[gadadhar]

Originally Posted by MetalClank

When did you purchase your Fortuner? Also, i have not seen wheel balancing folks touch camber bolts ever. At most, they will add led metal weights around the wheel to balance the wheels. So this is strange.

It was exactly one year back, on 29th Aug, 2021.

It was wheel alignment, adjusting the camber bolt is part of the alignment process. As you rightly said, wheel balancing involves only adding of lead weights.

[PrideRed]

Test drove the ScorpioN today and here are few observations and comparison with Fortuner. I am posting in Fortuner thread for ease of comparison.

1. Engine has good grunt and gearbox is very well mated. While there is no push back feeling, will keep most customers happy. Engine felt bit more silent than Fortuner at higher revs. I asked salesman if he can switch on Sport mode as I could feel lower power, sadly there was none.

2. Has good road presence from front . Looks very wide and height adds to the look. In darker shade, the car looked smaller than what is mentioned on paper.

3. Getting in and out was a bit easier than Fortuner. Has some more fancy features like Sunroof, bigger display.

4. Super light steering, was actually lighter than even my Swift, forget Fortuner. This helps in parking and offroading.

5. The doors felt bit more heavier than Fortuner but sheet metal felt similar grade. The showroom piece already had dings in fender.

6. The height made its presence felt while driving. Has more body roll than Fortuner. Ride is typical body frame and very similar to Facelift Fortuner , which is softer than pre Facelift. What made overall ride worse was lateral movement. Even while going over road humps, people inside would move sideways a lot more than Fortuner or Endeavour. Had really tough time keeping the super light steering firm. Even when taking U turns head would bob around quite a bit. Pothole/bump absorption was similar to Fortuner. I would be really be concerned with high speed driving dynamics. Overall I would rate ride atleast 2-3 points lower than Fortuner on a scale of 10.

7. Space utilisation is poor. Despite being wider, rear seats felt tad narrower, boot has minimal space and third row too had lesser space. I could not slide 2nd row , which is a big miss.

8. While some additional features are offered in comparison to Fortuner, misses a lot of them too. Sliding rear seats, reclining third row, diff lock, ventilated seats, powered passenger seat, drive modes, powered tailgate and some more.

9. Interiors feel more utilitarian than Fortuner, finishing at places is sub-par. The seats easily feel cheaper. The color combination though makes it look better than what it is.

10. The turning radius i think is smaller than Fortuner. This can be quite helpful in city driving and offroading. Being shorter should be easier to handle within City with that light steering.

Well the above was just car-car comparison, bring the price factor in, Scorpio certainly feels VFM. I would say it's 70% of Fortuner at 60% price, again keeping brand , legacy aspirational value aside. The Z4 4WD at 2L premium over Thar, feels like a steal but then Thar has a character/capability which others can just dream off. So the big question would I buy Scorpio over Fortuner? If affordability is not a problem, even now I will go ahead and pick up a Fortuner eyes closed. If I am on a budget, ScorpioN is quite a decent option.

Boot space is extremely poor with all seats up. Last row does not have 50:50 split.


Loved the stance and looks good


Doors are thick, possible reason why rear seats doesnot feel as wide as Fortuner.


Interiors look decent not a deal breaker for me.

[MetalClank]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Test drove the ScorpioN today and here are few observations and comparison with Fortuner. I am posting in Fortuner thread for ease of comparison.

Nice writeup and details, loved it!

I have a brain twister that I am unable to answer myself.

Why does the brain want to compare the ScorpioN with the Fortuner? The Fortuner commands a lot of respect and it will continue to do so (as long as Toyota doesn't play spoilt sport)

To ask this question a bit differently, what kind of a ScorpioN would we have NOT even bothered to compare with the Fortuner? Maybe if the ScorpioN was smaller in dimensions? Maybe if the ScorpioN did not drive this well? Maybe if the ScorpioN was over priced? Maybe if the ScorpioN had a meeky engine? Maybe if an Indian manufacturer did not crack the code with fit and finish? Its mind boggling to think of all the things Mahindra has got right with the ScorpioN that its being compared with a vehicle twice its price and above its segment.

