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Old 29th June 2022, 09:23   #271
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Sorry for the same themed topic which I keep asking in other threads (Nexon EV)
Quote:
Originally Posted by roby.thomas View Post
What would be the practical capabilities of these in water wading conditions.
I've to consider this always, as my area of stay is prone to this trouble.

I understand that in strong hybrid, the engine turns on and off at it's own will. Now when I drive ICE engines through some bad patches with water logging, I know to keep the engine revving a bit, so that water do not ingress through exhaust pipe (because of the exhaust gas pressure when engine is running). These bad stretch of road is very close, within 500 meters of my home. I suspect in this Hybrid car technology, engine would not even turn on in that distance. What do we do in such scenario ?
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Old 29th June 2022, 11:06   #272
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Originally Posted by ajayc123 View Post
How does the experience compare to the famous DCT German machines? Anybody?
This is an excellent question, and I would very strongly recommend you test drive it to experience it. I don't think I can do justice to it in words but will try.

I have extensively driven my VW Golf 1.5TSI DSG when in the UK, and that is what I am mainly comparing it with.
But I have also experienced the DSG a number of times in Audi 2.0 (my rental car of choice in Europe) and more recently driving a friend's Skoda Octavia .

The first and basic point is that they are not at all similar. Whilst the German DSG is nearly as smooth as it can get with gear shifts (especially down), and very quick with upshifts.
It is not comparable to having no shifts at all, which is what you get in a City eHEV.

All the cars I have mentioned above were faster in acceleration, but their engines produced more power. Even my relatively old and used Golf felt faster.

The eHEV however is different. The torque is available to you anytime you want (even in Eco mode) ... Even in the Audi 2.0 you have to think a moment before you step on it for an overtake and then the Engine electronics thinks a moment if it should downshift or not except when it is kickdown acceleration.

There is none of that fuss in the eHEV, just gently ask for acceleration, and you get it.
But it definitely does not feel fast if you don't look at the speedo. Never will it rock your head back into your seat.
If you slam the pedal, you will get the familiar Honda roar (music to most ears), but nothing else. It would have probably hit 100kmph, by then and its time to ease off.
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Old 29th June 2022, 11:22   #273
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

If I get it close, no DSG ‘jhatka’ but no significant rubberband effect either, that the erstwhile CVTs are known for. For reference, for the HC Hybrid, 0-100 kmph is 11 seconds, while the same for VW Virtus is 9 seconds. So, a tad slower.
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Old 29th June 2022, 11:53   #274
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Civic Hybrid with identical tech introduced in the UK:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/...ic-2022-review
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Old 29th June 2022, 14:01   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skarthiksr View Post
The e-Hev manual from Honda website quotes the following:

Attachment 2322846

So, I was under the assumption that the system is not designed to detect the shape of two-wheelers, but in your case it has done a perfect job in detecting the scooter. So, I am not sure whether it worked by chance or as intended. And, I believe that they meant two-wheelers in the context of term "motorcycle".

Considering that the boot capacity is a limitation of this vehicle, just curious to see whether for city rides, can we increase the boot capacity by removing the spare wheel. This would expose the battery pack(as per the image in official review page 1), so I am not sure how safe it is to do so. So, if possible, can you check how hot the battery area is at the end of your ride and update?

And thanks for sharing your experience.

There have been several expert reviews, and also owner covering many aspects of the vehicle, so I want to talk about perhaps things that haven't been discussed as much (including Karthik's question on does the battery heat up)

This is based on 900kms I have driven. 700kms between Bangalore and Chennai, and about 200 in Bangalore and Chennai.

1) Drivability

The car has superb drivability in the city.
In Bumper to Bumper traffic, leave brake hold on, play some music and forget everything going on outside. You won't hear the electric motor or the engine that might come on and off.
Keep yourself entertained watching the power flow dynamic

In free flowing City traffic, the Electric motor truly comes into its own.
All that enormous 253Nm torque available to you make overtaking a real breeze. The steering is sharp, but I personally would have preferred a heavier steering with more feedback. But it goes where you point it. I did not experience any understeer even when I tried some slightly eccentric turns at 60kmph+

At highways, there is plenty of power when you need it (even in Eco mode). More on that later. The car feels very stable at speeds upto 120-130kmph. Beyond that my wife complained a bit in the rear seat, but to me it felt fine. It definitely gets a bit loud (engine, tyre and wind) not rattly or annoying, but you begin to hear things. At 90-100 it is extremely quiet, and at 120 still very refined.

