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Old 23rd June 2022, 16:29   #1081
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Default Re: Kia Carens Review

In my opinion this is really a dismal performance for that price. They can't even afford to manage a 4 Star. Imagine the plight of folks who purchased the top variants. Safety is really important at this generation as we can see so many things happening around.

Also there was an article circulating around which says that they are targeting atleast 4 stars. Kudos to the great marketing that has been around that article

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Originally Posted by akannath View Post
Key sections here:

Alejandro Furas, secretary general of Global NCAP, said, “We expected a better performance from this model. It remains a cause for concern that global car brands such as Kia, that normally achieve 5-star ratings in other markets, are still not reaching this level in India.”[

This is of particular concern and shows the step-motherly treatment meted out to India by Hyundai/Kia despite raking in the moolahs.

Importantly though, the Carens has improved on its overall score in comparison to the Seltos. The Carens has 9.30 points in adult occupant protection as opposed to the Seltos’ 8.03 points. Meanwhile, in child occupant protection, the Carens is significantly better with 3-stars and 30.99 points as opposed to Seltos’ mere 2 stars and 15 points.
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Old 23rd June 2022, 17:47   #1082
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Although I would largely agree with the sentiment expressed, Carens still stands out for me. Can you name one 7 seater MPV in the Indian market today that offers a very useable 3rd row, plus decent equipment right form base model, 6 airbags and a plethora of safety kit as standard across all variants and with a better than 3* rating? Factor in the asking price for Prestige 1.5NA which is 10.69L ex-showroom and it is still a huge VFM proposition in my view.

If I am not mistaken, the only other player is Ertiga which too scored a 3* and offers lot less equipment and quality interiors.

The VFM argument goes out of the window the moment you step into higher Prestige Plus and Luxury variants though.
Sorry, can't resist myself from responding. The VFM tag is subjective here. If it is Maruti, it's tin-can, and if it's Kia it's VFM? just because a few extra "non-life saving" features?

With the same logic, they can very well plonk a few more seats by increasing the rear overhang, making it a VFM "Carnival" selling at 15 Lakhs!
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Old 23rd June 2022, 18:01   #1083
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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
Sorry, can't resist myself from responding. The VFM tag is subjective here. If it is Maruti, it's tin-can, and if it's Kia it's VFM? just because a few extra "non-life saving" features?

With the same logic, they can very well plonk a few more seats by increasing the rear overhang, making it a VFM "Carnival" selling at 15 Lakhs!
Can you please point out where have I referred to Maruti as a tin-can?
Would appreciate if you actually read my post before responding.

My comparison was with the Ertiga (the only 7 seater from MS) and this is as tin-canny as Carens, given both are 3* rated. But Carens offers much better interiors and more kit and features and a slightly more useable 3rd row than Ertiga. All this being offered for 10.69L makes it a VFM offering.

Why do you think Ertiga sold so many? Its reliable, easy to maintain and backed by super ASS from MS and easy on the pocket. Not because its safe. Heck, it offers nearly 80% of an Innova at less than half the price.

But now, Carens has upped the game with the 1.5NA in its current offering. Thats all I am saying - not that one is built like a tank while the other is a tin-can.

And no need to extrapolate what I said to dizzying heights when that was not intended in the first place.

Peace.
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Old 23rd June 2022, 19:00   #1084
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Originally Posted by akannath View Post
And no need to extrapolate what I said to dizzying heights when that was not intended in the first place.

Peace.
Sir, our communication is going in different trajectory I think. My rant is not directed to you, it’s for Kia. Unlike Ertiga, Carens is positioned as a premium MUV. I don’t think they are allowing commercial registration for Carens (I may be wrong). And Ertiga got 3 star even with just 2 airbags. Many cars are getting 5star with 2 airbags. Yes, it has better interiors, and more kit (I won’t call it “better kit” though without the rear wipers on lower variants that are “VFM”).

It’s a Seltos with additional seats, hence the extrapolation. If it is designed to be unsafe, no harm in adding additional seats and carving out a different segment altogether.

We bash Ford and GM for chickening out, we bash Honda and Nissan for being directionless, we bash Maruti for being too slow and inertial/ unworthy of being a market leader, we bash VW/Škoda for a lot of things. Remember how much bashing we doled out to Renault when they put smaller airbag in Duster, or tried passing us a Kaptur as a Captur?

