[Chetan_Rao]

Feels funny to say it about an actual full-sized UV, but the face on the Legender variant makes it look like one of those hatchback-on-stilts wannabe SUVs.

The circle is complete!

[landcruiser123]

Not sure why lack of full time 4WD is a con. Drivers can engage 4x4 when in the rough terrain and drive with 2WD on road. (Rated) Fuel economy will be slightly better.

Great short review of a sexy looking car. First time Toyota is actually selling a 'variant' of the Fortuner. Other variants being only changes in power-trains.

[ashnd]

So I’ve had my Fortuner for nearly 6 years now. It’s the facelift and 4x4 Automatic of the last generation. In 2015, the car cost around 30L on road in Gurgaon. Now I’m one of the people who does use the 4x4 system on various types of terrain. And the Fortuner shines on every Offroad trail. In fact, last month, I took it out for a snow drive via the Atal tunnel past Manali.




So I drove the 204PS 4x4 Automatic recently and cannot praise it enough. Sure it’s more of an evolution rather than a revolution in terms of how it drives compare to the pre-facelift car, but as someone rightly said why fix something that ain’t broke. It is much more responsive than my version and improved over the facelift car as well. The Sport mode really makes it come alive. And the steering is much lighter than my car’s, so although nowhere near an EPS still, it is a non-issue, that will only be apparent, if you’re used to an EPS.

I was also involved in the launch of the 2.0 L Ford Endeavour and did some extensive off-road and on road driving in that vehicle especially on the dunes.



It’s a nice refined experience in its own right, but now underpowered compared to the previous gen Endy. The only silver lining is the fuel efficiency which is undoubtedly better, help by the 10 speed transmission. Now the new Fortuner is really refined and quiet, the engine is still gruff and gravelly at higher revs, although nowhere near as much as my first generation 3.0 D4D, helped by the lower compression ratio. As correctly observed in this review, the 3.2 Endevaour sounds like a muscle car in comparison.

But in my view, the Endeavour never stood a chance in front of the Fortuner. I would only recommend the Endeavour to someone who specifically does not want the Fortuner, or wants an EPS and refined city drive. That’s it. The overweight body, the underpowered engine, the fiddly gear selector buttons on the gear lever as opposed to a proper paddle shift system are downsides of the Endeavour. And though the ride is softer, all that unsprung mass makes it bounce up and down if you drive fast on roads that are less than perfect. Where a Fortuner will smother such roads, here, it makes you slow down to control the vertical movement of the suspension.

Having said all that, with the new Fortuner, some silly equipment choices continue, AT tyres on the 4x2 and HT tyres on the 4x4! It’s a great incentive to swap the tyres for something more suitable at the dealership itself! And then there’s that speed warning at 80 and 120, that all cars come with now... Sigh..
I also preferred the dark brown interiors of the second-gen Fortuner that were in use before the Chamois or Black interior choices of the current car. And yes, for a car that is 44L on road, the interiors definitely need a more upmarket design, although the fit and finish everywhere is excellent, not just the interiors, but also the paintwork of the car. Feels really premium.

Anyway, I’ve given my Fortuner a new set of tyres this month, going from the original Dunlop ATs to BF Goodrich ATs. Really makes it look a lot more butch.



And with only 48000 kms done and finally a condition-based scrappage policy on the horizon, I don’t see a need to upgrade anytime soon!



I also shared my thoughts about my first-gen Fortuner in a YouTube video last year, and if you’re after this generation, perhaps as a used buy, you might find some value in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOS9HrZtR1E

[DriveOnceMore]

I many times find it hard to understand, what we (Indians) see as a value proposition.
The Fortuner is the example where it being the costliest option among the competition sells the most, even if it lacks several features and has harsh ride quality.
At the same time we rejected Tata Nano despite of it being the cheapest and offering much more value for money than competition.

Is it all that matters is perceived image in India?