The suspension setup feels confident at high speeds, does a pretty good job dampening small pot holes etc, but does feel a bit firmer compared to petrol City in general. Ground clearance was sufficient everywhere including some very bad roads in Bangalore. Only once has the bottom scraped (it was an incredibly poor speed breaker in a service road on the Highway that I didn't notice and probably went over faster than I should have)

[u]It is very hard to objectively measure NVH without sophisticated equipment, but after my 5.5 hr non stop drive from Chennai to Bangalore and 7.5 hour (traffic) trip on the way to Chennai with a small break, I felt least tired after getting off in a long time.
There could be some bias because I am excited about this new car, but I am including driving in much better roads in Europe and US and in fairly good sedans. The sense of being on the road, grogginess after a long drive, still feeling like you are in a car (hope I am not the only one who has these) Felt none of that after spending those hours behnd the wheel in the City. Just jumped out and got on with life, I feel that's because of how refined it is /U]

It might not be a big deal for EV users, but to also pull away without any vibration or engine sound, and then see that the engine has come on per the Dash, but not realise it otherwise is pretty fascinating.

2) ADAS

The good

Well, it works most of the time. Almost always I'd say to be honest.
In the City it has worked spotlessly, keeping distance, warning me of pedestrians who might jump, motorcyclists cutting in, even once braking quicker than me when a lady on the phone panic braked ahead of a speed breaker.

On the highway, where I expected it to be better, it was slightly disappointing, but before I come to the bad, it still works really well on the highway if you define its job to mainly keep you safe.
Very accurate at detecting decently marked lanes, sensing vehicles coming into your lane (including motorcycles), keeping to your lane.
In fact I think it makes driving a touch relaxing once you get used to it and comfortable, I found Lane Keep assist particularly useful at high speeds when you don't have to be as precise with your steering as it does most of the job.

The Bad

I will try to separate the bad in the system, versus its practicality here (at least based on my perception)

The only real flaw with the system I think is that it is unncessarily aggressive in both braking and acceleration when adaptive cruise control is engaged. Changing the distance maintained ahead of the car works well, but it still is just as aggressive. It drives like a teenage boy with hard acceleration and braking (even in Eco mode) This can get annoying in an otherwise buttery smooth drive.

The other minor issue I found is that once it got crazy, applied heavy brakes and cancelled cruise control when there were a bunch of motorcyles to my left hand lane (there were no vehicles in front of me) and it got confused.
Considering it got confused once in about 1000km of driving, I am happy to give it the benefit of doubt, but the fairly hard deceleration from around 90kph to 60kph quickly could have been bad because any vehicle behind me would not have expected this erratic behaviour. I will feed this back onto the dealer (doubt if they will pass it to the engineers at Honda)

The biggest impracticality is the Lane Departure Warning system, and the fact that you can easily turn it off. But this is more bad driving habit than a flaw with the system that works as it should.
The system expects you to indicate every time you change lane, or even slightly get out of lane to avoid a motorcycle or a moron in front of you who doesn't understand lane discipline.
If you don't, be prepared to wrestle with your steering wheel.
(You actually need a decent amount of strength in your arms, imagine driving an old car without power steering here)

I would never (or very rarely) change lanes in the Europe without indicating. I have driven around 150K kms there, but have started doing it and within 100kms of driving, I am back to indicating everytime. It is a minor annoyance since you do have to shift lanes here a lot more, but if it makes us a slightly better driver and safer for all, it is worth it.
Where I find it actually annoying is when I have to slightly avoid someone driving too close to my lane or slightly in it, or in single carriageways where you have to go across the lane to overtake. It doesn't matter if it is just a moped you want to keep distance from and so take 2 feet on the oncoming lane, if you don't indicate, Lane departure will wrestle you.