There have been many other comparisons to the Fortuner, but this specific comparison between the ScorpioN and the Fortuner does not have a clear winner. I think it says a lot about the ScorpioN and the true intent why its here. It is here to compete with the stalwarts and maybe send a few back to stone-age. I recollect in one of the presentations by M, they were clearly hinting at the Fortuner without taking its name.

Another trick question : Lets say Money is no problem. Would you buy the Fortuner and still have that sinking feeling that you should gone for the ScorpioN? Or would you buy the ScorpioN and feel Ok that you did not go for the Fortuner? ;-)

I have a feeling the ScorpioN is here for a big fight and it wont go down without a big showdown.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by MetalClank

There have been many other comparisons to the Fortuner, but this specific comparison between the ScorpioN and the Fortuner does not have a clear winner. I think it says a lot about the ScorpioN and the true intent why its here. It is here to compete with the stalwarts and maybe send a few back to stone-age. I recollect in one of the presentations by M, they were clearly hinting at the Fortuner without taking its name.

Another trick question : Lets say Money is no problem. Would you buy the Fortuner and still have that sinking feeling that you should gone for the ScorpioN? Or would you buy the ScorpioN and feel Ok that you did not go for the Fortuner? ;-)

I have a feeling the ScorpioN is here for a big fight and it wont go down without a big showdown.

I guess you did not go through my post fully, please re-read especially the last paragraph. All factors aside, car- car Fortuner feels superior in most area barring few like Sunroof (if that's important), larger screens, ease of driving in city etc. If I have 50L, would pick the Fortuner eyes closed.
To answer your question why the comparison? There are just 3-4 Body on Frame 7seater SUV and may be couple of MUVs. Comparing ScorpioN to another body on frame is more apt than comparing it to a car say Safari or Alcazar.

[MetalClank]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

All factors aside, car- car Fortuner feels superior in most area barring few like Sunroof (if that's important), larger screens, ease of driving in city etc.

I love both the vehicles! At the same time, i like to have a 360 degree view of everything as well.

Below are purely my views, please pardon if I cause some annoyance.

[Technic90]

As per my observation, 90%+ of buyers who can easily afford Fortuner will not bother about ScorpioN and 90%+ of the buyers who can not afford Fortuner will claim they will still buy ScorpioN even if they could afford Fortuner. Says a lot about Indian mindset, in the end it's all about what one can afford.

Regarding the metric shared, I won't go for point by point rebuttal because I don't agree with even a single point (except price) and find some of the parameters too funny to be taken seriously. For eg. a car without auto-dimming IRVM, sliding 2nd row and zero boot space (plus uncomfortable 3rd row folding) can not be termed as superior in comforts. ScorpioN doesn't even have more comforts than Innova.

The only reason ScorpioN will sell more than Fortuner is because it's cheap, not because it is superior. Try pricing ScorpioN at 30-40 lakhs price band and see its fate change overnight and if you don't believe me, look at Alturas. Even with heavy discounts and almost 15 lakhs difference with Fortuner, sales are pathetic to say the least. And no, it's neither because of name nor marketing. The product was good but not good enough to go against Fortuner. If XUV700 couldn't dent Innova sales, ScorpioN will not make an iota of difference to Fortuner.

[THE-U-]

Originally Posted by Technic90

The only reason ScorpioN will sell more than Fortuner is because it's cheap, not because it is superior. Try pricing ScorpioN at 30-40 lakhs price band and see its fate change overnight and if you don't believe me, look at Alturas. Even with heavy discounts and almost 15 lakhs difference with Fortuner, sales are pathetic to say the least. And no, it's neither because of name nor marketing. The product was good but not good enough to go against Fortuner. If XUV700 couldn't dent Innova sales, ScorpioN will not make an iota of difference to Fortuner.

Fortuner and Scorpio N are not in the same segment. Clearly, Scorpio N has a lot of preferable features compared to the Fortuner, but, it is not always about the features. Also note that just because a car sells in more numbers doesn't mean that it is a better car for everyone.