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by DriveOnceMore

I many times find it hard to understand, what we (Indians) see as a value proposition.
The Fortuner is the example where it being the costliest option among the competition sells the most, even if it lacks several features and has harsh ride quality.
At the same time we rejected Tata Nano despite of it being the cheapest and offering much more value for money than competition.

Is it all that matters is perceived image in India?

People buying in this segment aren't exactly budget conscious, but they know that if the Fortuner isn't working for you, it'll be the least expensive mistake they'll make.

The value proposition is simple, expensive to buy, cheap to own and run, reliable and holds resale value. The low depreciation hit means cheaper options aren't so economical in the long run. The Nano was competing with used Altos, it didn't stand a chance.

They know their customers really well, the off road image is pure marketing, the majority of cars sold are 2WD.

[chittybang]

The Fortuner twins are starting to look more like the Urban cruiser with this iteration. I know it was the Urban cruiser which took inspiration but for a buyer this may be good for someone considering the Urban cruiser but surely will impact those who are considering the Fortuner. Until now there was nothing in the stable that looked anywhere like the Fortuner. Then again, I suppose the Fortuner is immune to everything, else this kind of price would be called shocking for any other Manufacturer.
I consider myself a novice among such a well informed group. So i ask with genuine curiosity. I always hear about the big T reliability. Is this truly the case? I always wondered why other manufacturers are not able to do the same when they make a car on a production line with very detailed specifications and hardly any major variables. Is it so hard to make a vehicle at least mechanically reliable?

[nagr22]

Originally Posted by chittybang

I always hear about the big T reliability. Is this truly the case? I always wondered why other manufacturers are not able to do the same when they make a car on a production line with very detailed specifications and hardly any major variables. Is it so hard to make a vehicle at least mechanically reliable?

There are few ways in which manufacturers can achieve high reliability:
1) Keep as little features as possible and do not add unnecessary features or parts. Every single extra component you add in a car decreases its reliability because now there are more ways something can fail. Traditionally Toyota is known to be very conservative when it comes to adding new features. They will wait till it is proven that the technology is mature, reliable and then introduce in their models. German car manufacturers try to make their cars cutting edge and do not shy away from adding untested and futuristic features. That's one of the reasons why they are known to be unreliable.

2) By de-rating or de-tuning the parts. Suppose if a gearbox is rated to withstand 100Nm of torque transfer but you have detuned the engine to produce only 75Nm, the gearbox will last much longer. Same is applicable for electricals as well. A heater coil designed for 'X' watt will last a lot longer of the heater is operated at 'X/2' watt. Toyota is known to follow this principle of derating which is partially responsible for their cars to be boring to drive but they score great on reliability. Read about the Toyota FJZ series engines, their factory tuned HP and the actual HP which the tuners could extract out of it. You'll be surprised. This concept of derating also increases the cost of a car. Not all manufacturers can compete in a price sensitive market. So they all make trade offs. Toyota trades off performance to increase reliability and the German brands typically extract 100% from each part which reduces their life.

3) By following strict quality control - All the derated and time tested technologies will go for a toss if a car is not well put together. It is very very important to manufacture a car as close to design spec as possible without compromising on anything. Toyota employees are encouraged to even stop a production line if they find something is not of the expected quality. Not all manufacturers are like that.

Having said all that, there is no way a Fortuner costs that much just because of its Quality and Reliability. Toyota is simply milking their reputation for QDR and the lack of a proper competitor is helping them to sustain. Also the new Fortuner puts out significantly higher power and torque figures but still uses the same engine as pre-facelift. The reliability of new Fortuner engine 'might' be lower than the outgoing model unless toyota has done some engineering to strengthen the relevant parts. It also comes with more electronic gizmos than before so I expect niggles to increase.