You can easily turn off Lane Keep Assist with steering mounted control, but not Lane departure. Also finally if you keep disobeying it, it will turn itself off for a moment with a message that the Road Departure Mitigation System is off, which you must dismiss if you want to see anything else on the dash.

In conclusion, ADAS isn't as magical as I thought, but is still very useful. I will not turn it off. I am learning to use it better. One must keep in mind that it is dumb in a way that it only uses inputs about what this lane is. It is not fully autonomous to know anything else, so whilst you might intuitive think there's plenty of space to overtake, it will see a car in its lane and slow down. But we will learn to use this, indicate early, change lane early, cancel adaptive cruise control before it starts braking so I can time the overtake, etc. All this makes it fun and engaging, whilst also making it safer and little less stressful.

3) Fuel economy, Eco mode and B mode

Per Dash
22.3 Kmpl reading for about 160kms in Bangalore (including some very heavy traffic)
21.1 Kmpl reading for 900kms 7(00kms between Bangalore and Chennai, and about 200 in Bangalore and Chennai) overall
17.1 Kmpl on the trip from Chennai to Bangalore (uphill gradient overall) and I was doing good speeds for 30 mins or so.

I did only one tank to tank test, which had a mixed run of about 160kms in Bangalore traffic, and 250 kms of highway run. Obviously not at the same petrol pump, and it was 20.9kmpl
Until this point I had driven the car quite sedately, mostly on Eco mode, and on the highway not crossed 120kmph (was trying to be at 100kph or more)

I think these numbers are all pretty awesome, and the kind that makes you forget what the fuel economy is, and just drive.

My observations about how to get best Fuel Economy

The Eco mode in the City eHEV is just brilliant, the best I have ever experienced.
It is not dull by any means, and so can be left on all the time. Even in the eco mode, power is available if you need it when you need. Step on it and you will get power.
The normal mode is of course better, and more fun, but you will never really feel the need to turn Eco mode off unless you want to actually have fun.
In practice, the Eco mode should be your normal mode, and Eco mode off is the sport mode.

How the Eco mode is really useful (and I think really clever) is that is makes you think. It doesn't react that much to small pedal inputs almost asking a question everytime, do you really want to do that? If you persist for half a second, it will give you that power, but honestly, do you really want to jump to close that gap in traffic?

B mode - I also leave the Regen Braking mode on for most of my driving in traffic. Mostly move it to D only when I need to engage cruise control (doesn't work in B mode)

Other expert reviews have said that there is no real difference between D and B modes in the amount of regen braking. Yes that's right, but that's a good thing. You can keep B mode on all the time, and it does make a difference in the Fuel Economy. With about 70-80 km each, I have sensed at least 2kmpl difference between B and D modes. This was in Bangalore where there is more Stop Go traffic where B mode is useful vs relatively free flowing but still slow traffic in Chennai where regen braking is not that useful. Will drive more in same conditions without B mode, but I'd recommend leaving it on.

You can play with the regen brake level toggles in both D and B mode, and they are great fun and I feel really useful.
I must easily say I used the Brake pedal on the highway only 50% of the time and rest used just the regen toggles (never on cruise)
Especially a section from Chennai till Kanchipuram where there are plenty of road works and turns to shift from one set of lanes to the other I nearly never used the brake pedal using just the Brake pedal to slow down to make turns.
What a feature ! Engaging and fun, helps with fuel economy and of course the environment. My favorite on the eHEV.

4) Bootspace and Cabin

The boot space is quite acceptable, I had a large foldable baby stroller (which is about 70% the size of plane check-in bag), a cabin bag. 4 Small ish duffel bags / backpacks of varying size. One fit under the boot next to the spare wheel. These fit in without much fuss and it could fit bit more if there are bags that are of a standard shape and you plan this. Decent amount for a family trip for a few days away.

The eHEV cabin feels better and more premium compared to the regular City (I think mainly due to colour, I am not a fan of beige)

The Head Unit is not the best, but gets the job done. The only thing I really missed was a volume control knob!

