31st August 2020, 13:04   #20
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

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Originally Posted by TaurusSHO View Post
Unpopular opinion but I don't think this will find many takers. I believe there are two kinds of people, it's either AT or MT. This "iMT" is trying to be both. Why would an AT guy go through the effort of shifting gears and why would a MT guy want to shift without the clutch?
It all depends on marketing. If Hyundai prices it right, this can be a winner. Most people hate stressing their leg - actuating the clutch in traffic and stalling , not slotting gears. And if they can advertise this as "the smoothness of an automatic and the fun of a manual without the hassle of a clutch" this can sell well. Especially among ladies on a budget

As for wear and tear, I think under average driving this will fare better since most new drivers or people who haven't been trained properly have a tendency to drive on half clutch, slipping their clutch more than necessary and essentially grinding their clutch plate surface.
But under spirited driving by a proper driver, I think the 3 pedal MT will always last longer unless Hyundai can engineer their way out of that too.
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Old 31st August 2020, 13:40   #21
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Great review as always, Mr. Aditya.
I do have a question though, to anyone who has driven the iMT.

Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal-eb7c2f4940134c14ad250ccdad42d62e.jpeg
A screenshot taken from Mr. Faisal Khan’s video.
There is a caution that says not to press brake pedal by mistake during gearshift. Does this mean not to press brake pedal while the car is in motion or right before taking off after starting the car?
As we apply the brake while engaging a gear in MT & AT right before taking off. We also apply the brake while taking a turn to slow down & we shift gears (say 3rd to 2nd) in MT.
There will be a good amount of learning curve if we go by this caution alone.

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Originally Posted by TaurusSHO View Post
Unpopular opinion but I don't think this will find many takers. I believe there are two kinds of people, it's either AT or MT. This "iMT" is trying to be both. Why would an AT guy go through the effort of shifting gears and why would a MT guy want to shift without the clutch?
I believe the target audience for this kind of experiment are those who compromise by buying a manual, as they cannot afford a premium of 1-1.5 lac (Ex-Showroom) for a TC or a DCT & who dislike an AMT for its head nod behaviour.

Neo
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Old 31st August 2020, 13:42   #22
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

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Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
SAFETY QUESTION:

All AMTs and automatic transmissions require the driver to press the brake before moving from Neutral to D, or from Park to D.

Does the iMT require the same? If not, can a passenger accidentally move the gear lever from N to 1st/2nd leading to the car creeping forward?

From the couple of videos that I watched, the answer seems to be yes, which would be a big miss in terms of safety.
Quoting from Aditya's review in page 1:

"To crank the engine, you have to keep the brake pedal pressed and hit the starter button. You have to also ensure that the gear lever is in neutral position. If either of these requirements is not met, the engine enters accessory or ignition-on modes."
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Old 31st August 2020, 13:56   #23
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

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Originally Posted by rajivr1612 View Post
Quoting from Aditya's review in page 1:

"To crank the engine, you have to keep the brake pedal pressed and hit the starter button. You have to also ensure that the gear lever is in neutral position. If either of these requirements is not met, the engine enters accessory or ignition-on modes."
This is not what I'm talking about. If the engine is already ON and in neutral position, and the driver steps out of the car, what's preventing a passenger or a mischievous child from putting the gear lever into 1st and making the car run away?
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Old 31st August 2020, 14:06   #24
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

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Originally Posted by d3mon View Post
This is not what I'm talking about. If the engine is already ON and in neutral position, and the driver steps out of the car, what's preventing a passenger or a mischievous child from putting the gear lever into 1st and making the car run away?
Your concern is definitely valid. However, I don't believe any sane driver would step out of the car with the engine running and gear in neutral, without engaging the handbrake. And I don't think the torque at idle from a tiny 1L 3-pot motor, off-boost, would be enough to overpower the resistance from the parking brake. For a diesel with healthy torque available right from idle, it might be a concern.
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Old 31st August 2020, 14:07   #25
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Kudos to Hyundai for adding one more transmission variation to the choice.
Is manual more fun to drive, Absolutely Yes. Are there the right conditions to actually experience that fun in day to day life. Heck No. Atleast, not in Indian urban conditions. So manual is a luxury that one cannot practically experience most of the time.

1. The biggest problem with MT is operation of Clutch (and not moving the gear lever). Also, for each gear change in MT, one has to do 2 operations of clutch (engage and then release). So 3 step gear change is now reduced to just 1 step because of IMT.

2. AMT was always perceived as inferior. Not because there was something wrong in the tech, but AMT was always (wrongly) compared to Auto Transmission. That's because the UX of AT and AMT are same. Put it in drive mode and just drive. The infamous jerkiness/head-nod of AMT was an inherent disadvantage because AMT controller had to change the gears when the driver has has not released the accelerator. If you change gears in a MT car without releasing the accelerator, it will give you the same jerk and head-nod. So some AMT drivers adjusted their driving by guessing the gear change, looking at the RPM meter and preemptively releasing the accelerator. This can avoid jerkiness. But what is the use of buying AMT if the user has to be that cautious and concentrate on guessing the gear change intervals.

3. IMT's brilliance is this, it removes one feature of the AMT which is changing gears automatically - means gear change action is done by the driver manually. Only the clutch operation (which BTW is the most painful part of driving an MT) is automated. So, it solves the major issue of MT but removes automatic shifting feature - and by doing so, it avoids the conditions that result in jerkiness (that is inherent to AMT). It is not that IMT has put any extra-ordinary tech to overcome jerkiness. It has cleverly removed the possibility of such a scenario from occurring. Since it is the driver who is changing gears manually, he will naturally release the accelerator to change the gear.

