[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by VKumar

Does it even matter if it was Gravitas and later names Safari? We accepted it as a masterstroke when done, and let's stay at it instead of trying to be the trolling party. Isn't it?

Being very true, there is a company, there is a product, and its selling with a name. Where is the relevance of what it was supposed to be called and what is it being called now? I am not favoring Tata or Mr. Bose, but I am trying to understand that how does it matter?

Assume that the firmware was tested completely and signed off, before the name change occured. Someone must have been given the task to execute a string change from "gravitas" to "safari" in the display control unit's computer, the owner's manual etc. And someone must have been assigned to verify that this change has been done correctly. It's human nature to make mistakes/miss something. But the thoroughness woven into the "process" of development and verification of code/software is what guards against silly mistakes like this.

This silly issue, glaringly points to "poor process" - and opens up the can of worms - "are there bugs in the electronic/mechanical hardware as well, in this car ? have they tested enough ? just racking up thousands of miles on test mules is one thing, looking for the "correct" set of parameters is another ; is this software silly bug a one-off ? " - can't fault a paying customer if he thinks like this.

Hence, according to me, it matters.

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by AirWind

Comfort
3. Non adjustable (height/length) arm rest for front seat

Let me add one more, one touch operation for all power windows. A very much neglected but extremely useful feature, just touch the button for any window and put the hand back on the wheel within 3 seconds. With Jetta in your signature, I am quite sure that ergonomics and thoughtful implementation of Safari cabin will still not be able to satisfy you. Jetta ownership makes you sensitive and strive for everything just set right.

4. Poor ergonomic positioning of the door opener/lock lever + handle, it is a pinch point

Read the last three lines of above post again. Once a BHPian called and asked me why he isn't feeling good about his Hexa. I simply said "Because you have an Endeavour parked next to it, had you upgraded from a Swift, you would have been all praises". Same logic applies in your case.

6. The two parking sensors on the rear are insufficient, should have gotten at least 4

Even Crysta gets two. The cardinal rule of reversing SUVs or any UV is that you have to dip the left mirror to show you the rear bumper and rear tyre - always. If you don't follow this, even 100 sensors will also disappoint you. To reverse a UV, ORVM use is an absolute necessity along with camera and sensor assist, else you can easily scrape something on the side, or due to high set bumper (hence high set sensors too), you can reverse on smaller objects.

Thank me later!

12. The shiny black bits on the dash are finger print and dust magnets, would have preferred matt instead

It becomes a pain after someone touches it with sweaty hands!

13. Parallel switch with the driver to turn on/off blower and lights for 3rd row

This is a real pain, seriously man - one button is needed up front to turn off the third row blowers. These are the small bits which take away the premium experience, Indian manufacturers need to understand this, people do like these small things when done thoughtfully. Probably the reason people love German cars, their features can be lesser than Hyundai or Mahindra, but are very thoughtfully implemented.

Originally Posted by venkyhere

"poor process"

Hence, according to me, it matters.

Treading carefully on Tata threads is a mandate, but such a convincing post doesn't come by everyday. Thanks Venky, agree with you word-to-word.

That said, lack of attention to detail always leaves a bad taste in mouth, particularly when you try to go premium. What adds more to the costs of the pricey cars is mainly the pain that has gone into making sure that every button, every bit, everything looks very well put together.

Like once Pratap Bose said in an interview "Quality isn't like the salt that you sprinkle over the food, it is something that you build into the product right from day 1".

Sadly, his own teams are unable to follow the word to T. I count all these things in the ambit of 'Quality' only. And your apprehension is right at this point, maybe they got the mechanicals right with miles and miles of testing, but electronics are stuffed with bugs and issues, probably one department is a bit more ignorant than others (Note: I could have written "one department is 'less alert' than others", still used the word 'ignorant').

Originally Posted by AirWind

JLR for TATA

Because there is a difference between a JLR team designing a car and a Tata team designing a car. Taking only chassis and suspension doesn't complete the job. Taking some thoughts is also needed. I am not saying that use materials and quality of that segment, but yes, use the positioning of buttons and thoughts from the Europeans at least. When people ask me why Crysta is s highly priced? I reply this only, 'own it to know it'. Now I rate the adjustable thigh support offered by them way above the panoramic sunroof, that makes a difference of two worlds in driving comfort - something that matters more to me.

