[mAndArk]

I'm in the market for a new car and have been following this thread closely. Thank you everyone for the detailed insights, mighty helpful as always!

The only thing that is keeping me on the fence regarding the Astor (apart from the yet to be announced prices) is the reliability of the engine.

Are these (1.4TC/1.5NA) developed in-house by SAIC or sourced from some other manufacturers like the 2.0MJD that does duty on the Diesel Hector? If developed in-house, are there any long term reviews of the same from other cars/markets that they have been used in, before the Astor?

[dh.harshal]

Originally Posted by neeraj0272

I have TD both. As you know I have finalized City. But I also want to know what is the correct way to drive turbo engines. When I pressed race pedal hard, Astor started moving a full 3 to 5 seconds later from standstill. After it picked up speed of 30 km/h or more then it accelerated beautifully. Is this lag normal or is there a correct way to start the car from standstill?
In Kushaq this lag was about two seconds. I found this lag to be unacceptable in stop and go traffic of Delhi. Or maybe I am driving these turbo engines wrong!

You're spot on mate! Usually the drivers with more experience with varied engines can detect this.
This is called "Turbo Lag" which is eminent in almost all the turbo engines and not in naturally aspirated engines.
The inherent engine design for the turbo itself induces the lag. In Turbo engine, the exhaust gases are reused as Turbo boost back to the engine. Hence there is a lag until enough exhaust gases are produced and redirected back to the engine for the turbo boost.
Now if we couple this with a slow automatic transmission, the lag is prominent and noticable because what you feel is the combined effect of turbo lag and slow auto transmission lag together.

Turbo engines have good mid range compared to naturally aspirated engines and you'll experience far better punch mostly in the 2000-4000 RPM, compared to NA engines.

[KapilD]

Originally Posted by rpmmachine

I like the MG Astor but I want Diesel Automatic and there is no way MG is going to release a Diesel engine with an automatic combination anytime in the next 2 years. Even Hector is offered only in the Manual diesel variant. Hope MG will reconsider their decision on going all Petrol. upcoming E20 Fuel norms are also a point of concern for the Petrol vehicles.

In respect of pollution by cars, here is a snippet of the proposed norm wef 2023. This is going to make a huge impact on investment for engine R&D, hence the shift in the focus away from Diesel by most players and not just MG.

So I have a big doubt on fulfilment of your desire for reconsideration of Diesel engines.

“There are proposals in the works to make Real-Time Emission Monitoring System (RTEMS) mandatory for all cars from 2023 onwards. The basic concept of RTEMS is that there is a huge difference between testing conditions in certifying labs like ARAI and field conditions. Carmakers have been getting away with this with a lower level of emission controls settings at the controlled conditions in ARAI. (Remember Volkswagen scandal!). Volkswagen was able to cheat because certification tests are conducted on a dynamometer, much like a treadmill for cars. The software will trigger and operate the engine on ‘Test condition’ mode during certification which would be vastly different from ‘On Road’ conditions.

Already various tests conducted in Indian roads on random sampling which has shown shocking results that most of the top-selling cars exceed the emissions by 3-6 times on HC +NOX emissions. To take care of this serious issue, RTEMS could be a mandatory accessory for diesel cars. This RTEMS device is a sensor-based automatic data capturing system which monitors emissions on a real-time basis and feeds into a central computer, so Government agencies can have access to the emission data any time using Artificial Intelligence and the rogue cars can be traced.

The cost implications of fitting this device in diesel cars are estimated to be around 2 lacs per car, so effectively diesel cars would be that much more expensive than petrol since in petrol cars it is relatively easy to control emissions. ”

Link: http://bwautoworld.businessworld.in/...4-2020-190217/

[rpmmachine]

Originally Posted by KapilD

In respect of pollution by cars, here is a snippet of the proposed norm wef 2023. This is going to make a huge impact on investment for engine R&D, hence the shift in the focus away from Diesel by most players and not just MG.

So I have a big doubt on fulfilment of your desire for reconsideration of Diesel engines.

“There are proposals in the works to make Real-Time Emission Monitoring System (RTEMS) mandatory for all cars from 2023 onwards. The basic concept of RTEMS is that there is a huge difference between testing conditions in certifying labs like ARAI and field conditions. Carmakers have been getting away with this with a lower level of emission controls settings at the controlled conditions in ARAI. (Remember Volkswagen scandal!). Volkswagen was able to cheat because certification tests are conducted on a dynamometer, much like a treadmill for cars. The software will trigger and operate the engine on ‘Test condition’ mode during certification which would be vastly different from ‘On Road’ conditions.