4. About the lag, the lag of clutch operation, is also avoided because clutch is engaged and released just around the time when the gear lever is being operated. By the time the driver has finished operating the gear lever all the clutch operations are also completed and the vehicle is ready with all the power it needs. IMT is the finest example where a clever UX of the product has comprehensively avoided a major pain points of the technology.

Overall, IMT is a great improvement over MTs. I also liked the fact that Hyundai branded it right. It is a manual transmission. It is in its name. No misleading, deceptive names like AGS a la Maruti. Since it is a manual transmission it carries the legendary fuel-efficiency, reliability and cost-effectiveness of manuals. Plus it removes the biggest problem of operating a MT (clutch operation). It hits the sweet spot and has tremendous potential to become a spiritual successor to MT. IMT can genuinely replace MTs across the industry - just like CVTs replaced MTs in Scooters and electric power steering replaced hydraulic power steering.
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Old 31st August 2020, 14:11   #26
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

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Originally Posted by ram.iyer95 View Post
Your concern is definitely valid. However, I don't believe any sane driver would step out of the car with the engine running and gear in neutral, without engaging the handbrake. And I don't think the torque at idle from a tiny 1L 3-pot motor, off-boost, would be enough to overpower the resistance from the parking brake. For a diesel with healthy torque available right from idle, it might be a concern.
Honestly, it's not up to me or for you to decide whether someone would do that or not. Such accidents happen all the time even with the safety measures in place. Many car makers put the transmission into Park if the drivers door is opened, for instance. Even an AMT has this basic safety check in place.

Hyundai has missed this case and the only reason this is on sale is because India is a guinea pig for iMT. They'd never have the nerve to sell a system like this with such a shocking safety miss in any other developed market.
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Old 31st August 2020, 14:36   #27
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How does the system sense that the clutch need to be engaged? Is it based on some sensor detecting the gear lever being moved? How quickly can you change gears. Can you rest your hand on the gear lever or is it touch sensitive for the system to detect that a gear change is about to happen.

I had installed a similar system a decade ago in my Esteem. It was called Auto Cluthlch and was installed by Gentleman from Pune. I think he still makes the same system and it can be fitted in any car, including Diesels. Their website is http://automateindia.in/ , Hyundai's implementation would definitely be better but this idea has been around for quite some time.
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Old 31st August 2020, 16:35   #28
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

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Originally Posted by ant_vas View Post
After driving Dzire ZXi+AGS for close to 3 years i have to disagree with the way AMT is made out to be a horrible gear shifting option have!
I have test driven the Wagon R, Ignis, Swift and Dzire, all AGS, and I was desperately looking for the jerkiness often reported here, but could find none that I can call a 'jerk'. I feel AMT is the dark horse in this auto tranny race - newbies would love it, it's cost and fuel efficient, easy to maintain, and a manual loving enthusiast would have better control in the AMT than any other. The only complaint of jerks (if at all) will surely be addressed in time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
On a slope, put the car in 1st gear, release the brake and it will instantly move forward without any rollback. It works identically in reverse gear as well. Why? Because the Venue SX(O) that I drove has the "hill hold" feature....
Have booked the Dzire ZXI AGS, for the simple reason that it has ESP with Hill Hold Assist (Good one MS! If only the car were made of steel instead of tin you would've made a perfect 10). IMO HHA should be a must in cars with any kind of Auto. I live in a hilly region, so rollback on inclines was the one thing I repeatedly tested, and they all roll atleast a couple of feet before it engages. Of course, this is without trying to engage the A pedal, just wanted to see how long it takes for the creep to pickup. There was no issue of stalling though, so I won't say it's a safety issue. But I know what that two feet means in stop go traffic when bikers stop just an inch behind the bumper. Given that the Auto is sought in good numbers by drivers who are not comfortable with the gear shifts, it only hurts those it tries to help.
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Old 31st August 2020, 17:01   #29
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Somehow, I don't see this technology grabbing much market share. IMO this "neither here nor there" technology will find it hard to compete against MT and ATs (including AMT). The learning curve might be too steep for some people for them to buy an iMT.

On the flip side, I do welcome Hyundai's strategy of introducing a myriad of engine and transmission options. This is yet another bold move by the Korean manufacturer. Even if iMT fails to catch the peoples imagination, Hyundai's can take heart from the fact that it is miles ahead of other manufacturers when it comes to technology and options for the buyer.

Other manufacturers will surely be keeping a close eye on the market response to iMT.

Best of luck Hyundai!
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Old 31st August 2020, 17:59   #30
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Default Re: Hyundai Venue iMT Review : Intelligent Manual Transmission without a clutch pedal

Firstly, need to appreciate efforts from Hyundai on bringing this to the market.

It would be interesting to see how buyers react to this offering.

I would definitely prefer it over AMT.

I have owned 'AutoClutch' system developed by Automate India for few months. Shifting from MT to this (back in 2014), I was a happy customer. Would have continued for few more months/years but I had to sell off my car as I was moving abroad for long term assignment. The only thing that I disliked was that while shifting gears with autoclutch on, the gears were not smoother. The car in use was 2011 Honda City MT.

So for someone moving from MT to IMT - They would surely not crib.
Someone moving from AMT to IMT - I guess, I can say the same.
Someone moving from proper AT (TC or CVT) to IMT - May be not. It depends. I have driven both TC and CVT and sometimes I do feel the need to have some control in my hand.

If I am in market for a new car, I would surely check IMT out considering that its not very costly over MT.
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