I personally would go for the Alturas G4 compared to the Fortuner - the Alturas looks much more upscale. It would be no contest if the Alturas G4 had a bit more space behind the third row - which I consider critical in a three row SUV. I also think Mahindra did not position the Alturas G4 for success or for higher sales volume. I couldn't get one for a test drive and a Mahindra dealer told me that the earliest they would be able to supply a now ordered Alturas G4 would be February 2023 and they weren't even sure of that. For all practical purposes I think Mahindra has discontinued the Alturas G4. I don't know why they still have it listed on their website. They probably have already sold their stake in SsangYong.

If someone wants a mid-size body on frame SUV, the Fortuner is the only choice now in the Indian market. The Endeavor would have been far and away my choice if it were still available even with a smaller engine. Note that I've had Toyota cars most of my life abroad. I just feel that Toyota India is taking their customers for granted with lower spec'd vehicles. They could technically make the LC Prado here in India and export too but alas they won't. I bought my first new Toyota because it looked better and had more features for the same money as an equivalent Ford on top of having good reliability and resale. Not here in India. You just get the uncomfortable, rolly-polly Fortuner with a heavy steering because that's all Toyota will sell you - for more than what the LC Prado TZ-G sells for in Japan.

Folks are waiting for the XUV 700 for a very long time (is it for more than a year now?). Why would Mahindra worry about the sales numbers of XUV 700 vs that of Innova? I don't understand the rationale behind the comparison as they are not really in the same segment either. I would also like to see the split of taxi vs private Innova sales. There seem to be a whole bunch of Innova/ Crysta taxis on the road.

[Technic90]

Originally Posted by THE-U-

Why would Mahindra worry about the sales numbers of XUV 700 vs that of Innova? I don't understand the rationale behind the comparison as they are not really in the same segment either. I would also like to see the split of taxi vs private Innova sales. There seem to be a whole bunch of Innova/ Crysta taxis on the road.

Where did I say Mahindra is worried about XUV700? I am referring to people's prediction in this forum that XUV700 will eat into Innova sales just like they are predicting ScorpioN will eat into Fortuner sales. People think Innova sales are high because of taxi segment as if India is so rich that every month 5000+ units of 20 lakhs car are bought by taxi owners. Innova taxi segment is just 10% as per this article from 2019. In fact it is cheaper for taxi owners to buy Marazzo/XUV500/XUV700/Scorpio/ScorpioN over Innova and I wonder what's stopping them?

https://www.financialexpress.com/aut...tions/1778337/

[THE-U-]

Originally Posted by Technic90

Where did I say Mahindra is worried about XUV700? I am referring to people's prediction in this forum that XUV700 will eat into Innova sales just like they are predicting ScorpioN will eat into Fortuner sales. People think Innova sales are high because of taxi segment as if India is so rich that every month 5000+ units of 20 lakhs car are bought by taxi owners

The XUV700 is in a different segment altogether in my mind, so I would never expect the Innova sales to be affected by the XUV, but, whoever predicted it, I am sure they had their own reasons.

I would have expected about 25% of Innova sales to be taxi sales based on the yellow tags I see in New Delhi. I don't pretend to understand the market dynamics, but, I would say the Innova is also a substandard product. It doesn't even have a powered tailgate so it goes off my list right away. It doesn't have AWD either so that's another strike against it. So, it is obviously not focused on people like me. It does look nice inside with reasonably comfortable second row seats/ captain's chairs and much more elegant than the Marazzo. All I am saying is, Toyota could do so much better in India but the Indian market is relegated to below Thailand or Philippines markets because they as a company are happy with the substandard products (from a global perspective) they sell in India. Probably, it is the same case with Mahindra and the other companies as well. Mahindra could have added a foot more length behind the third row of both the XUV700 and Scorpio N, but, they didn't bother. The Scorpio N doesn't even have a split third row seat. Pretty pathetic in my opinion.

In any case, the Fortuner and the Scorpio N belong in different categories and I would venture to guess one would not pillage the sales from the other. A person looking at a MB GLS450 might buy a Fortuner instead, but, that would be few and far between. I like to see the comparisons on paper though and these couple of recent posts have been helpful.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Test drove the ScorpioN today and here are few observations and comparison with Fortuner. I am posting in Fortuner thread for ease of comparison.
6. The height made its presence felt while driving. Has more body roll than Fortuner. Ride is typical body frame and very similar to Facelift Fortuner , which is softer than pre Facelift. What made overall ride worse was lateral movement. Even while going over road humps, people inside would move sideways a lot more than Fortuner or Endeavour.