[AirWind]

Originally Posted by VKumar

Let me add one more, one touch operation for all power windows. A very much neglected but extremely useful feature, just touch the button for any window and put the hand back on the wheel within 3 seconds. With Jetta in your signature, I am quite sure that ergonomics and thoughtful implementation of Safari cabin will still not be able to satisfy you. Jetta ownership makes you sensitive and strive for everything just set right.

Absolutely, added the one touch window operation in my post! And the Jetta's left ORVM dips down when the reverse gear is engaged. Yes, the Jetta is a well thought out sedan, it spoils you with all these touches, quality and finish, it or even the Octavia are A4 in sheep skin at half the price points. Another one is the vanity mirror for the driver - c'mon, why not provide it?

I did take an informed decision to go with the Safari, it was the best VFM 5+2 seater and was prepared for these bits and some more... but I wonder why these Indian car companies don't pick these simpler points even after spending 3 decades in passenger car market and they also have global brands under them - JLR for TATA and Ssangyong for Mahindra!

[varman742]

For those who own Safari or planning to own, here are some quick inputs on the 'Auto Hold' feature . I own Automatic version and have been using the Auto Hold feature from day 1.

Here is how it is intended to work and also works exactly the same way described:

1. When in 'P' mode with seat belts fastened, de-press the brake and press the 'Auto Hold' button to activate the function. A white symbol is shown in the instrument cluster to indicate that 'Auto Hold' is on. The same step can be followed to turn off the 'Auto Hold' i.e. with the white symbol 'ON' press the brake peddle and press the 'AVH' switch to turn off.
2. Put the vehicle in the D Mode and release the parking break to start driving.
3. When the vehicle makes a complete stop, the 'Auto Hold' is activated, indicated by the symbol turning to Green.
4. At this stage, I can lift my right foot off the break pedal and the vehicle holds, even on inclines and declines. Thus remaining in 'D', I neither have to apply parking brake nor press the brake peddle pressed. The manual doesn't state that I have to put the vehicle in 'N' mode.
5. When I want to start driving D mode of reversing in R mode, I simply press the accelerator. The 'Auto Hold' is deactivated and the symbol turns to white again. During acceleration, I feel slight jerk and small noise but not a deal breaker.
6. As per the manual, when in 'Auto hold' mode, if the vehicle remains stationary for more than 3 minutes, then EPB is automatically applied. I haven't tried this feature though. Also, it states that Auto hold shifts to EPB when:
- I move to P mode
- Turn off the ignition
- The vehicle is on steep slope (I am not sure how the vehicle will identify steep slope though!)
7. The 'Auto Hold' once turned 'ON' remains as 'ON' until I explicitly turn it 'OFF' using the process in Step 1. This is great as I don't have to remember to turn it 'ON' every time I start driving.

For me the Auto hold works like charm and I think it is one the most useful feature I have observed. It takes away the pain of applying the parking brake in start stop traffic and at signals.

Hope this helps the owners/prospective buyers.

[ashbhat2]

Originally Posted by AirWind

6. Why doesn't the heavy bonnet get hydraulic struts? if I remember correctly, even the older Safari used to get it!

My dealer had an interesting reply to this when I checked this point with him. He mentioned that the hydraulic struts on the previous Safari and the Hexa had a few issues. Main one being that with hydraulic struts, the bonnet didn't go up 90 deg and this was causing issues when the engine had to be moved out of the engine bay completely ( Had to be lifted up and then sideways ). He demonstrated by pushing the bonnet completely up on the Safari and the bonnet stood up at 90 deg without any support.
Not sure if that is the genuine reason why it was discontinued or it's just basic cost cutting.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by varman742

For those who own Safari or planning to own, here are some quick inputs on the 'Auto Hold' feature

And here is a Youtube video to explain the Electronic Parking brake along with the Auto Hold feature, for the Safari:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq_gQkWEIvE

[AirWind]

Originally Posted by ashbhat2

My dealer had an interesting reply to this when I checked this point with him. He mentioned that the hydraulic struts on the previous Safari and the Hexa had a few issues. Main one being that with hydraulic struts, the bonnet didn't go up 90 deg and this was causing issues when the engine had to be moved out of the engine bay completely ( Had to be lifted up and then sideways ). He demonstrated by pushing the bonnet completely up on the Safari and the bonnet stood up at 90 deg without any support.
Not sure if that is the genuine reason why it was discontinued or it's just basic cost cutting.