That’s what we need to do with Kia as well. We are all praise for them bringing much needed freshness and innovation in the market. They need bashing as well for being unsafe and not doing enough to change that even after knowing what happened with Seltos crash test performance.

I am not a Kia owner so it is easier for me. But we seriously need to rethink what features should be considered for value for money tag.
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Old 23rd June 2022, 19:27   #1085
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On professional front, I have stopped delegating critical assignments to my juniors who voluntarily buy such unsafe cars even after crash results are out because a person who can't value life of loved ones how can he/she be dependable for a critical assignment.
You mean to say if a person cannot afford to buy a safe car he doesn't deserve equal opportunity at work place? What kind of discrimination is this? Hope your Human Resource folks are not on Team-bhp

Last edited by Sheel : 24th June 2022 at 00:48. Reason: Typo.
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Old 23rd June 2022, 19:45   #1086
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Sir, our communication is going in different trajectory I think. My rant is not directed to you, it’s for Kia.
Apologies if that wasnt specifically directed at me. I assumed so since you quoted my post.

As I said earlier, I agree with the overall sentiments revolving safety of cars. Its not something that should be a matter of choice or an option. But given the current state of things in India, I cant recall many brands apart from home-grown majors Tata and Mahindra (and Brezza from MS) who have given us "safe" cars. Its a sad state of affairs but it is what it is. In such a scenario, VFM does not even include safety ratings for most people, in my view. They simply look at what you get for the money you pay, not how protected they will be in the event of a crash.

And this is the definition of VFM that is applied generally by the majority. And it is in this context that I mentioned Carens and wasn't praising them a bit. I was pissed a lot when they hiked the price for Carens without every thinking of ethics and morality.

Until there is greater awareness among public for safety ratings, this definition will not change and even an unsafe car packed with gizmos and utility will be seen as VFM if offered at lower price point and will continue to sell in huge numbers.

I dont own either a Maruti or a Kia have no particular affinity to either of them. My heart throbs for desi boys Mahindra and Tata. And like all manufacturers, criticisms and bashing are warranted when they offer unsafe cars.

Last edited by akannath : 23rd June 2022 at 20:01.
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Old 23rd June 2022, 20:18   #1087
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Default Re: Kia Carens Review

Result is on the expected line. Without 6 airbags (though it doesn’t extend to the third row) and ESP, perhaps Carens score (9.3) would have been more close to that of Seltos (8.0).

For a better frontal off-set crash test rating, KIA India needs to make modifications in BIW (body-in-white), particularly strengthening A+B pillar sub-frame. They can do that easily (technologically competent), but out of corporate greed (profit), they don’t do it. Greed is evil, as this topic is related to safety of occupant(s).

Here you go KIA India. Fixed your Carens-brochure’s page no 6.

Kia Carens Review-carens.png
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Old 23rd June 2022, 20:39   #1088
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Default Re: Kia Carens Review

Had just got the Carens a week back

Marginally better result than Seltos, mainly due to the safety kit offered as standard with Carens. However, the culprit in all Hyundai cars so far tested by GNCAP has been 'unstable structure'. I can't recall any of the tested Hyundais that had a stable body shell.

Hyundai's marketing team rules the company - cram all the safety features that can be advertised, and to hell with strong structure. Profit is all that matters.

Note to self: never drive this car above 70.

BTW the report https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...fact-sheet.pdf
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Old 23rd June 2022, 22:47   #1089
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Originally Posted by BlackMambaXX View Post
You mean to say if a person cannot afford to buy a safe care he doesn't deserver equal opportunity at work place? What kind of discrimination is this? Hope your Human Resource folks are not on Team-bhp
If no alternate safe car in segment be responsible towards your loved ones and buy a safe car from lower segment or wait for couple of years and buy safe car from next segment.

It is not discrimination but one of the several factors that reflects irresponsible mindset of an individual. The person would have shown responsible behaviour in something else so no opportunity lost. Moreover I don't track cars in the parking space so people let that benefit of doubt

Last edited by Sheel : 24th June 2022 at 00:52. Reason: ppl = people. Please do not use SMS language. Thanks.
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Old 23rd June 2022, 23:09   #1090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steadfast View Post
If no alternate safe car in segment be responsible towards your loved ones and buy a safe car from lower segment or wait for couple of years and buy safe car from next segment.