Thanks for sharing the information but please note that there isn't much difference in BS6 emissions when you compare Petrol vs diesel.
Whereas you burn more petrol per KM than diesel.
If we compare both then for example for 10k KM (which is very less) running one will burn 833Ltrs of Petrol is he is getting 12km/L while he will only burn 500Ltrs of diesel in case 20km/L.
So 500Ltrs of diesel will produce less pollution than 833ltrs of petrol I think. WHen you compare it on a very large scale for everyday usage of all the cars running in-country then imagine the difference here. I have taken the example of Petrol and diesel XUV300 with real-world fuel figures from my friend's group circle. This may vary for different cars.

2023 is far away, Pollution from vehicles is far less when you compare the overall pollution levels. They need to control other sources too. Countries like INDIA don't have enough electricity as well as charging infrastructure. Even in countries like the USA people still prefer the ICE over the EV's. In Europe, people choose hybrids over EV's. Maruti tried but failed to develop a diesel engine that's why they quit. When you compare heavy vehicles they will burn much more petrol than diesel.
What is the benefit, if you are burning twice the fuel(petrol) and contribute in same level of pollution as Diesel?
This is subjective and I have different views than yours.

Till BS6 came into force by Law did the carmakers stopped to sell BS4 diesel engines to contribute? NO, they didn't, same way MG can think again and grab the market.
Hyundai and Mahindra are selling in good numbers even in Diesel too.

While petrol touching 110 and diesel 95 I think its harder to choose petrol over diesel when you know you will burn double the fuel.

What will be the effect of E20 blended fuel on current petrol vehicles? Hope it won't come with surprises.

Changes and difference in pollution level between petrol and diesel vehicles for BS4 as well as BS6. Source
Sorry to post this here as this is slightly off-topic. Mods Please erase it if found inappropriate.

[KapilD]

Originally Posted by rpmmachine

Thanks for sharing the information but please note that there isn't much difference in BS6 emissions when you compare Petrol vs diesel.
..
2023 is far away, ...

This is subjective and I have different views than yours.

Till BS6 came into force by Law did the carmakers stopped to sell BS4 diesel engines to contribute? NO, they didn't, same way MG can think again and grab the market.
Hyundai and Mahindra are selling in good numbers even in Diesel too.

Your sentiments are appreciated brother, and I do acknowledge the fact diesel engines are more efficient per ml of fuel.

Taking a leaf out of your book, I would like to point here that, the economies of scale is what would be the factor playing in the minds of these manufacturers. The return on investment would not be as high for MG as it would be for the likes of M&M, Hyundai and Maruti. The cost of investment would be offset by the sales volumes of these players.

However, this is very difficult for the low volume players in the mass market players like VW, Skoda, MG unless you have huge margin per car which is difficult in the mass market.

Hence, I believe diesels would only be provided by the players who can offset the RoI against volume of sales like Hyundai, M&M and Maruti (but I don't know what Suzuki was thinking removing the diesels).

[Venkatesh]

MG Astor ADAS features working explained via official video

https://youtu.be/FmWXKIYm1jQ

Some screen shots

Adaptive Cruise Control







Lane Departure Warning







Lane Keep Assist







Summary



Source : Rushlane

[shibulijack]

Originally Posted by 911CarerraS

Has anyone here driven the new city and Astor ? I'm confused between the two i.e City Zx CVT and Astor 1.3 TC, can anyone give an insight as to which one feels more engaging and peppier to drive?

I’ve shortlisted these two cars too and took test drives of them both.

First of all, I’m a sedate driver. So my definition of peppy & engaging to drive might differ from an enthusiast.

- City is better refined, but Astor is not that far behind.
- City’s CVT is butter smooth when going light on the pedal and is definitely ahead of Astor in city commutes. There is some turbo lag in Astor albeit it’s masked well to an extent.
- Astor has more grunt in the mid range and so it felt zippier to drive amidst traffic while I had to revv the City a bit more to quickly overtake that annoying auto rickshaw on a busy road. Maybe CVT makes things worse here.
- City’s engine note sounded sportier to my ears than Astor’s (but I could be partial here since I’ve always loved the ivtec).
- Obviously, body roll is a lot more on the Astor than the City. This would make a big difference during the highway journeys if you’re driving enthusiastically. I haven’t taken Astor on the highways yet, but I suspect it would be as bouncy as the City given it’s softer suspension.