There are absolutely no heating issues in the battery compartment / boot. After a straight 5.5 hr trip, the boot compartment was room temperature. The steel spare wheel straight over the batteries was not even warm, just room temperature.

I give it a thumbs up. If you can spare the cash, it is definitely worth it for a no nonsense practical sedan, that also lets you have a bit more fun than its petrol Cousin. (I consciously say Cousin and not sibling)

Last edited by Aditya : 1st July 2022 at 19:57. Reason: Bangalore to Chennai edit for FE; mention of illegal speeds
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Old 29th June 2022, 14:36   #276
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Thats a pretty detailed review, thanks a lot. The FE figures are really good. Looks like its fun driving the eHev.

Did you wife feel any bounciness in the rear seat at high speed on the highway?
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Old 29th June 2022, 18:04   #277
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I wasn't at the rear seat, but based on wife's feedback it was not fun at high speeds. She was complaining more of the fact that I had to constantly change lanes, roads weren't that empty, asking me to slow down. No complains though at 120kph. My target speed was 118 through most of the drive to avoid the continuous beeping.

Last edited by Sheel : 1st July 2022 at 11:23. Reason: Rule #11. Please go through Forum Rules in Announcement section. Thanks.
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Old 30th June 2022, 09:15   #278
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragwhos View Post
Picked up a grey eHEV in Bangalore and the experience has been surreal.

Driven it just about 80km, but here are my initial impressions.
Congrats on your new eHEV! Wish you millions of happy miles in the years to come.
eHEV is just about perfect before venturing into the electric vehicle transition and yes! the tech is amazing. If honda would have found a way to retain the boot space and ditch the digipad for a more modern infotainment system, it would have been a perfect car of the modern age. Hopefully Honda should bring the eHeV tech to other segments too before other manufacturers take advantage of it.
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Old 1st July 2022, 14:14   #279
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Honda City Hybrid Prices drop by Rs. 2.9 Lakh in Haryana.

Link
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Old 1st July 2022, 14:31   #280
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragwhos View Post
Per Dash
22.3 Kmpl reading for about 160kms in Bangalore (including some very heavy traffic)
21.1 Kmpl reading for 900kms 7(00kms between Bangalore and Chennai, and about 200 in Bangalore and Chennai) overall
17.1 Kmpl on the trip from Chennai to Bangalore (uphill gradient overall) and I was doing good speeds for 30 mins or so.
Firstly, congratulations on being a proud owner of the hi-tech Honda . Wishing you many happy miles in the car.

Those fuel economy figures, although impressive, are not astounding by any stretch. You can achieve pretty close numbers in the normal petrol City with a light foot, especially on the highways. I guess I am alluding to the idea of 'save it upfront' and get extra boot space as a concomitant. But again, what you miss out is the ADAS functions and the added tech.

Question is, is it worth forking out the extra dough for features that would be switched off most of the time on Indian roads. You being the owner now are the best person to answer that.

Last edited by Aditya : 1st July 2022 at 19:57. Reason: Quoted text edited
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Old 1st July 2022, 14:50   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragwhos View Post
17.1 Kmpl on the trip from Chennai to Bangalore (uphill gradient overall) and I was doing silly speeds on 150kph for 30 mins or so.
Congratulations on your new acquisition. The City was always a no non-sense car. The eHEV took it a couple of notches higher. Your review was crisp and straight to the point.

I really hope that 150 Kmph is a typo. If not, with due respect, I would request you not to drive at such speeds on Indian roads for your own safety. I am not judging your driving skills here, just wanted to point out that our road infrastructure might look modern at places, but are littered with jay walkers and stray animals.
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Old 1st July 2022, 15:09   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickdown View Post
Firstly, congratulations on being a proud owner of the hi-tech Honda . Wishing you many happy miles in the car.

Those fuel economy figures, although impressive, are not astounding by any stretch. You can achieve pretty close numbers in the normal petrol City with a light foot, especially on the highways. I guess I am alluding to the idea of 'save it upfront' and get extra boot space as a concomitant. But again, what you miss out is the ADAS functions and the added tech.