[Technic90]

Originally Posted by nagr22

Having said all that, there is no way a Fortuner costs that much just because of its Quality and Reliability. Toyota is simply milking their reputation for QDR and the lack of a proper competitor is helping them to sustain. Also the new Fortuner puts out significantly higher power and torque figures but still uses the same engine as pre-facelift. The reliability of new Fortuner engine 'might' be lower than the outgoing model unless toyota has done some engineering to strengthen the relevant parts. It also comes with more electronic gizmos than before so I expect niggles to increase.

Toyota is NOT using the same engine. It is the same model with new iteration. They have made significant improvements in the engine instead of detuning the power and torque on the previous iteration. I have attached the picture where they show the changes made.



You can read in detail from this link https://www.caradvice.com.au/877348/...ve-been-fixed/

If there is one thing you can trust about Toyota, it is their engine and transmission. Again doesn't mean they can't go wrong, I am talking of probability. Toyota and Honda engines are known to have the least problems for every 100 units they produce. It is not an opinion anymore, rather a fact based on past data. Most people would rather bet on Japanese engines than American and German ones. My only minor concern with the current engine in Fortuner is that Toyota started manufacturing engines here locally from around 2016-17 if I am not wrong. So long term reliability of locally made one is still unknown but based on my research till now, there have been no concerns unlike Endeavour's previous 3.2's engine and transmission for which I have seen few breakdowns. Haven't seen any issues for Endeavour 2.0 yet mostly because lockdown happened soon after it was launched. If anyone is still concerned about Toyota's reliability, they can buy powertrain warranty up to 7th year which covers all the costly parts.

One important point to note is Fortuner is sold in many countries including South East Asia, Australia, Russia, South Africa and few others. And we get the same model just like any other country without the additional features like Toyota Safety Sense. The engine and transmission also do their duty in Hilux. So you have enough data to vouch for the reliability and you don't have to worry about Toyota taking any major issues lightly.

Regarding electronic gizmos, there are no major additions in the facelift apart from

1. Basic Infotainment with Apple Carplay and Android Auto but loses out on inbuilt navigation like the previous one had
2. Wireless phone charger
3. Kick sensor
4. Ambient lighting
5. JBL Speakers
6. Front parking sensors

These are minor additions that many manufacturers have been providing for years. Chances of niggles are very less for these. Items 2,3,4 don't even exist in standard Fortuner. Even if any of this go wrong, you won't have any issues completing your journey. The pre-facelift model also didn't have any niggles as such. Though very few users have shared one-off type incidents which you can find in pre-facelift Fortuner thread.

If you talk of major mechanical changes apart from Engine, they are

1. DPF and SCR for BS6 - Toyota had issues globally with this especially in Australia (Euro 6) since 2015/16. This was partly responsible for engine upgrade as well where they had to go back to the drawing board to solve the problem. But the good thing is Toyota has already experienced the BS6 related challenges and they have worked on it, unlike Tata and Mahindra who are relatively new to it.

2. Electronic Diff Lock - Fortuner always had this in other countries so it's actually not new. It's just new to Indian Fortuner.

3. Variable Flow Control (VFC) steering - VFC is new to Fortuner but not new to Toyota. They have it in other models like Land Cruiser for many years now.

So as you can see, Toyota hasn't introduced any game-changing or first of its class features to the facelift but simply improved upon the existing one. They have kept it simple without compromising on their philosophy of quality and reliability. Whether the 2021 Fortuner stands up to it will be seen with time. Regarding the price, I agree it seems high but I will address it in a separate post on why I went ahead with the Fortuner.

[PrideRed]

1. Did cover about 850Km in 3 days.
2. DPF regeneration happened thrice, last one was quick.
3. Fuel efficiency for overall trip stands at 11.6KMPL, which is exactly what was displayed in MID. On 4 lane highway MID was showing 13-13.5KMPL.
4. I have probably got used to suspension, yes it's on stiffer side compared my Endeavour. As I mentioned earlier, Fortuner with hydraulic unit is better on highways, in city, Endeavour with EPS is better. Same with ride, find Fortuner better on Highway and Endeavour in city speeds.
5. Paddles are nice, have used on quite a lot of occasion and is useful tool.
6. 4WD was helpful. Used twice to get out of tricky situation. Is also such a confident booster for car this large. I didn't have any hesitation to take it unexplored places.

