[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by gmhossain

....
...
Guess what? Safari was launched with panoramic sunroof. (emphasis are mine). So I guess, one has to make their own judgement on the credibility of such post.

You do realise that the Safari does not have a stepped roof though, and the context of the quoted post for panaromic sunroof is how is not possible in cars with stepped roof, right?

As for your call on the safety aspect - absolutely right! Until Tata gets these cars tested, we are all but speculating on the safety aspect, more so coz all their new launches have scored exceptionally well in crash tests - including the recently launched stonker of a Punch!

But then, that also raises the question - why not volunteer the Harrier or Safari to GNCAP too, when they have been around for so long?

You see where this is going, don't you? Unless Tata takes a decisive action, all we can do is speculate - insider info or not!

[TROOPER]

Originally Posted by yd_gli

Every Tata salesman I have met regrets the fact that the Hexa was discontinued.

While a lot of service advisors and even a GM of service have told me they prefer the Hexa especially the AT over the Harrier siblings, I used to dismiss it cause that’s what they have to tell me as a Hexa owner.

But recently a fellow owner on visiting a showroom to check out the Safari was asked by the sales advisor to hold on to the Hexa. While shopping for the Hexa, not a single sales advisor tried pitching us the Harrier, considering it had way more incentive for them back then (you can check the screenshot I have posted on the 2019 Harrier thread).

Guess all those guys earlier weren’t trying to butter me up. Some were being honest.

[gmhossain]

Originally Posted by ph03n!x

You do realise that the Safari does not have a stepped roof though

Precisely, I agree. I also agree that Tata should send these vehicles for crash testing, voluntarily.

However, your above statement makes the credibility of the so-called "sources" even more questionable! These are so-called "sources" who had no clue whether Safari would have stepped roof or not? Yet, the same sources are able to "confirm" an incredibly wrong information.

Cheers,

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

also the 1.5/1.6 turbo petrol motor which was being developed has been put on the backburner post the launch of the XUV700 petrol and its crazy power and torque figures.....This deal is for 10 years so Tata has to somehow come out with more products on the Omega platform so as to stop this milking. But the irony is that even those products will fair poorly in crash tests because of the oil filter intrusion issue. So Tata is really in a bad position right now as far as the Omega platform is concerned.

Serves Tata right, for going lazy on the engine front.

Axing the X2 platform, not using the 2.2l engine and being adamant on the Alfa/ Omega approach. There is not even one rumour regarding new models based on the Omega platform. They could very well design an MPV on the Omega platform.

Originally Posted by gmhossain

However, your above statement makes the credibility of the so-called "sources" even more questionable! These are so-called "sources" who had no clue whether Safari would have stepped roof or not? Yet, the same sources are able to "confirm" an incredibly wrong information.
Cheers,

Well, until up and close with the new Safari, anyone would have believed it had stepped roof. Especially with Tata itself pushing the stepped roof legacy to be worthy of the Safari brand. Only in person, would one see it was an illusion with those roof rails.

[ram87pune]

Ok guys let's not derail the Safari thread by arguing about the authenticity of my sources.

First and foremost I felt really sorry when I got the information on the Safari not getting the panoramic sunroof at the outset wrong. That is because I have sources at all levels at Tata Motors right from the shop floor level till VP level. Now this info regarding the sunroof was provided by a low level source and that is why I mentioned in my post that the Safari "may" get the panoramic sunroof at a later date.

But.... the scoop regarding the safety rating comes from a VP level source and so it cannot be wrong atleast for me. So those who believe me can continue to do so while for the rest all I can say is let's wait for the actual crash test of the Harrier twins or even the Compass and Hector diesels for that matter so as to clear the air once and for all.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by TROOPER

Lastly, this Gravitas should have been called the Sierra. And once people had cozied up to putting 25-27 lacs on a Tata product, the final true SUV, the Safari, costing upwards of 30 lacs, is what Tata should have aimed for, cause with the Endeavour’s exit and ever expensive Fortuner, both Tata and Mahindra have a nice 12-15 lacs gap to play with, which Mahindra is planning on with the XUV 900. And Tata will sit and watch, with no money (unless they build it on the Hexa’s X2 platform), brand name and proper engines.

I think you have hit it out of the park. Exactly what should have been done. Naming the Gravitas as Safari - it has been "homologated" as the mythological ceiling of TML's line-up. We can't expect a better car to slot above it now, especially given the price bracket it will fall in. Sierra surely is going to slot below - and will be smaller on the Alfa arc if the vague rumours are to be believed.

Originally Posted by DicKy

There is not even one rumour regarding new models based on the Omega platform. They could very well design an MPV on the Omega platform.

They could - but its best that they don't. A very good product like the Marazzo has bombed in our market. Nothing but the Innova is going to sell. The investment on a modern MPV that cannot be cheap to make (given the platform to use) - will bring no gains to Tata at least in the short-mid term. With the cash crunch - Tata really is in a bit of a weird situation. Cars are selling in numbers unlike before, but the future pipeline seems a bit of a question mark. Mainly it seems to be about electrification of existing models one by one & mild-facelifts. No new products ground-up.