Honestly, City and Astor are two different beasts altogether. NA vs Turbo. Sedan vs SUV. TC vs CVT.

I think it boils down to our individual preferences and you have to take test drives yourself to figure out what works best for you. For me, the interior fit and finish (city is good, but Astor feels like a segment above), the advanced tech (ADAS, 360 camera) and the family favourite panoramic sunroof shifted the scale towards the Astor. But if I had to pick one purely based on the driving aspect alone and ignore the rest, I would choose the City.

[Naetik30]

Over the weekend visited Jeep (Compass), Hyundai (Alcazar, Creta), Kia (Seltos) and MG (Astor/Hector). Did not take a test drive of any. Want to short list a couple before the test drives.

First visited the Jeep showroom. Checked out the Model S. The current version of the Compass is a definite improvement over the last versions dashboard. My wife felt the rear doors are a size too small. And MG Astor is definitely comparable to Jeep Compass with respect to interiors. Found the seats to be a tad hard when compared to the rest.

Then visited the Hyundai showroom. This was the most underwhelming experience of all. Neither Alcazar or Creta felt like they are worth 20L+. Just took a customary look to confirm we do not want the Creta or the Alcazar. In the parking, found a Tucson, but as next gen is few months away (may consider for later).

Then visited the Kia showroom. Seltos's interiors is probably the one in the same price range that comes closest to Astor in terms of quality. But safety wise, on paper Astor trumps hands down.

Now, the main reason for me visiting all the above showrooms is to get a feel for the cabin and boot space.
1. Creta/Seltos and my Verna all have similar cabin space as the Astor.
2. Boot space is definitely smaller in the Astor when compared to Creta/Seltos. Not by too much, but smaller for sure. The noticeable bumps due to the wheel wells protruding in to the bootspace is the main cause for this. Also the bootlip is placed a few inches above the spare wheel well. This is an unnecessary waste of precious boot space on the Astor.
3. The boot space cannot be compared to the Verna for sure.
4. But in any other way you look at it - Jeep Compass is the closest to Astor by means of quality of interiors and the feel-good factor.
5. The ground clearance and actual boot space are still unknowns.
6. Will also need to take a test drive of the Astor.

Basically, what Astor has done is - I am not finding it to be THE PERFECT car due to mainly the boot space. And it has spoilt me for any of the other cars in the same range. This coming from someone who would never have considered a car from MG even 1 month back - says a lot of what MG has on its hands with the Astor.

Go forward plan - Will wait for the price reveal on the Astor. If the launch price is too good to be true, may just go for it. If not, will wait for few months for new Tucson to launch and then take a call.

Side note: The Mahindra showroom was close by. Saw a few XUV 7OO on the road, but somehow did not like the exterior of the car (mainly the front).

[EmpyreanKnight]

I visited MG showroom, once more to have a look at Astor and may be test drive it if possible, but they have not started test drive in my city yet. Few more observations on Astor compared to my current ride Hyundai Elite i20.

• The Sound system is just wow, I thought my i20 had a good one but Astor's system is more than enough for me. (they say the one in hector is better)
  
  
• I observed inconsistent panel gaps, where the bonnet line meets the headlamp and front bumper, may be this is a one of case but attaching picture about the area that I saw it on demo car (I can even see it now in the image, may be it's in my mind since i saw it First hand)

• strangely there is no unlock button for rear passengers, there is just a handle to pull when the car is unlocked from driver side, in i20 there is a small lever above the internal door handle for each door, when the lever is pulled, it unlocks that particular door, it was same in friends 2012 polo, may be some kind of European design thing. (but i find the button from my i20 more convenient to have)

• I checked the driver and rear seat comfort of Astor and quickly hopped into the hector standing beside it and I must say, hector is a better in overall comfort feeling and under thigh support for a six footer like me

• last point but a observation based on the feeling that I had - after returning from showroom, I parked my i20 and as usual I turned back and gave it a one more look and suddenly felt, somehow my i20 elite still looks much cleaner and classic in design, may be i am biased.

