[rajshenoy]

I get a feeling that Honda will eventually launch a ZX plus variant with ADAS and bloat the price in order to narrow the gap between hybrid and regular petrol. Only other alternative is to launch lower VX hybrid trims which will mean there are no takers to this ZX hybrid.

It could also be due to semi conductor shortage and they might eventually fill the gap with more variants.

Personally I am more keen on checking out how much the boot can be increased if we remove the spare tyre and the extra cover. If it is at least 400 ltr, it might be just sufficient

[Redline6800]

So was doing some math and the City hybrid will cost around 24.25 lakh on road in Bangalore with nil depreciation insurance (from showroom), extended warranty and RSA.

Another brick in the wall for Honda !

[Entsurgeon]

Originally Posted by sam264_2000

I drive 46km daily in Pune traffic. My ZX CVT has consistently returned 15kmpl, with a light right foot. On highways, it has touched 19.3kmpl driving with 4 adults + AC + full boot + speeds of 95kmph.

Originally Posted by Durango Dude

I have a City VX CVT and have never got figures like that!! 15kmpl urban and 19.3 kmpl highway

On highways, depending on traffic, I've had anywhere between 17.5 to 24.5 kmpl. Range varying from under construction narrow roads with diversions every now and then to deserted lockdown era 6 lanes.
In the city, depending on how much time I spend on traffic lights and bumper to bumper traffic or in the city, multi-lane, fast, top gear roads, I have got around 8 to 15 kmpl. This is a sum-up of my 70k+ in the past 4 years on my 4th gen zx CVT.

Fun calculation:

Assuming 10 kmpl in the city for ICE and 18 for hybrid and petrol at 120 INR, a gap of 8 km per litre would break even 5.5 lakhs rupees in around 85- 90 k km of pure city use of hybrid. This has excluded the interest amounts an upfront term deposit of 5.5 L would generate. If included, that would take the gap further.
Pure highway use wouldn't really make much difference in the real world. This also excludes any difference in the maintenance of the two.

Mod Note - Please proofread before posting.

[W.A.G.7]

If I am spending 24L+ on road, on a Honda City, I might as well stretch some more and get myself a better car up to 30L on the road without all this fancy hybrid tech (i.e. a conventional petrol/diesel car). At this price range, there will be a plethora of options available, either used or new ones; from BMWs, Mercs, Jeeps, Skodas, Toyotas etc. Good luck Honda, I believe this is another niche product that will have few takers in the market. Another lost opportunity for Honda.

[souvikjana83]

Simply put, I feel this is a wrong car in which Hybrid got introduced. If this would have got introduced in WRV, people might have taken it even at around ₹15 lakhs. One of the prime reason would be the 188 mm of ground clearance and lack of CVT in the WRV.

Else I think people would have still prefer the City in Hybrid form if it would come as a PHEV instead of a normal Hybrid. In form of PHEV, at least the expenses on Petrol would have been very less if the car would primarily have been used in cities since the charging of the battery would have been done using a normal charger and not using petrol. People might have happily pay the premium of 5 lakhs over the normal ZX CVT.

[M00M]

Went and saw the Honda City eHEV today. Quality of the interior fit and finish is very very good. It is way better than what Skoda gives in its Kushaq or its Slavia and what Hyundai gives in the Verna.

Was worried about the boot being small but a full size wheelchair fits inside it. If I were to talk in luggage terms I think 2 large bags and maybe 1 or 2 duffle bags will fit in as well. Thats enough for a weekend trip.

The rear legroom is far better than any competitor. The only downside I find missing is an upgraded HU and camera resolution otherwise I was very impressed with what I saw today. Wireless charger though convenient heats the phone up and ventilated seats are a no no for me as I dont want to smell the BO from my driver.

I always worry what will stray dogs and cats or other animals do when a Hybrid or EV is going by, and I am very glad to hear that Honda has provided the City eHEV with a small external noise which can alert animals as well as pedestrians of a vehicle coming up near them. Thank You Honda for this.