The need of the hour for them is a 1.5L diesel & petrol powered compact Sierra to slot in the Seltos-Creta territory. There seems to be a good potential for customers. People are buying Tata cars now - and that is the hottest segment on sales.

Unfortunately there are not even rumours about it; let alone mule spottings. So it seems Tata has missed the bus big time on this one, while fighting it out on the Omega front.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by DicKy

Well, until up and close with the new Safari, anyone would have believed it had stepped roof. Especially with Tata itself pushing the stepped roof legacy to be worthy of the Safari brand. Only in person, would one see it was an illusion with those roof rails.

Actually it does as evidenced by this post on the XM #663 (2021 Tata Safari Review) but it is not as pronounced as the original. This was flattened for the Sunroof variants.

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Naming the Gravitas as Safari - it has been "homologated" as the mythological ceiling of TML's line-up. We can't expect a better car to slot above it now, especially given the price bracket it will fall in

They have slotted the Aria & the Hexa above the Safari before so I dont think its an absolute ceiling but yes the Sierra would slot below in perception at least. The current Safari for all its flaws is having a fair run. I think they should launch the next iteration fixing some of these issues namely engine, rear suspension, driver ergonomics and adding a 4wd. They could name it a Safari+ as well and stretch Omega to it full 4.88 m and go north of 30.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

Ok guys let's not derail the Safari thread by arguing about the authenticity of my sources.

When one is sharing some insider information, it is expected that, some bits may be edited / changed and some may not make it to the final iteration. IMHO, its a win win if even more than 50% information comes out as shared.

So, instead of condescending posts / ridicule one should be realistic and one should accept, a scoop is a scoop and should be treated as one. You are free to ignore the post, rather than come up with condescending posts ridiculing someone for the scoop / source.

Originally Posted by gmhossain

However, your above statement makes the credibility of the so-called "sources" even more questionable!

[Rolling_Stock]

Originally Posted by ron178

Interesting read and thanks for the scoop.

Rumours say they're testing the MG Hector this year, and it's nearly as expensive as the Harrier and sells less than the Harrier, so isn't Tata worried that they might test the Harrier in the near future?

If this is believed to be true that GNCAP is planning to test MG Hector sooner or later, will this give an indicator of the Filter intrusion and its impact on the scores, considering that both Hector and Harrier uses the same FCA Multijet 2.0 on their RHD vehicles ?

[ron178]

Originally Posted by Sheel

one should accept, a scoop is a scoop and should be treated as one. You are free to ignore the post

+1 to that.
I neither deny nor surely accept ram87pune's information - all I'm saying is that it's out there, and it could or could not be true. Until it is conclusively proven everyone will have varying degrees of belief in it and that's something we should respect. Someone might think it's absolutely untrue, someone might take for granted that it's true, and I'm sure both would have their reasons. Insider information is supposed to be treated as such, and I'm willing to take responsibility if it turns out that my degree of belief in the rumour is wrong.

Originally Posted by Rolling_Stock

If this is believed to be true that GNCAP is planning to test MG Hector sooner or later, will this give an indicator of the Filter intrusion and its impact on the scores, considering that both Hector and Harrier uses the same FCA Multijet 2.0 on their RHD vehicles ?

Keep in mind that it's just speculation based on the Tweet MG's PR team accidentally sent (hence violating the embargo) earlier in the year. While I would not be surprised to see the Hector included in the 2021 round of non-voluntary results, it's not guaranteed. We should wait till the end of the year before assuming for sure that it has been tested.

Unlike the Tata Harrier/Safari, the MG Hector is also offered with a petrol engine option, so we don't know which fuel type Global NCAP will purchase for the test. In principle they could choose any variant with the basic safety equipment available for the model. As long as there is a petrol as well as diesel engine option available on a variant with two airbags, we don't know which fuel type they'll test and unless someone keen-eyed can somehow figure it out (from the tachometer in the onboard view, for example), I don't think we'll be able to find out even after results are published. I had made a request to them to publish the fuel type in the future, but all they did was thank me for the feedback and say they'll "look into the matter". The next result published (the Mahindra XUV700) did not have the fuel type mentioned so I'm assuming they haven't really made the change.

[buzzy_boy]

Took a test drive of the Safari automatic today. Came away terribly disappointed. My observations below:

Variant: Adventure edition.
Requirements

1. Should seat atleast 5 people comfortably
2. Decent ground clearance
3. Comfort oriented ride quality - bonus points for controlled body movements
4. Decent drivability
5. Decent NVH

Safari observations
Exterior

1. Stunning to look at, decent road presence as well
2. Paint quality is decent on surfaces that meet the eye
3. Uneven panel gaps, and rough edges as pointed out in the official review. Don't find them off-putting
4. Didn't find the plastic near the C pillar too ugly - infact didn't notice it at all

Interior

1. IMHO the second weakest link
2. Posh and contemporary design
3. Which is let down by poor material quality; heck, my 11L OTR base model Creta uses better materials
4. Artificial leather looks okay, but terrible to touch
5. Signs of cost cutting everywhere; eg: cheap, non-woven fabric used on the sides of the armrests for second row seats
6. Panoramic sunroof is decent
7. Seats are comfortable otherwise
8. Rough edges with some trim not fitted properly
9. Quality of roof-liner is good
10. Hard plastics everywhere
11. Switches especially flimsy feeling
12. Steering wheel is good to hold
13. Ergonomically okay

Driving

1. Performance is decent. Engine is adequate, however, never felt like it had vast reserves of power to command
2. Smooth shifting gear box
3. Kick down is okay
4. Terrible steering, not at all well calibrated
5. Bongs and beeps for random things.
6. Suspension is superbly judged. Not too stiff, not too soft. Far better than the Innova with its 17 inch alloys.
7. Body roll well contained
8. Brakes creak at crawling speeds - uneven pad wear?

