[muni]

Originally Posted by Pramathyu

What I really don't understand is that the leg room for rear passengers is poor in this car and no one seems to be complaining?

That is not true. I have sat in person in all the seats and dint find any issue at all. I would go to the extent of saying that 2 Six footers can sit behind each other without their knees touching anything and not complaining. The under thigh support is pretty good as well. One of the best looking cars to have been launched except for the lack of powerful engines and Torque converter for automatic option.

[mr_robot]

Originally Posted by muni

That is not true. I have sat in person in all the seats and dint find any issue at all. I would go to the extent of saying that 2 Six footers can sit behind each other without their knees touching anything and not complaining.

Can confirm. I’m 6ft2in and I set the driver seat position to my comfort and sat in the rear seat. Knees were not touching the front seat but contact with front seat was there two inches down my and that is going to be an issue only when travelling for long distances.

[Horizon85]

Tata uses the diesel engine from Fiat. And the petrol is their own. In my honest opinion, I feel Tata should start taking the petrol engines from Suzuki.

With EV revolution gaining momentum, it may not be a wise R&D investment to build a new engine.

Imagine the 1.2 K series engine in the Altroz and Punch. That would be a game-changer.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Mahindra goes: "With our vehicle dynamics - what's the maximum power output we can get away with, so the owners don't kill themselves (from a rollover)? 150hp on a Thar - let's do that!"

And TATA Motors goes - "With our excellent dynamics - what's the least power we can get away with, so the owners don't kill themselves (out of boredom!)? 16 - 18 seconds to 100 - let's do that!"

A similar approach was taken with the Altroz as well - initially and even now (motors are still detuned compared to Nexon spec).

Brilliant

I had said somewhere that the weakest point of TML is the strongest of MSIL and vice versa but Mahindra is also a brilliant match and better.

Agree this incremental release of power and gears by TML is frustrating.

And a good point that their models aeem to be developed with the master caution of don't touch the Nexon

If the Altroz had the powetrain of Nexon then people might think that the Altroz is more comfortable, drives better so do we really need the Nexon ?
TML ensures that this question never comes in mind.

Coming to the Punch its a looker and its going to be a seller, safely assuming a good GNCAP rating.

The powertrain combo, though only adequate is more suited for this kind of vehicle rather than the Tiago/Altroz where you expect sporty/sprightly performance from the lower seating position and overall dynamics but this is IMHO.

[ATRONIX]

Originally Posted by Horizon85

Tata uses the diesel engine from Fiat. And the petrol is their own. In my honest opinion, I feel Tata should start taking the petrol engines from Suzuki.

Imagine the 1.2 K series engine in the Altroz and Punch. That would be a game-changer.

While the refinement would be better, the performance may not differ due to the higher kerb weight of the Tata cars. Baleno/Swift weigh 870-900kgs whereas Altroz/Punch weigh in excess of 1000kgs. Case in point, the Tata Vista used the same Fiat Multijet as the Maruti Swift, but still lagged behind in comparison. With the rising fuel prices customers in this price bracket are looking for fuel efficient cars, and Tata is looking to provide just that with their 3-cylinder units.

[pugram]

Originally Posted by Horizon85

Tata uses the diesel engine from Fiat

Tata has moved on from the Fiat sourced diesel engine. The last of the cars with that engine would be Bolt if I remeber correctly. The current engines are their own, tuned with help from JLR probably.

I am hoping they find a valid reason to plonk the 1.5 D into the Punch. With fuel prices heading North it would not pinch to pay higher for Diesel engine variant and expect recovery through the mileage it provides

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

The Nexon should have been the Harrier with a full complement of petrol and diesel engines to compete with Mahindra, MG and Hyundai-Kia. The Harrier should have been the Safari , a proper 4x4 SUV continuing its rich legacy.

You`d be surprised to know that although plenty of people liked the old Safari, not many bought it, It looked good and came with 4x4 but that is about it. If it was not for Tata, it would have been discontinued long time ago.

The Safari name plate is probably selling at its highest numbers ever at the moment - while not being a Safari at all, what an irony.

Nexon is perhaps their most successful brand after Indica V2 & Sumo, it is a good idea to protect it and launch a new version before they make the same mistake all over again.

[pradeep_mvpa]

Originally Posted by Horizon85

Imagine the 1.2 K series engine in the Altroz and Punch. That would be a game-changer.

I don't think so. In reality, most of the NA engines offered in premium hatchbacks offer pretty much the same performance. Baleno has a huge advantage due to lesser kerb weight. The same engine in Punch/Altroz will not result in equivalent performance.

Agree that K12 engine is far more refined compared to TATA's 1.2 NA.

[nikhilthegunner]

Originally Posted by pugram

Tata has moved on from the Fiat sourced diesel engine. The last of the cars with that engine would be Bolt if I remeber correctly. The current engines are their own, tuned with help from JLR probably.

Originally Posted by Horizon85

Tata uses the diesel engine from Fiat.