I dont wish to say anything about the Honda bashing on this thread with regards to the pricing, I would have preferred the price to be a lac cheaper or even more (the more money I save the merrier) but I would like to repeat what Hon. Min Gadkari said in Parliament recently, he said that they are striving to provide us with clean, smooth, fast roads and are charging a hefty toll so that the amount you save on petrol can be given to the GOI in the form of the same toll, meaning money is going from your pocket in one way or the other and keeping this in mind and in my experience when petrol price goes up in our country it seldom comes down, keeping this in mind when the price of petrol starts rising again to maybe even 150 the eHEV will be a welcome vehicle, even at 120 which is in no way cheap an EV or a eHEV is welcome and its Honda's way of reiterating what Hon. Min. said and meant, same way Honda wants the money you save upfront to help you use that tech. Lithium battery is a welcome addition instead of the Ni-Mh battery in Toyota. I even saw the other ADAS functions and I think all of them are a very welcome addition.

A fellow Bhpian has said that he has recovered 15 km/ltr in city - I have never recovered that in any of my City's, infact even the Brio AT does not give 15, it gives only 10-11 and 14 on the highway. My old City being manual gave me 9-11 in the city and 14-15 on the highway. If the eHEV gives 20 in the city and around the same on the highway then nothing can beat having the benefit of AT and good fuel efficiency.

Will be booking the City eHEV in the next few days unless I find a specific pre owned vehicle that I am looking for, if not its the eHEV and hopefully delivery is also soon.

[z_3en]

It's great to see how well the hybrid city has in all its being been dissected above. But I (not a Honda fanboy) believe that Honda's priority with this vehicle is testing and understanding the relationship the system forms with this sort of an environment. I mean yes, they have to sell sufficient to retrieve the input cost but being this enormous company that has been operating in the country for so long now makes it highly unlikely they got the price wrong. I feel it's on purpose and that they realise that this wont be a voluminous seller here. But they still did it to test how the customer engages with their hybrid and how the future can be planned. Just a viewpoint

[VALLURIS]

No wonder we see so many Seltos/Creta's in Bangalore.

All companies are launching vehicles with such over the top pricings it makes Hyundai cousins look VFM for their SUV's.

MG ZS EV is cheaper than Honda City EHV !!!!

Does automobile companies do any market research before coming with such prices or they just go with trend of higher prices for small cars.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by amalji

There is a DC to DC Voltage converter which steps down the 200V DC to 14V DC. This is then used to charge the 12V battery as there is no conventional alternator on a Hybrid vehicle to charge the 12V battery.

• It also has a DC to DC voltage converter which steps down the 200V DC to 14V DC and this is used to charge the 12V battery.

After seeing your post and doing more research, I'm not 100% sure if this stepped down voltage is also used for powering the accessories or is it taken from the 12V battery. In a reference video by "The Car Care Nut", he mentions that after starting the High Voltage Circuit, you can throw away the 12 V battery and things will still work. But, he is not very specific on where the accessories draws the current from once the high voltage circuitry comes up.

I thought about this a bit. It seems the 14V output from the DC-DC Voltage converter which sources the power from Lithium Ion / Ni MH is in a parallel circuit with the 12v battery. Since the voltage is slightly higher than the 12v battery, the discharge to accessory should happen from the Lithium ion battery rather than from the 12v battery.

In case, the City Hybrid doesn't have an alternator and sources the charging current for the 12V battery from Lithium ion battery, it has to work the same way there as well.

And it makes sense to use the Lithium ion for powering everything once the high voltage battery circuit comes on since Lithium ion battery efficiency is around 15 - 20 % higher than the lead acid batteries. The power losses involved with charging on Lithium ion battery is almost negligible.

[souvikjana83]

Come to think of it, if we add all the additional features that the Hybrid is coming with to the normal ZX Petrol CVT, it would have added around ₹2 lakhs for the ADAS features (taking the example of Astor). So ideally the hybrid system cost is around ₹3 lakhs.

I wish the Hybrid would have got introduced in the lower versions like V and VX. It would have given a better understanding of the pricing to everyone.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by souvikjana83

Come to think of it, if we add all the additional features that the Hybrid is coming with to the normal ZX Petrol CVT, it would have added around ₹2 lakhs for the ADAS features (taking the example of Astor). So ideally the hybrid system cost is around ₹3 lakhs.

Man, Honda’s marketing people will certainly pray for more people to have that thought!