To sum it all up, i am really excited for Astor, with all the features and creature comforts on offer, but I somehow don't feel that it seems to be a upgrade from my current ride. If I am planning to spend 2 million bucks, I thing that feeling is really important for me.

[Pras92003]

Originally Posted by EmpyreanKnight

I after returning from showroom, I parked my i20 and as usual I turned back and gave it a one more look and suddenly felt, somehow my i20 elite still looks much cleaner and classic in design, may be i am biased.[/list]To sum it all up, i am really excited for Astor, with all the features and creature comforts on offer, but I somehow don't feel that it seems to be a upgrade from my current ride. If I am planning to spend 2 million bucks, I thing that feeling is really important for me.

I had the exact same feeling. I own a Baleno. I know MG is going to be much more safer and that's the thing pulling me towards it. If they price it right, maybe.

[Transmission]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

MG product mgmt. team did say they might use color and highlight (caliper paint, alloy design etc.) combinations to differentiate models, so it's possible that eventually only some variants in certain colors have red calipers and the turbine-design alloys.

We'll have to wait and see a larger sample of production cars to verify if they did indeed go that way.

Chetan, would it be possible to measure the actual ground clearance of this car in the full TeamBHP review?

It appears that this car - atleast overseas - has got pretty low GC compared to the cars already in the Indian market
The Thai version claims a "minimum" (what is minimum - laden?) ground clearance of 170mm: https://www.mgcars.com/en/mg-models/new-mg-zs/spec

Given that MG India hasn't said a word about it nor has anyone else, I think its a very useful piece of information for a potential customer to have.

In particular, I'd love to know whats the standing GC (ie car ready to drive but no passengers or luggage) and a typical full load (say with 4 passengers). Even if the methods of measuring GC can vary, having a similar measurement on a Seltos/Creta whose GC is known would be very helpful IMHO.

I'm very interested in this comparison if it were possible (since its not really possible for me to check it out on a test drive).

Thank you!

[airbus]

Originally Posted by Naetik30

This coming from someone who would never have considered a car from MG even 1 month back - says a lot of what MG has on its hands with the Astor.

Go forward plan - Will wait for the price reveal on the Astor. If the launch price is too good to be true, may just go for it.

That makes two of us.

I got a call from MG Showroom to take a test drive. I plan to go tomorrow or day after tomorrow. My wife is liking the car and kids are already sold out to the AI assistant

I need to first check whether I can migrate from TUV300 to a lower driving position. Also, need to wait for pricing information to justify whether it's worth to go for a new car with current limited driving.

[ant_vas]

Spent the whole of sunday test driving Kiger, Astor and visiting Tata, Volkswagen and Mahindra Showrooms.

Has asked the sales advisor of Renault to get Kiger home for test drive. Took a good drive on variety of roads with steep inclines, no roads, flat roads and the car performed beautifully. The pick and acceleration was wonderful and the suspension setup is amazing.

Next went to Housr road and started with Tata showroom. Checked out the Safari as a friend of mine is interested in a 7 seater. While the build quality, the "Thud" when closing the door, driving position and over quality of the car all appeared solid, the 3rd row was really a disappointment. plus the light color interiors were a big no as he has 2 kids and the interiors are bound to get soiled pretty quickly. The showroom was fairly crowded and families checking out various Tata Cars on Display. The showroom experience wasn't nothing to write home about. may be due to crowd. after collecting out info it took them few minutes to send a advisor to us. by the time we had checked out the interiors.

Volkswagen showroom was next door, so we walked in and checked out the Taigun. The car looks and feels Solid. The build quality was top notch. The interiors were good. we tried the wireless android auto and played music and the were left impressed. The space on the rear was also good. even though test drive was available, we skipped it as we didn't have VW as part of our plans and it was a spur of the moment visit to the showroom. would certainly like to do a test drive of the 1L turbo version at a later date. The showroom experience was good, we were attended to within couple of minutes.

Next we visited the MG showroom and it was crowded. As soon as we entered, we were welcomes and sales advisor assigned. We checkout the display car and the sales advisor took our license details and arranged for a TD of the 1.3L version with in 5 mins. The car didn't have any vibrations, pickup was linear, NVH levels were pretty well controlled. The 360 camera was wonderful. in the split screen if you select the a side of the display, the main camera will switch to that camera. the AI assistant was slow in responding may be due to mask we were wearing. The drive quality was impressive. Didn't bother to checkout the ADAS feature as didn't have that much time.