Just to clarify, Tata Motors only uses Fiat's Diesel engine for the Harrier and the Safari. The Nexon and Altroz have Tata's own 1.5L Revotorq diesel. The Tiago and Tigor in the BS4 era used to come with a diesel but that too was Tata's own creation. Post implementation of BS6, it has disappeared completely thanks to cost considerations.

[pugram]

Originally Posted by nikhilthegunner

Just to clarify, Tata Motors only uses Fiat's Diesel engine for the Harrier and the Safari. The Nexon and Altroz have Tata's own 1.5L Revotorq diesel.

My bad - I was speaking about the small capacity diesels and was not clear about it.

Thanks for clarifying

[Keeleri_Achu]

Originally Posted by pradeep_mvpa

Baleno has a huge advantage due to lesser kerb weight. The same engine in Punch/Altroz will not result in equivalent performance.

Originally Posted by ATRONIX

While the refinement would be better, the performance may not differ due to the higher kerb weight of the Tata cars.

This is the excerpt from the official review of Ritz, the first car to feature the K12M engine. It weighed 1100 kg.

The brand new 1.2 L DOHC 84 BHP (85 PS @ 6,000 rpms) engine is simply fantastic! This motor is way more refined than the 1.3L in the Swift, has good in-town driveability (113 NM of torque) and, one can tell, a couple of generations newer. It was even fun taking her to 6,000 rpms, the motor is fairly revv happy (though progress is slow and noise levels higher after 5000 odd rpms). The engine is very tractable and boasts a flexible nature; it is at home pottering around in the city or stretching her legs on the open road. This engine is so good that I see it makings it way into the Swift as well (soon?). The gearshift quality is smooth & sure-slotting in the petrol.

We owned the Ritz for 7 years before replacing it with an Ignis, which is about 250kg lighter. Believe me, the K12 was fantastic in the Ritz and feels only slightly better in the Ignis. Honestly, unless you don't do a drag race between them, you would hardly feel a difference in daily use (I'm not complaining. The benchmark is really high).

On paper figures never tell the complete story. You can have the same power figures, but the way it is delivered matters a lot.

My cousin has a Tiago (bought under my advise) and a dear friend has a Tigor. I've clocked more than 3000km combined in both of them. When it comes to performance, the 1 ton+ Ritz would still smoke both the Tiago and Tigor. I'm not talking about 0-100 drags. Just normal in town or highway runs. The K12 is like an all aluminum golden retriever.

The Punch has a lot of pros, engine just isn't one of them.

[Pramathyu]

Originally Posted by muni

That is not true. I have sat in person in all the seats and dint find any issue at all. I would go to the extent of saying that 2 Six footers can sit behind each other without their knees touching anything and not complaining. The under thigh support is pretty good as well. One of the best looking cars to have been launched except for the lack of powerful engines and Torque converter for automatic option.

Firstly it is true. I was sat at the back for a good 20 mins and as soon as I relaxed a bit and leaned a bit from that extremely upright posture there was no knee room left.

Also if the driver would slightly lean back the seat touches my knees.

Even if you don't believe me here is kranti sambhav for you guys having the same troubles.

Btw nobody sits upright for longer durations of a drive.
It's adequate space if someone is shorter than 5'8"/9".

https://youtu.be/rtI81_h14M4

Not just him other youtubers have also pointed it out.
Even the legroom for the driver is a bit cramped at the left knee.

[RaghuVis]

Early launch now! Hope to have a cracking debut on 18th. They have even rattled MSIL!

[Horizon85]

Originally Posted by ATRONIX

While the refinement would be better, the performance may not differ due to the higher kerb weight of the Tata cars. Baleno/Swift weigh 870-900kgs whereas Altroz/Punch weigh in excess of 1000kgs. Case in point, the Tata Vista used the same Fiat Multijet as the Maruti Swift, but still lagged behind in comparison. With the rising fuel prices customers in this price bracket are looking for fuel efficient cars, and Tata is looking to provide just that with their 3-cylinder units.

Thanks for the nice points. Agree to the kerb weight dynamics as others have pointed out as well. But, think of the free revving nature of Suzuki K12. However, 3-cylinder is what most manufacturers have chosen for fuel efficiency including Suzuki themselves in the K10 series.

[Horizon85]

Originally Posted by pugram

Tata has moved on from the Fiat sourced diesel engine. The last of the cars with that engine would be Bolt if I remeber correctly. The current engines are their own, tuned with help from JLR probably.

I am hoping they find a valid reason to plonk the 1.5 D into the Punch. With fuel prices heading North it would not pinch to pay higher for Diesel engine variant and expect recovery through the mileage it provides

Yes, but the pricing of Punch with 1.5 D would be higher. I'd personally love this combination. This is similar to me always dreaming of Skoda offering the 1.5 TSI with DSG on the Rapid before they discontinue the model. But, it will not make sense for the manufacturer.