Question is, is it worth forking out the extra dough for features that would be switched off most of the time on Indian roads. You being the owner now are the best person to answer that.
Thanks, the city FE numbers are definitely not achievable imho even in a small efficient diesel.
Obviously because of regen braking, City eHEV has better FE in traffic than on highway. You will probably need to drive at 80kph throughout to get the same FE. City's petrol engine with the Atkinson Cycle is more efficient, but I don't think it will be dramatically more efficient when cruising on overdrive at 1500-2000rpm.

So I agree the highway mileage is nothing special. In my previous post I called it out, if that's what one's mainly looking for Honda still makes a Diesel, a good one.

I don't turn ADAS off - the adaptive cruise control as a feature (as normal cruise control) can't be used all the time. I find it useful in free flowing traffic on Outer ring road too.
In fact I find it far more useful at speeds of 40-60kph where there the car doesn't accelerate or brake that hard than on Highways.

So, the premium drivability, ADAS and fuel economy are the tangible advantages. Wow factor, environmental benefits, are bonuses.
I'd pay the premium for that, and did. But of couse not everyone's cup of tea.
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Old 3rd July 2022, 09:25   #283
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Default Re: Honda City Hybrid Review

Congratulations for the wonderful car.
Apropos the highway FE of a petrol city, albeit gen 4 that I own since 4 years, here are my observations.
The ZX auto variant's CVT is good for 100KMPH@~1900RPM compared to ~2800 RPM of manual city.
At 60-70kph on deserted covid lockdown highways, ( my 55 minute commute reduced to 40 minutes in those times despite the same top speed ) returns astounding ~28-30kmpl. Sparse morning traffic on highway can still manage 26-27 kpl at those speeds if there aren't too many inclines where she has to drop a gear or three to maintain RPM for adequete torque.
Set your cruise control to 80 and you are looking at 22 23 kmpl and 90-110kmph returns 20 ish. However these are pure highway numbers where the said speeds are being maintained.
In a practical world, the moment you encounter slow moments and enter a mixed cycle, the real word numbers reduce accordingly.
The best I got over Indore-Mumbai drive in real world daytime drive was 20.5 ( I stopped few kms after thane avoiding more city commute which would have reduced that number further. The traffic remains high after Igatpuri reducing the numbers.) The worst was 17.5. that was real world driving. Not pedal to metal, not light foot to squeeze more.
Depending on how much I have to wait on traffic signals and B2B traffic crawls, city FE of city is 8-13kmpl. 15-18 kmpl on Bhopal's wide deserted roads.
In my opinion, the hybrid may not have affected the maximum FE much but has nearly doubled the practical real world FE.
Regards.

Last edited by Entsurgeon : 3rd July 2022 at 09:28.
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Old 5th July 2022, 09:15   #284
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Congratulations on your purchase. Its definitely a machine worth owning.

One thing that intrigued me was what happens to battery after 8 years. While the company does give a warranty period of 8-years. Post that?? What would be the repair/replacement cost for such equipment, moreover would the same battery be available or technology would have changed by then? Does that mean that owners like me, who generally keep the vehicle for 10years+ unless some radical change comes in, are forced into replacing it. While i do understand 8 years is a good period, i also believe to replace only when totally necessary. Thoughts are welcome!!
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Old 5th July 2022, 15:56   #285
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Originally Posted by vkarora View Post
One thing that intrigued me was what happens to battery after 8 years. While the company does give a warranty period of 8-years. Post that?? What would be the repair/replacement cost for such equipment?
Hybrid batteries are quite small in capacity (around 1KWh) which are substantially smaller than mainstream EV batteries. These should cost around $1000 (or even less in India) to replace as per some forums. Taking into account new technologies in future, these could even be cheaper or you may have a larger capacity battery, still compatible with older car specs. This is usually the trend in any technology roadmaps.

On the contrary, a battery replacement on a proper EV car could easily exceed the depreciated price of the car.

Last edited by TheCatalyst : 5th July 2022 at 16:04. Reason: Content
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