There is no comparison between Honda’s ADAS and the one being offered by MG and other manufacturers. Honda uses a single front camera. The system has limited resolution/ability and can get compromised by rain, fog, at night or simply with a dirty windscreen. It has to be used with a lot of discretion. They had to modify the wipers to provide coverage over the windshield area directly in front of the camera lens, to keep it clean. Others use more advanced systems with multiple cameras, sensors as well as radar, which remains unaffected by the vagaries of weather and light.

[tanbeamer]

Originally Posted by skyocean

Its very nice to see Honda upping the game with Hybrid. Hope the other manufacturers will follow. All that said and done, that one thing preventing me from buying a Honda is their step motherly treatment towards the Indian customers. 4 star NCAP rating for a 20 Lakh car is a rip off to be honest. Although they are better than brands like Hyundai/Kia, as it’s a Honda we were expecting better ethics here which we cannot expect from the later. Hope they do something about it soon.

1. Honda City 5th gen is an untested product in Global NCAP. The ASEAN Spec is rated 5 stars in the ASEAN NCAP. It was the 4th gen (which is for 11 lakhs OTR) that was rated 4 stars

2. None of the tested Honda cars have done poorly in NCAPs so it would be unfair to utter the name of this brand in the same breath as Kia and Hyundai, who are happily selling their 3-star (which was by the barest of margins) NCAP rated crossover

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Man, Honda’s marketing people will certainly pray for more people to have that thought!

There is no comparison between Honda’s ADAS and the one being offered by MG and other manufacturers. Honda uses a single front camera. The system has limited resolution/ability and can get compromised by rain, fog, at night or simply with a dirty windscreen. It has to be used with a lot of discretion. They had to modify the wipers to provide coverage over the windshield area directly in front of the camera lens, to keep it clean. Others use more advanced systems with multiple cameras, sensors as well as radar, which remains unaffected by the vagaries of weather and light.

Is there any study that says so ( that MG's ADAS is better than Honda's ) which I can refer to ?

At the same time, I can see articles on why Tesla ditched the radar technology for their latest offerings. Reference link
PS: The article interprets Tesla's decisions as a mistake. But, there should be some solid reason why Tesla made those calls and which is not revealed outside ( risks of litigation from current owners of the technology )

Even Honda ditched their old Radar + Camera setup to camera only offerings on their latest offerings. For all we know, this might be safer than the Radar tech used on MG especially on unpredictable roads like in India where object classification is of utmost importance. Someone has to do a proper comparison to get this analyzed. Maybe, radar might make a come back later to these brands when the technology gets better. But, when it's a question about automation features vs safety, big and reputed brands will choose safety for obvious reasons.

Another interesting article on the same topic with no conclusions.

Another interesting one.

Quoting a few relevant points from the article.

1. Different sensors have different strengths and weaknesses. Having more sensors is not necessarily better because when sensors disagree, the computer still must prioritize one sensor over the others. Which sensor should be king?

2. While radar is especially good for “seeing” when vision is blocked, its weakness in perception/interpretation limits its overall usefulness.

3. Cameras can be taught to do what radar excels at doing -- gauging the distance of surrounding objects.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by skyocean

4 star NCAP rating for a 20 Lakh car is a rip off to be honest.

That was the fourth-generation City they tested. During the City hybrid launch Honda projected five stars based on their internal testing, I asked Global NCAP about this, their response was along the lines of "there are likely much poorer performers that are a priority" but they confirmed Honda have not approached them for testing and are wrong to make a claim like this. I would not be surprised to see the newer Hondas score five, even the SaferCarsForAfrica test on a made-in-India Amaze showed performance good enough for five stars (adult) but was marked down for not having double seatbelt reminders. In any case I don't think Honda, VW etc. would settle for a low result, at least for a new model. Not worth the embarrassment.

The smaller Honda Jazz for example barely lost out on five stars because the Indian one doesn't have pretensioners (they help with kneemapping). The newer Hondas get them.

[IP_Man]

Originally Posted by amalji

But, I am hoping that it will outlast the car provided the filter for air intake to the battery compartment is maintained well.

How does it matters to the battery life? Is it something to do with batt. temp?

AFAIK battery is cooled by liquid coolant.