Pictures from the outing.

[CEF_Beasts]

Originally Posted by chittybang

The Fortuner twins are starting to look more like the Urban cruiser with this iteration. I know it was the Urban cruiser which took inspiration but for a buyer this may be good for someone considering the Urban cruiser but surely will impact those who are considering the Fortuner. Until now there was nothing in the stable that looked anywhere like the Fortuner.

Agree completely that the Urban Cruiser looks like a regular Fortuner (not the Legender though) from the front. I was going through the Autocar Awards Jury round, from far off I almost mistook the Urban Cruiser for the facelifted regular Fortuner.

https://youtu.be/C5envopadfU

[GoCool]

There is no replacement for displacement. The Endeavour took a step back by dropping its 3.2L in favour of the smaller 2.0L turbo. The Fortuner's 2.8L has always been a fantastic engine and now they have given it more power. It’s a phenomenal, fantastic engine and far superior to the Endeavour's motor

My first post. Thanks for accepting me in this wonderful forum!

How is the Fortuner Legender engine compared to Endeavour's 3.2L in terms of real life performance. Do they feel equally powerful in the low's? Let's say if some one is looking for an upgrade of their Endeavour 3.2, is Fortuner Legender a worthy upgrade?

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by GoCool

My first post. Thanks for accepting me in this wonderful forum!

How is the Fortuner Legender engine compared to Endeavour's 3.2L in terms of real life performance. Do they feel equally powerful in the low's? Let's say if some one is looking for an upgrade of their Endeavour 3.2, is Fortuner Legender a worthy upgrade?

Fortuner feels a bit more peppier, thanks to lighter weight, more torque/power. Also gearbox is slightly better tuned. That said is it an upgrade over 3.2 Endeavour? No. You will lose few nice to have features at the cost of power. So, this will be lateral movement if you are coming from 3.2 Endeavour.

[asm3899_CHD]

Originally Posted by GoCool

How is the Fortuner Legender engine compared to Endeavour's 3.2L in terms of real life performance. Do they feel equally powerful in the low's? Let's say if some one is looking for an upgrade of their Endeavour 3.2, is Fortuner Legender a worthy upgrade?

In terms of driveability, there is a big difference. The Fortuner's 2.8 has loads of low end torque and builds speed more effortlessly under part-throttle conditions and even the pre-facelift's 2.8 was better than the 3.2 in this regard. The new 2.8 has more power and torque than 3.2 and this can be particularly felt more on 2 lane highways while overtaking. The gearbox has a 1 second lag when you press full throttle but the car pulls very briskly after that. The surge of power is very strong and car pulls relentlessly even above the speeds of 100. The only thing missing in the 2.8L is the engine note of the 5 cylinder 3.2L.

[cnu]

One of the dealer in Hyd is quoting 135220 for the Standard cover Toyota Protect and 160076 for the Add-on Cover (Zero Dep, RTI, Engine Protect and Key Protect) for the 4x4 AT ? I think this is way steep. How much did you guys pay ? Is the engine protect and key protect worth it ?

[Slushmaster]

Hi All,

Small update from my side, just finished 2 tank full of diesel and calculated the fuel economy based on the oddo reading. The first tank full gave around 15.22 and the second one is 14.81. I am driving in eco mode with gentle throttles and never exceeding 80KMPH as I wanted to drive easy till 2500 Kms.

Two things are coming to my mind:

1) The car is fuel efficient considering the size of the engine and the kerb weight. If you are going to be gentle on throttle, it is going to be gentle on the pocket.
or
2) The milometer is not giving the right readings

Also, still unable to find a comfortable driving position.

Thanks,
Slushmaster