It is not discrimination but one of the several factors that reflects irresponsible mindset of an individual. The person would have shown responsible behaviour in something else so no opportunity lost. Moreover I don't track cars in the parking space so people get that benefit of doubt
Such swiping statement on the basis of choice of a car? For God's sake the person driving Kia Carens wont die because it is a 3* rated car. It still has many active safety features as standard which would actually help in situations that GNCAP tests wont register.
Not defending the poor performance of Koreans in any sense but choice of car is no way a judgement towards a person's behaviour or responsibility. Rather how your driving and traffic sense matters more.

Last edited by Sheel : 24th June 2022 at 00:53. Reason: Quoted post edited for SMS language. Thanks.
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Old 23rd June 2022, 23:21   #1091
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Default Re: Kia Carens Review

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Originally Posted by steadfast View Post
On professional front, I have stopped delegating critical assignments to my juniors who voluntarily buy such unsafe cars even after crash results are out because a person who can't value life of loved ones how can he/she be dependable for a critical assignment.
I wish you are joking, if not then this sounds quite judgmental. Like someone already mentioned, I hope you are not violating your code of business conducts at your work place by holding on to this discrimination that you mentioned.

When onwards did people start looking at star rating when making a purchase decision? And do you really think if you have a 5 star rating you are immortal. Check our accidents thread in here and you will get some data. Simple, as a pedestrian, do you walk on the street with air bags wrapped around your body?

Manufacturers fooling around with ratings and whether the quoted price is VFM for a 3 star rating is a different topic. But it looks very unpleasant when demeaning people for their personal choices without any real data or fact.

Now that, I am curious to know what you ride?

Last edited by balenoed_ : 23rd June 2022 at 23:41.
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Old 23rd June 2022, 23:35   #1092
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Originally Posted by steadfast View Post
Another day another crash test and another unsafe car.

On professional front, I have stopped delegating critical assignments to my juniors who voluntarily buy such unsafe cars even after crash results are out because a person who can't value life of loved ones how can he/she be dependable for a critical assignment.
Come on. Grow up. What kind of judgment is this? Everyone has their own priority, desire, interest etc. Let them fulfil their needs. You might have utmost priority to safety. But why do you think others who don't have that as priority is not responsible/capable. Give work and opportunity based on how they work or what they are capable of. Not on their personal lifestyle.

Have you ever not driven bike without helmet? Have you ever not taken your pillion rider in bike without helmet? Have you ever not jumped signal? Have you ever not driven without seatbelt on? Have you ever not driven on wrong side? Have you even not bought junk foods (pizza, burgers etc.,) to your kids and family? Atleast once. You might say no for the sake of the argument. But you know the truth. If you are being judged for this, and rejected opportunity, will you be okay?

I personally feel pity for your juniors.
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Old 24th June 2022, 00:05   #1093
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Originally Posted by steadfast View Post
If no alternate safe car in segment be responsible towards your loved ones and buy a safe car from lower segment or wait for couple of years and buy safe car from next segment.
Buddy, why did you buy an untested Harrier when you could've bought a proven Nexon or waited couple years to buy a CBU import or a CKD unit with a stellar safety record? Why did you take that gamble with your loved ones lives? Some might say you're irresponsible. Should your boss be relieving you of some of your duties?

I know you've got plenty of reasons as to why you chose the Harrier. Just remember that every other person have their own reasons.

Quote:
It is not discrimination but one of the several factors that reflects irresponsible mindset of an individual.
Pretty sure it's discrimination. Judging someone based on their vehicle choice on the other hand reflects an irresponsible mindset.

I sincerely hope you change your outlook especially towards your juniors.

Sorry for being blunt and going off topic.

Last edited by Keeleri_Achu : 24th June 2022 at 00:08.
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Old 24th June 2022, 01:02   #1094
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MOD NOTE : Please stick to the topic of discussion. Off topic posts would be deleted.
Thanks for support and co-operation.
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Old 25th June 2022, 18:25   #1095
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I booked the Kia Carens 1.5 Diesel Luxury Plus 7 seater on the 4th of June 2022.

The waiting period that was written in the docket was 22-23 weeks but the SA said that they will be able to get me the car within two months. After the crash ratings came out I am a bit concerned but I am not sure what other options I have.

I currently own a 2016 Maruti Ertiga ZXI+ Petrol; and when we had bought this car, it made perfect sense because our running was not very high but post Covid I had started driving to everywhere I needed to go and my work requires me to travel roughly 100 kms everyday and hence a frugal diesel made the most sense.
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