Its a matter of cost cutting... In simple engineering, at 90 degree the support required would be the minimum to keep the bonnet up in place rather than to hold the entire weight of the bonnet itself if it were to be any other angle. If there was a major repair like that of an engine change, then it would have been simpler to remove the bonnet itself.

[TorqueIndia]

Here is an extended version of the shared video which shows features like :

*EPB & HILL HOLD
*HILL DESCENT CONTROL
*ONE TOUCH UP-DOWN POWER WINDOWS
*iRA APP CONNECTED FEATURES

https://youtu.be/56bIkEyzWWk

[AmitRavi07]

Originally Posted by varman742

3. When the vehicle makes a complete stop, the 'Auto Hold' is activated, indicated by the symbol turning to Green.
4. At this stage, I can lift my right foot off the break pedal and the vehicle holds, even on inclines and declines. Thus remaining in 'D', I neither have to apply parking brake nor press the brake peddle pressed. The manual doesn't state that I have to put the vehicle in 'N' mode.

Isn't it bad for the Torque Converter transmission to leave it in D mode while stopped? Wouldn't the clutch be engaged for the whole duration of stop in this case?

[AirWind]

Originally Posted by AmitRavi07

Isn't it bad for the Torque Converter transmission to leave it in D mode while stopped? Wouldn't the clutch be engaged for the whole duration of stop in this case?

Not if you had selected Auto Hold (button behind the electric parking brake) white light on the instrument cluster (bottom left) and when you do a full stop (hard depress of the brake pedal) the light turns to green indicating it has been activated and you can remove the leg from the brake pedal, it would disengage the brake when you press the accelerator again.

[AmitRavi07]

Originally Posted by AirWind

Not if you had selected Auto Hold which would turn from white to green on the dashboard (bottom left) then you can remove the leg from the brake pedal, this disengages when you press the accelerator again.

But does auto-hold disengage the clutch? From what I have read auto-hold just applies the brakes, the clutch is engaged and disengaged based on the gear selection. Apologies for these questions, I have been reading a bit on why one should not keep the gears engaged if not on move, so trying to get more clarification.

[CarNerd]

Tata should have kept the Gravitas name as it was. It could have launched a new Safari altogether with proper 4x4 and off roading capabilities or it could have launched the Sierra.

The present Safari doesn't seem to have the character of the old one!

[AirWind]

Originally Posted by AmitRavi07

But does auto-hold disengage the clutch? From what I have read auto-hold just applies the brakes, the clutch is engaged and disengaged based on the gear selection. Apologies for these questions, I have been reading a bit on why one should not keep the gears engaged if not on move, so trying to get more clarification.

I believe so, because when we are in D mode we can feel the rush of the engine being held back by the brake but not so when the AutoHold is active.

[NoLurkerForLong]

Have a query for the experts who have insights into the booking and delivery process. My dealer says the vehicle is allotted and needs part pre-payment today for the vehicle to be billed and claims remaining has to be paid in next 3-5 days else it might be allotted to someone else.

I think he is lying through the teeth, but I calmly said as far as I know thats not how it works. Then he started requesting some pre-payment in next few days.

Can someone chime in on the process?

My other worry is I don't have any clue if the vehicle is really allotted as Tata Motors doesn't communicate with us directly. Is there a way to check if the vehicle is even allotted for my booking?

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by NoLurkerForLong

Have a query for the experts who have insights into the booking and delivery process. My dealer says the vehicle is allotted and needs part pre-payment today for the vehicle to be billed and claims remaining has to be paid in next 3-5 days else it might be allotted to someone else.

I think he is lying through the teeth, but I calmly said as far as I know thats not how it works. Then he started requesting some pre-payment in next few days.

Can someone chime in on the process?

My other worry is I don't have any clue if the vehicle is really allotted as Tata Motors doesn't communicate with us directly. Is there a way to check if the vehicle is even allotted for my booking?

There is no process that specifies that you have to give X amount (other than the booking amount) before the car is made available to you. The booking amount books you a car. The dealership is expected to block or allot a car for you from the vehicles in transit or the production plan.

The rest you are expected to pay only after you have done the PDI and are satisfied. There may be a 2/3 days delay after that for the dealer to complete various formalities like dealer PDI, temporary registration etc.

Some unprofessional dealers may flip your allotment to someone who is ready to pay but it's rare to find a dealer these days who would risk customer ire and do that.

Drive on,
Shibu.