We felt the same, hence the observation in the Review Thread (Mahindra Scorpio-N Review), but we found the ride to improve as we sped, even on bad roads, tried that?

Originally Posted by PrideRed

8. While some additional features are offered in comparison to Fortuner, misses a lot of them too. Sliding rear seats, reclining third row, diff lock, ventilated seats, powered passenger seat, drive modes, powered tailgate and some more.

Saving grace is MLD & BLD. I drove it in the off-road course by M&M and the Scorpio Classic wouldn't have made it I think, it would scrape everywhere & even might have toppled in articulation area. The 4WD variants do not have the driving modes (I prefer this). I drive the Fortuner in normal mode as well.

In the end, you get what you pay for, but yes, the ScorpioN 4XPLOR is a competent all roads tourer & decent VFM at that price point.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Sheel

We felt the same, hence the observation in the Review Thread (Mahindra Scorpio-N Review), but we found the ride to improve as we sped, even on bad roads, tried that?
In the end, you get what you pay for, but yes, the ScorpioN 4XPLOR is a competent all roads tourer & decent VFM at that price point.

Yes, ride did improve with speed but did not remain as flat as Fortuner. On 4 lane, i would prefer the stiffer pre Facelift Fortuner which is even more confidence inspiring. But then overall, facelift Fortuner offers me a good balance and better than ScorpioN.

For someone who is used to Body on Frame and like their SUV to be tough, abuse friendly, ScorpioN offers good value. I also like the fact that Mahindra did not go overboard by slapping too many tech to the car.

[padmrajravi]

I had a look at Scorpio N too. I stopped comparing the moment I got a feel of the third row. Scorpio N is a five-seater in my opinion. There really is no point in comparing once that point sinks in. I used to think Scorpio was 90% of Fortuner, but after checking out the space, I felt that space-wise, it is a segment lower. The comparison of brand equity and quality comes only if the basic premises are comparable. So there is no question of whether a potential Fortuner customer with affordability is looking at Scorpio as an alternative. I am really frustrated Mahindra did the third row like that. It has more wheelbase than Fortuner, they could have made it slightly longer and it would have been almost perfect.

[getsurya]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

I had a look at Scorpio N too. I stopped comparing the moment I got a feel of the third row. Scorpio N is a five-seater in my opinion. There really is no point in comparing once that point sinks in. I used to think Scorpio was 90% of Fortuner, but after checking out the space, I felt that space-wise, it is a segment lower. The comparison of brand equity and quality comes only if the basic premises are comparable. So there is no question of whether a potential Fortuner customer with affordability is looking at Scorpio as an alternative. I am really frustrated Mahindra did the third row like that. It has more wheelbase than Fortuner, they could have made it slightly longer and it would have been almost perfect.

Totally agree with you, I also felt the same when I test drove the new Scorpio N. Overall package is nice, will I buy it over a Fortuner, never!!

Scorpio N has a lot of catch up to do in, quality, brand equity, resale value, space provisions etc.

Wrong to compare both from an actual user/usage perspective!

Whether one likes it or not, Fortuner will always remain aspirational for many.(sorry, if I am sounding brash).

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

Scorpio N is a five-seater in my opinion.

Humbly, would like to put one point forward .

I honestly believe, most cars and SUV's nowadays are proper 4 seaters, because the way the seat for the 5th occupant is designed, it's scooped, has transmission tunnel below it and the under-thigh support is less. Tata's & Mahindra's had flat bench seats & 3 medium built passengers could be accommodated comfortably, not any longer.

Save for kids, rarely is the last row occupied, even be in the Crysta / Innova. Haven't experienced the Carnival, but the last row is just for the sake of it.

Had shared this (Ford Endeavour vs the competition) image earlier too.

[asm3899_CHD]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

.
1. Engine has good grunt and gearbox is very well mated. While there is no push back feeling, will keep most customers happy. Engine felt bit more silent than Fortuner at higher revs. I asked salesman if he can switch on Sport mode as I could feel lower power, sadly there was none.

Did you drive the diesel 4x4 automatic one?