As per the SA the unofficial books are also cancelled and amount refunded. Company is expected to hold a flash sale sometime in October and variant wise details along with Price list is expected by this weekend. As per him we can expect a mileage of around 13 - 14 in the city as Hector is around 12 and Astor being lighter is bound to give better mileage.

One thing i didn't like in Astor is the rear seat. the thigh support is almost not there! the middle seat is pretty useless making this car a 4 seater. even a child might not be comfortable in the middle seat.

Next we went to Mahindra showroom and man it was a "mela" they had put up extra tent to seat people waiting for test drive. we even had to wait for few minutes to checkout the display car in the showroom. checked the display car, checked the seating, interiors and collected the price and left. Compared to Safari, the 3rd row is certainly better in XUV700. 2 adults can sit comfortably, even though the knee will be in raised position. the thigh support in the middle row is also good.

Lots of families and we even saw a family literally squeezing 2 in the front passenger and 4 in the middle row seat to checkout the comfort. personally to me neither option looked comfortable from an observer point of view. My friend is certainly interested in XUV700, but by the looks of the crows am sure the waiting period will be huge

[CircleOfLife]

Had just done a very short drive of MG Astor. Sales advisor was unwilling to offer a longer test drive despite the fact it was literally and there was no one in queue.

Requested a longer drive, was flatly denied.

The car that was on test drive (1.3 Turbo) was the same earlier which was used as display car. Bot had niggles and that isn't yet remediated

My daily drive is a 1.2 TSI and very well versed with automatic characteristics.

Come to first impression on short test drive. Not focusing on features.

• 1.3 was wearing Goodyear shoes (Not sure if this is going to be standard or company will give continental for actual deliveries) There was a 1.5 shine at showroom that was shodded with Continental. Strange indeed.
  
• At idle there were minor vibration felt on the steering.
  
• There is slight lag at initial start which is expected in torque convertor auto. I was comfortable with this lag as this is what I face in a day to day. One will learn how to tame this with experience behind the wheel.
  
• Is it manageable in B2B traffic? Resounding yes.
  
• Does the steering modes make any difference? Yes, but minor. Don't expect day and night difference here.
  
• As it was short test drive most of the ADAS functions were on, but sales advisor wasn't too sure on how to set auto cruise control.
  
• There is not a huge difference between sport and normal driving mode. Just holds a gear longer.
  
• Suspension set up is neither too firm neither too soft. Didn't test over speed breaker. There were none the test drive route.
  
• Would have liked the OVRM to be tad bigger.
  
• Seats were easy to adjust and find a good position. Density of foam used is very good balance (Not too soft or too hard).
  
• Breaks were spot on. Well done MG.
  
• Sore point was the 360 degree camera. Clarity of camera feed is much to be desired.
  
• IVRM without auto dimming? Just beats the logic of a car with all the tech package, minus the basic functionality
  
• Another area were i felt short changed was not providing rake and reach adjustment for steering adjustment. It is a boon if you have multiple folks driving the same car. Single car owners can relate better.
  
• Boot space. This is one area that could be make or break for some. Rather than official number would like to put few suitcases and check the practicality.
  
• One thing no one has covered is teeny whiney first aid kit. Cost cutting here. I couldn't check the contents as it was sealed and sales advisor was not interested to open either.
  
• Electronic parking brake indicator on the switch was not working.
  
• For 1.5 NA variant there was no underbody cladding protection provided. Wasn't able to check for 1.3 turbo.

Once a longer test drive is available to test all functions then can only comment handling characteristics and driving dynamics.

It is resounding yes for any one who is looking for a city vehicle, albeit the pricing should be icing on cake.

[nirmalrshah]

Has anyone tried both the Astor and the Nissan Kicks Turbo (the 1.3 CTV ones)? Any comparisons?

I test drove the Kicks a few weeks back and placed the order for it. At that time Astor existed only in some "coming soon" news and a few spyshots. Nissan has not been able to deliver the car yet (and does not seem to have a clue when they will), so I have the option of cancelling the order, should I chose to go with the Astor.

Overall, I am not so concerned about ADAS - I have been driving an ADAS-less car for several years and taken it on drives around most of south-India without hassles. I am keen to hear opinions on driving dynamics and handling.