Build quality

1. The weakest link
2. Atrocious
3. Back door has the same heft as S-cross's rear door
4. Boot door is a tin can
5. Front door, again - no heft
6. Boot lid is okay
7. Materials in cabin may not last beyond 1.5 L kms
8. Terrible under the bonnet. No working room, components seem to be thrown together without any effort at layout design - no wonder we hear stories of improperly laid wires and hoses causing problems
9. As others have noted, Tata seems to have a high degree of tolerance; eg: multiple washers used to hold the plastic DRL trim in place.

Other points

1. Infotainment average, not good not terribly bad
2. Sound quality above average
3. Thumbs up for the LED cabin lamps
4. Thumbs down for low profile R18 tyres

Conclusion
The Safari is a product with great potential, but it is let down terribly by poor execution. I wonder whether TaMo spent any effort at all to get the execution right.

My hypothesis: TaMo had to make money really fast to offset years of underperformance. They can't do that with hatchbacks, sedans and compact SUVs with cut-throat competition and razor thin margins. Can't do that against executive SUVs with the Fortuner around Adding to the pressure, they had to build new platforms to meet the new safety norms and emission regulations. So, their idea was to build a desirable mid-size SUV and maximize profits by using cheap materials, and low cost manufacturing.

At the end of the day, it is sad too see so much potential wasted by poor engineering and execution. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot stick.

[Highh5]

Originally Posted by buzzy_boy

Build quality[list=1][*]The weakest link[*]Atrocious[*]Back door has the same heft as S-cross's rear door[*]Boot door is a tin can[*]Front door, again - no heft[*]Boot lid is okay[*]Materials in cabin may not last beyond 1.5 L kms

Respect your observations, but are you sure doors have the same heft as S cross. Leave alone the door, the boot door is a tin can. Can't buy this statement. It's so damn heavy, can't lift and shut that with a single hand.
In fact, the weight is so much that struts will give up soon and may need periodic replacements or greasing.
Already saw quite a few folks complaining about the boot strut and not working as designed at various platforms.

With all due respect, your observations completely seem biased against Harrier. Not saying that just because I own one, but because I have spent more time with the vehicle.

[grimmreaper_gtr]

Originally Posted by Highh5

With all due respect, your observations completely seem biased against Harrier.

Couldn't agree more. Seems like you're comparing it with the wrong cars. It helps to keep an open mind sans any bias when you first go to test a car. I personally felt that the Safari is really well built and has largely consistent fit and finish. Agreed that some of the materials could have had better finish, but overall it's a very impressive vehicle. If you compare it with an Innova, you'd be surprised to find worse plastics used at some places in the Toyota. Having driven both the Safari and the Creta (current as well as previous gen), I can safely conclude that the Safari has a far superior handling and steering response on the highway, while it might be heavier than required in the city.
If you're looking for something with more premium fit and finish, this segment won't offer it. I'd suggest you to explore premium mid-size SUVs like the upcoming Tiguan, Kodiaq, etc.

[NitSat]

For me , the single most important factor, in differentiating Xuv 700 and Safari, would be- Five star rating in crash tests.

What’s the use of having apps like Zomato in your car . Too much tech , but which of these are going to be used while driving. And before you jump your guns for ADAS, Mahindra is now offering sports pack at 1.6 lacs, minus ADAS. That means, according to Mahindra’s own estimate, the value of ADAS is not more than 20 k.

I would rather have auto dimming IRVM, 360 degrees camera, blind spot monitoring, a better quality of rear camera and a slick navigation system. For me , these features help in day to day drives.

[vigneshkumar31]

Thanks for the insider scoop @ram87pune and based on my own research, I feel more inclined to believe your info regarding the safety rating (rather the lack of it)

Safety champion Tata has been quick to volunteer to test their smaller cars and have gone all guns blazing in smearing their (well deserved) stars, right across the competitions’ faces.

It is too fishy that they wouldn’t want to send their flagships into the ring, Unless they were aware of the unavoidable negative outcome already. Logic and common sense and some basic reading up on other cars fitted with the same motor corroborate with your info well.

The company and the vloggers along with the new breed of accident paparazzi which believes in one car decimating the other in a collision to be declared ‘safe’ can keep blaring their horns on build quality and Land Rover architecture, but as on date the fact remains:

XUV7OO has perfect 5 stars on GNCAP
and Safari remains ‘untested’.


‘In God We Trust,
The rest of you please show GNCAP rating’